Article: The Twins Bullpen Is Set (And You’re Not Going To Love It)

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

5.02 ERA
1.63 hr/9
1.45 whip
10 h/9

Are bigger signs of failure imo.

No doubt, he had issues. But would you rather trot him out there again and see what happens? Or cut him to add a warm body like Wimmers?  That's the choice we face today.

[DocBauer]

The Belisle signing was "solid". Breslow was a cheap flier that may work out. I simply HAVE to believe this bullpen is a deliberate "see what we have and how it shakes out and who stays and who goes when some kids start coming up" move by the new FO.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Belisle signing was "solid". Breslow was a cheap flier that may work out. I simply HAVE to believe this bullpen is a deliberate "see what we have and how it shakes out and who stays and who goes when some kids start coming up" move by the new FO.

Which looks suspiciously like the strategy of the old FO too...

[Vanimal46]

 

No doubt, he had issues. But would you rather trot him out there again and see what happens? Or cut him to add a warm body like Wimmers?  That's the choice we face today.

 

Too bad 26 year old Melotakis and 26 year old Trevor Hildenberger are simply too young to pitch in the lowest leverage innings like Tonkin.... 

[Brandon]

TR did get Pressly in the rule 5 and seveloped Tonkin and finally Wimmers who starts in AAA. The new regeme did get Haley in rule 5 so they are getting talent just not great talent at this point. That is on the way so im not too disappointed cause these guys can suffice till the guns start making their way up. Would have liked to see Chargois up but he did give up lots of hits. Was he working on some pitches or make mistakes....

[ThejacKmp]

 

I have a bit of hope for Tonkin, if he's used in 1 inning bursts....call me naive and overly hopeful, but I do.

 

Hayley is long relief so Tonkin seems like a 1 inning guy for now . . . 

[ThejacKmp]

 

The Belisle signing was "solid". Breslow was a cheap flier that may work out. I simply HAVE to believe this bullpen is a deliberate "see what we have and how it shakes out and who stays and who goes when some kids start coming up" move by the new FO.

 

Excited about Breslow. He may wash out but he seems like a guy you could trade for something decent at the deadline if he has a nice year. There's always a market for LH relievers and Breslow has "playoff experience" and "veteran savvy." Might get an okay prospect and make way for a younger guy.

[TheLeviathan]

Ugh.

[bighat]

 

Ugh, why are we rolling with 30 somethings in the bullpen when we wont contend? Wimmers, shaggy and mejia should be on this team, but I'm guessing Duffey will be the 5th starter and we'll keep DanSan

 

I'm pretty depressed, as I also am guessing Duffey's going to be our 5th starter instead of Mejia.  It would be nice if the Twins gave us at least ONE prospect to be excited about.  The brass loves to bring up "confidence" as a reason to demote top prospects.  But what about "experience"?   The Royals let Zack Greinke go 5-17 with a 5.80 ERA his 2nd year.  Why not let Berrios or Mejia (or BOTH) just get out there and figure it out?  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Too bad 26 year old Melotakis and 26 year old Trevor Hildenberger are simply too young to pitch in the lowest leverage innings like Tonkin.... 

I think Melotakis was slowed by injury early in camp, no?  And Hildenberger ended last year with some elbow issues and isn't on the 40-man.  And neither has pitched in AAA yet.  I think it makes sense to let them both debut at AAA to open the season.

 

I fully admit Tonkin shouldn't hold those guys back in a month or two, or even hold back a decent waiver claim starting today, but at present time, he's the most logical option to occupy that bullpen spot.

[drjim]

It's bad. My main complaint is they really could have aimed higher with their FA acquisition. Take someone with an upside with the promise of closing opportunities (ahem, Holland or Feliz or Casilla or Romo, etc). 

 

I think entering with a FA closer and setup of Pressly, Rogers, Kintzler would look better.

 

Going to be an interesting year of lots of guys getting a crack at different roles.

[Vanimal46]

 

I think Melotakis was slowed by injury early in camp, no?  And Hildenberger ended last year with some elbow issues and isn't on the 40-man.  And neither has pitched in AAA yet.  I think it makes sense to let them both debut at AAA to open the season.

 

I fully admit Tonkin shouldn't hold those guys back in a month or two, or even hold back a decent waiver claim starting today, but at present time, he's the most logical option to occupy that bullpen spot.

 

I get where you're coming from spy... Frankly I'm frustrated that this is all they have to work with. 

[Deduno Abides]

This bullpen makes me think Falvey is jealous that Luhnow got to tear the Astros down to the studs when he took over. Why spend on a bullpen to go from 69 to 76 wins? He must hope that next year's bullpen includes Pressly, Rogers, Chargois, Jay, Burdi, Hildenberger, Curtiss and a good free agent. Maybe Reed will figure it out and pitch himself into consideration. Others with a shot are Baxendale and Wheeler. Breslow can be some kind of spin doctor as a retired player. It's all about next year.

[Willihammer]

Kinda wonder if last winter Falvine were counting on Perkins being ready by now.

[laloesch]

 

I will give the new FO a pass on this one. You can't make a good chicken salad if you are starting with chicken sh##. The young guys weren't quite ready and until we show improvement What vet wants to sign with us. This bullpen will be totally turned over by the mid season mark. I am hopeful that the new FO is looking at this with the approach of evaluate as we go and then make the harder decisions. Our young guys aren't quite ready but they will be solid.

 

interesting analogy.  i concur.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This bullpen makes me think Falvey is jealous that Luhnow got to tear the Astros down to the studs when he took over. Why spend on a bullpen to go from 69 to 76 wins? He must hope that next year's bullpen includes Pressly, Rogers, Chargois, Jay, Burdi, Hildenberger, Curtiss and a good free agent. Maybe Reed will figure it out and pitch himself into consideration. Others with a shot are Baxendale and Wheeler. Breslow can be some kind of spin doctor as a retired player. It's all about next year.

 

next year, next year, next year.......been reading that here for three years now. 

 

Remember when people debated if the Cubs or Astros were ahead of the Twins, just last year? Good times.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It's bad. My main complaint is they really could have aimed higher with their FA acquisition. Take someone with an upside with the promise of closing opportunities (ahem, Holland or Feliz or Casilla or Romo, etc). 

 

I think entering with a FA closer and setup of Pressly, Rogers, Kintzler would look better.

 

Going to be an interesting year of lots of guys getting a crack at different roles.

 

 

I get where you're coming from spy... Frankly I'm frustrated that this is all they have to work with. 

 

I agree with all of this.  Belisle was kind of a "meh" way to commit a bullpen spot, with Kintzler already in the fold, not to mention Pressly.  Plus Breslow?  Plus Haley?

 

We should have been able to target some kind of upside there instead, and still give Tonkin one last shot if no one else pushed him aside this spring.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Kinda wonder if last winter Falvine were counting on Perkins being ready by now.

I hope not. There was nothing to really suggest that was going to happen, or that it would be a good thing.

[drjim]

 

Kinda wonder if last winter Falvine were counting on Perkins being ready by now.

 

I doubt it. This was the plan, for better or worse.

[joey emerson]

i think i would rather go with twins AAA bullpen with Chargois, Melotakis, Reed and Wimmers or even the twins AA bullpen with Burdi, Hildenberger, Jay, Rosario, Peterson, Jones and Bard then what the twins are going out there with. Kintzler, Breslow,  and Belisle all 1 year guys haley is a ? tonkin just a place holder the only 2 with any value after this year are rogers and pressly 

Edited March 29, 2017 by joey emerson

[savvyspy]

I don't know what to make of the FO. We've been sold that they understand the modern game, will rely on analytics, and won't be afraid to make the needed changes.

 

Basically their entire off season and spring training says they are basically counting on one thing and one thing only:

 

That its statistically hard to lose 103 games two years in a row

 

How these owners can ask fans to pay for this dreck with a straight face is beyond me. But I supposed you have to give the new guys time and all that..... 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Twins manager Paul Molitor seems to understand this. “I think we’re going to have to do some mixing and matching towards the end,” said Molitor last week, “with Kintzler on the backside, so, we’ll see how it goes.”

Don't have the source handy, but I'm pretty sure I heard Falvey say that the Twins will be getting away from having roles defined as "set-up guy" and "closer." So once again, mixed signals.

[gocgo]

I'm with spycake.  I jumped off the Tonkin bandwagon quite a while back.  He isn't fooling anyone with the heater and no one is swinging at the hook.  His fastball has no movement...other than moving into the seats rather quickly.

[Deduno Abides]

next year, next year, next year.......been reading that here for three years now. 

 

Remember when people debated if the Cubs or Astros were ahead of the Twins, just last year? Good times.

Sorry, but unless they can trade Gibson for two pitchers who turn into Jake Arrieta and Pedro Strop, then sign a $100M+ free agent starter as good as Jon Lester, then have two of Buxton, Sano and Kepler become as good as Bryant and Rizzo, and then maybe find an All Star caliber shortstop, there won't be much "this year" and the bullpen is not going to make a difference. If you want something to hope for "this year," hopefully the pitchers in the minors we've been oversold on will become good this year, but none of the relievers have shown they're ready yet and we've seen too many players wasted by being rushed.

 

In my mind, there are only three players in the minors close to ready to contribute in the majors: Berrios, Mejia and Granite, and only Berrios can even dream of being an All Star. Wheeler and Garver come next, but they are unlikely to be large contributors. Vielma could be nice, but let's see how he hits in AAA. Of the relievers, let the competition begin.

[Nick Nelson]

 

Tonkin has been given an extensive amount of rope, and he is what he is a AAAA, please get released guy. It is not a matter of if, it is when they release him for failing to get runners out. 

He has been given one full season, during which he was working in an unfamiliar role but still piled up the most strikeout of any Twins reliever since prime Joe Nathan.

 

People lament the Twins not giving young guys chances, lament the lack of velocity and strikeouts, then are so quick to give up on a dude after a bit of turbulence. His ERA was around 3 in mid-June before an unprecedented workload began to catch up with him.

 

And again, who is he holding back? Chargois can be called up at any time. They didn't lose anyone to keep him, whereas they would have lost him to keep someone else. 

[Deduno Abides]

He has been given one full season, during which he was working in an unfamiliar role but still piled up the most strikeout of any Twins reliever since prime Joe Nathan.

 

People lament the Twins not giving young guys chances, lament the lack of velocity and strikeouts, then are so quick to give up on a dude after a bit of turbulence. His ERA was around 3 in mid-June before an unprecedented workload began to catch up with him.

 

And again, who is he holding back? Chargois can be called up at any time. They didn't lose anyone to keep him, whereas they would have lost him to keep someone else.

 

Agreed. For better or worse (actually, only for worse), Tonkin is not holding anyone back. As a fan, you have to hope that changes, but because people look good in AAA and AA, not because Tonkin looks bad.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He has been given one full season, during which he was working in an unfamiliar role but still piled up the most strikeout of any Twins reliever since prime Joe Nathan.

 

People lament the Twins not giving young guys chances, lament the lack of velocity and strikeouts, then are so quick to give up on a dude after a bit of turbulence. His ERA was around 3 in mid-June before an unprecedented workload began to catch up with him.

 

And again, who is he holding back? Chargois can be called up at any time. They didn't lose anyone to keep him, whereas they would have lost him to keep someone else. 

 

And yet, that same manager is in charge of his usage this year.....I hope he's learned.

[spinowner]

I agree with Tonkin being cast as a AAAA player. I don't know the detailed stats about his HR's allowed, but I suspect a high percentage of those were off his fastball. We've heard for years that his fastball is straight, and apparently nothing any of the Twins pitching coaches has tried has helped. Not many minor leaguers can do much with a straight 97, but there are a lot of MLB players who can hit them very very far.

That said, I suppose it's not that big of a deal whether he gets one more chance with us or not.

[caninatl04]

 

I will give the new FO a pass on this one. You can't make a good chicken salad if you are starting with chicken sh##. The young guys weren't quite ready and until we show improvement What vet wants to sign with us. This bullpen will be totally turned over by the mid season mark. I am hopeful that the new FO is looking at this with the approach of evaluate as we go and then make the harder decisions. Our young guys aren't quite ready but they will be solid.

 

I agree 100%. 2017 will be a lost season anyway.  I don't see the upside in going out and signing multi-year contracts for relief pitchers that would increase the wins total from, say 74 to 78-79.

 

I'm writing this year off as a "learning" year for the front office. 

 

More than seeing how many of the young studs pitch (for more than the proverbial cup-o'-coffee) in the Bigs, I would concentrate on what Rochester's bullpen looks like in mid-August.  How many of the stacked AA pitching staff will progress to AAA?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Tonkin can get another shot. The home runs are concerning but among 2016 qualifiers, he has decent swing/miss rates going for him.