Article: Tyler Jay Shifting To The Bullpen (Minor League Notebook)

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Concur. The guy who made that pick is gone. Sucks, but it is what it is.

I hope they never take another reliever with the idea of making him a starter again. Every single one failed.

Agreed. Jay now should be able to move through the system pretty quickly and give us a quality arm in the BP... unless he gets the Nick Burdi sydrome. NO!!!!!!

[DaveW]

I for one am shocked that the Twins took the obvious wrong player in the first round at it backfired on them miserably.

 

Revere, Hicks, Jay, Gibson, etc

 

Worst front office in all of sports the last decade.

[DaveW]

yeah, not sure about why they are making the move so soon... and if he's a reliever, that is very a much a wasted pick.

Funny thing is the guy picked one spot behind is now the #1 prospect in all of baseball.

[Old Twins Cap]

Nah, this makes sense though. 

 

Bring Jay up quickly and let him deal with MLB hitters. 

 

NOthing wrong with that.  If, in the end, he has the stuff and make-up and the stamina to be a starter, it won't be missed or ignored.  He can rise to his level this way.

 

On the draft, yeah, prolly Twins were swayed by their own need for a lefty thrower.  How that got translated to Jay is another question.

 

To a carpenter, every solution involves a hammer.

[jud6312]

 

Before the draft: "Just give me the PITCHER with the highest upside".

After it doesn't work out: "#@&$%@$&^%#"

Was he really that guy though? I honestly don't remember him being thought of as a steal at #6. I seem to recall him being rated in the mid-teens, behind a few guys that went after him. 

 

Followup question: how often does a a college reliever become a frontline rotation piece? Common or a longshot?

 

 

[DaveW]

This team is gonna be terrible this year and likely next, why exactly do we need to rush Jay to the majors to pitch out of the bullpen again?

 

This org continues to appear to have absolutely no clue in what they are doing, and the results continue to show it.

[twinssouth]

Great news on Stewart, seems short sighted on Jay and Twins part. Season hasn't even started yet and the kids going to the pen

[DaveW]

Was he really that guy though? I honestly don't remember him being thought of as a steal at #6. I seem to recall him being rated in the mid-teens, behind a few guys that went after him.

 

Followup question: how often does a a college reliever become a frontline rotation piece? Common or a longshot?

It's dumb, the Twins continue to try this failed method time and time again, just like they did when they were obsessed with drafting undersized, zero pop hitters like revere 50 picks too early.

[old nurse]

If Jay's ceiling as a reliever is elite then it is still not a wasted pick. Is a shutdown reliever a valued commodity?

[jud6312]

 

It's dumb, the Twins continue to try this failed method time and time again, just like they did when they were obsessed with drafting undersized, zero pop hitters like revere 50 picks too early.

Who'd you like better, Denard Garbe or Aaron Revere? 

[DaveW]

If Jay's ceiling as a reliever is elite then it is still not a wasted pick. Is a shutdown reliever a valued commodity?

He better reach that ceiling then.

 

Color me very very skeptical in the meantime.

 

Elite closer or bust I guess?

[jud6312]

 

If Jay's ceiling as a reliever is elite then it is still not a wasted pick. Is a shutdown reliever a valued commodity?

The point isn't that it's not a nice piece to have, but not with the 6th pick in the draft. That's where you should be finding your heart of the order and top of the rotation, not a new version of Norm Charlton.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Yeah but those guys you're thinking of were, you know, starters before they were called up and sent to the pen.

Thinking that Jay, who hasn't pitched more than 83 innings in a season would transition back to a starter is IMO, preposterous.

I underestimated how many innings he has actually thrown, so you are probably right. However I was thinking several years into the future. Still probably not likely.

[DaveW]

The point isn't that it's not a nice piece to have, but not with the 6th pick in the draft. That's where you should be finding your heart of the order and top of the rotation, not a new version of Norm Charlton.

+1

 

I have also always found it weird that if a guy wasn't good enough to crack a college rotation...why on earth do people think he will be good enough to crack a major league rotation? I mean I guess it would only make sense if the guy was either a super super super late bloomer or on an all time great college team or something...

[jud6312]

Don't get me wrong, I hope Tyler becomes the next Billy Wagner, and he, Burdi, Chargois and Reed have to have a Royal Rumble-style contest every game to see who gets to come in and strike out the side to secure another win.

 

I just wish he didn't have to come to it by way of an early draft pick.

[ashbury]

Was he really that guy though? I honestly don't remember him being thought of as a steal at #6. I seem to recall him being rated in the mid-teens, behind a few guys that went after him. 

 

Followup question: how often does a a college reliever become a frontline rotation piece? Common or a longshot?

I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time.

 

I just acknowledge what I see as an attempt to crack the conundrum of going for high ceiling in an area of chronic need while still getting a high floor after pick #1 or 2. Look at the history of #6 picks - they are not guaranteed studs. Instead of a high school arm that results in nothing (the risk they bear with Kohl Stewart for instance), they have a talented reliever. Or at least, in theory. The criticism in extreme terms now that Plan B is invoked seems overwrought.

[jud6312]

 

I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time.

 

I just acknowledge what I see as an attempt to crack the conundrum of going for high ceiling in an area of chronic need while still getting a high floor after pick #1 or 2. Look at the history of #6 picks - they are not guaranteed studs. Instead of a high school arm that results in nothing (the risk they bear with Kohl Stewart for instance), they have a talented reliever. Or at least, in theory. The criticism in extreme terms now that Plan B is invoked seems overwrought.

I think it's just that it seems to be happening so early in his career. Fad he been given more time to start and either fail or continue experiencing arm fatigue, or whatever we want to call it, people wouldn't be so critical of the pick.

 

It just feels rushed and/or an indication that, despite what both sides are saying, they don't think his arm will work in the rotation.

 

The other problem I have with this is that it's being done under the guise of getting him to MN quickly. While most/all of the other young arms are seemingly being brought along slowly, why are we to believe that Jay is the exception? He's had arm "issues," so why are his issues not as big of a deal as Burdi's or Romero's?

 

The whole thing just seems weird to me.

[DaveW]

Yeah, god forbid we criticize a team that has exactly one good first round pick in the last 10 or so years, and a team that has been the worst team in baseball overall the last six years. Especially when most people at the time pointed out that drafting a college reliever that high was a very very very questionable decision.

Edited March 19, 2017 by DaveW

[Thrylos]

 

Yeah, god forbid we criticize a team that has exactly one good first round pick in the last 10 or so years,

 

Whodat?

[DaveW]

Whodat?

Buxton

 

Gordon, Stewart and the kid last year COULD be good as well, too early to tell though.

 

Clear though that Revere, hicks, Parmelee, Gutierrez, Gibson, michael, wimmers were all massive misses. Jay is a miss so far as well since he is already going to the pen

[Taildragger8791]

Yeah, I don't buy that he'll ever be converted back to a starter once he's entrenched in the bullpen. It takes years to build up to a 200+ inning season. Assuming he stayed healthy he was 4 years away from getting to 200 as it is. Going back to the bullpen would stall or undo that progress.

 

Not to mention if he succeeds in becoming elite it'll be one heck of a gutsy move to take him out of the bullpen on the off chance he can replicate that success in the rotation. You better be right when you make a call like that.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think it's just that it seems to be happening so early in his career. Fad he been given more time to start and either fail or continue experiencing arm fatigue, or whatever we want to call it, people wouldn't be so critical of the pick.

 

It just feels rushed and/or an indication that, despite what both sides are saying, they don't think his arm will work in the rotation.

 

The other problem I have with this is that it's being done under the guise of getting him to MN quickly. While most/all of the other young arms are seemingly being brought along slowly, why are we to believe that Jay is the exception? He's had arm "issues," so why are his issues not as big of a deal as Burdi's or Romero's?

 

The whole thing just seems weird to me.

I think the days of young Twins pitchers grinding out season after season in the minors are done. It will be much more case-by-case going forward.

 

The old front office should have known about drafting Jay and trying to make him into a starter. The new front office at least is correcting course right away.

[jud6312]

 

I think the days of young Twins pitchers grinding out season after season in the minors are done. It will be much more case-by-case going forward.

The old front office should have known about drafting Jay and trying to make him into a starter. The new front office at least is correcting course right away.

I hope you're right, and at times I think you are. Then guys like Breslow and Vogelsong are brought in and I'm left scratching my head. If there's one place that veteran JAGs aren't needed, it would seem to be in the bullpen/back of the rotation.

 

[Willihammer]

Tweet from Doogie:

 

https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/843247131142033408

This is all perfectly consistent with the Twins standing policy of developing players in one role in the minors, and changing it at the ML level.

 

Don't see what all the hubbubs about.

[Thrylos]

 

Buxton

Gordon, Stewart and the kid last year COULD be good as well, too early to tell though.

Clear though that Revere, hicks, Parmelee, Gutierrez, Gibson, michael, wimmers were all massive misses. Jay is a miss so far as well since he is already going to the pen

 

Gibson will be ok.  Surer thing than Buxton at this point.

 

 

[Taildragger8791]

 

Buxton

Gordon, Stewart and the kid last year COULD be good as well, too early to tell though.

Clear though that Revere, hicks, Parmelee, Gutierrez, Gibson, michael, wimmers were all massive misses. Jay is a miss so far as well since he is already going to the pen

 

I wouldn't call Revere a miss, even if he did have some deficiencies. Getting an elite defensive CF with excellent baserunning skills with the 28th pick is about as good as you can expect to do. He'll probably end up with a lengthy MLB career for a reason.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I hope you're right, and at times I think you are. Then guys like Breslow and Vogelsong are brought in and I'm left scratching my head. If there's one place that veteran JAGs aren't needed, it would seem to be in the bullpen/back of the rotation.

I don't get it with the replacement level veterans, either.

 

One thing about Cleveland when Falvey was there, was they seemed to promote guys by what was best for the player. The example is reliever Cody Allen, who was a 20th round pick, but was promoted through the minors about as fast as humanly possible with no ill effect. So obviously they saw something in Allen and didn't let the memory of his draft round cloud their judgment. I bet if Jay thrives again as a reliever and stays healthy there's a 50/50 chance we see him in MLB this season.

[DaveW]

I wouldn't call Revere a miss, even if he did have some deficiencies. Getting an elite defensive CF with excellent baserunning skills with the 28th pick is about as good as you can expect to do. He'll probably end up with a lengthy MLB career for a reason.

The prob with Revere is his ceiling was always a "meh" 4th/5th OF type. He has reached that ceiling which is fine, but never should have been a first round pick to begin with. He had negative 1.2 WAR last year, so not sure he is going to have too much longer of a career....

[DaveW]

Gibson will be ok. Surer thing than Buxton at this point.

He's a #5 basically. You need to do better with your first round picks.

[Taildragger8791]

The prob with Revere is his ceiling was always a "meh" 4th/5th OF type. He has reached that ceiling which is fine, but never should have been a first round pick to begin with. He had negative 1.2 WAR last year, so not sure he is going to have too much longer of a career....

Well he's signed this year so he'll at least end up at 9 years in the majors. I think he'll get a few more as long as his speed holds up.

 

I can't fault the Twins when there wasn't anybody drafted right after him that did anything at all. It's just not that likely to find a high caliber starter there unless it's a deep draft.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Taildragger8791