Article: Twins Position Battles: Backup Catcher

[nicksaviking]

 

Hmmm, going with Gimenez makes more sense when framed this way.

 

But it also makes the Jason Castro signing make less sense in my view.

 

Why are the Twins signing two veteran free agent catchers for the 25-man when they need to find a long-term solution? Forget about Gimenez, I want Garver, Murphy or mystery door #3 to at least have a shot to overtake Castro by next year if not earlier.

 

I'm fine with the Castro signing, but it's not like he's so good that the team shouldn't be actively looking for a young guy as an improvement.

[caninatl04]

 

Veterans: Mauer, Dozier, Escobar, Castro, ESan, Gibson, Santiago, most of the bullpen. Who are they mentoring, exactly?

 

So, we just wait until Garver is 27/28 before he comes up? 

Less "mentoring", more game calling.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But it also makes the Jason Castro signing make less sense in my view.

 

Why are the Twins signing two veteran free agent catchers for the 25-man when they need to find a long-term solution? Forget about Gimenez, I want Garver, Murphy or mystery door #3 to at least have a shot to overtake Castro by next year if not earlier.

 

I'm fine with the Castro signing, but it's not like he's so good that the team shouldn't be actively looking for a young guy as an improvement.

I don't really disagree but Castro is signed for three years. Garver doesn't have to start 2017 in Minnesota to potentially replace Castro three years from now.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't really disagree but Castro is signed for three years. Garver doesn't have to start 2017 in Minnesota to potentially replace Castro three years from now.

 

Does anyone think Castro is catching most games in year three of that deal? And while he doesn't have to replace him, he should probably play some before he has to. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Does anyone think Castro is catching most games in year three of that deal? And while he doesn't have to replace him, he should probably play some before he has to. 

Sure, but Garver could easily get reps in both 2018 and early 2019 before taking full-time duties at catcher.

 

I'm not terribly keen on the idea of Gimenez making the 25-man roster but if he's good with pitchers, I won't get too upset about it, either. This pitching staff needs all the help it can get and given the relative offensive stability of the roster, sacrificing some offense to help that beleaguered staff makes some sense.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sure, but Garver could easily get reps in both 2018 and early 2019 before taking full-time duties at catcher.

 

I'm not terribly keen on the idea of Gimenez making the 25-man roster but if he's good with pitchers, I won't get too upset about it, either. This pitching staff needs all the help it can get and given the relative offensive stability of the roster, sacrificing some offense to help that beleaguered staff makes some sense.

 

Legit question I am asking myself.....if Berrios is in AAA, and May is a RP, do I actually care about any of this SP staff 2-3 years from now?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Legit question I am asking myself.....if Berrios is in AAA, and May is a RP, do I actually care about any of this SP staff 2-3 years from now?

No.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No.

 

Then do I care if Gimenez is here helping the pitchers?

 

I still vote no.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Then do I care if Gimenez is here helping the pitchers?

 

I still vote no.

I will be immensely disappointed if at least one of Berrios and May is not in the rotation on Opening Day.

 

And I hope it's May because once he's in the bullpen, he's in the bullpen for the season. Hard to move a guy back into the rotation without a demotion to Rochester first.

 

And if Berrios is in Rochester to start the season, he better be back in Minnesota by late May because you know at least one of those starters is going to light himself on fire to start the season.

 

And Gimenez will be here the entire season (provided things work out), which means he may be catching several other young guys who come up during the season.

 

Like I said, I'm not terribly keen on the idea but I get it.

[nicksaviking]

 

Sure, but Garver could easily get reps in both 2018 and early 2019 before taking full-time duties at catcher.

 

I'm not terribly keen on the idea of Gimenez making the 25-man roster but if he's good with pitchers, I won't get too upset about it, either. This pitching staff needs all the help it can get and given the relative offensive stability of the roster, sacrificing some offense to help that beleaguered staff makes some sense.

 

I don't disagree, but I am going to really be disappointed if this regime is making roster decisions because they feel obliged to a contract they probably would have preferred to be shorter all things being equal.

 

In other words, I really hope this team gets away from the "get our money out of him" kind of thinking that doomed the club in years past. *Hypothetically* if Garver or someone else was by every account and measurement the best catcher on the team, Castro should be the backup from day one, contract be damned.

 

And there should be at least one young guy given that opportunity in my opinion.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't disagree, but I am going to really be disappointed if this regime is making roster decisions because they feel obliged to a contract they probably would have preferred to be shorter all things being equal.

 

In other words, I really hope this team gets away from the "get our money out of him" kind of thinking that doomed the club in years past. *Hypothetically* if Garver or someone else was by every account and measurement the best catcher on the team, Castro should be the backup from day one, contract be damned.

 

And there should be at least one young guy given that opportunity in my opinion.

I'd be disappointed in that as well but I don't believe Castro is the guy in Garver's way, at least not right now. Gimenez and Murphy are likely the guys getting in the way of Garver playing in Minnesota. Castro doesn't really have anything to do with it and probably won't until those other two guys get their chances in some capacity.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'd be disappointed in that as well but I don't believe Castro is the guy in Garver's way, at least not right now. Gimenez and Murphy are likely the guys getting in the way of Garver playing in Minnesota. Castro doesn't really have anything to do with it and probably won't until those other two guys get their chances in some capacity.

 

Right, I have no issue with Castro being the starter right now, but I am wondering if there are any young guys that haven't already been in MN that will get a shot on a 59 win team.....it sure looks like not. That seems awfully hard to believe. 

[Deduno Abides]

Not what I would do really, but it seems the most likely scenario:   Gimenez.

 

• Both Farvey and Lavine have spoken positively of him in his ability to help young pitchers and "leadership".
  
• He was the personal catcher of Cleveland's Trevor Bauer, and Bauer spoke very highly of him
  
• He his right handed and hits lefties well (like both Murphy and Garver)
  
• He can play first base ok, as well
  

I think that for this FO 2017 is an evaluation and not a rebuild year, from the Front Office to the minor leagues to the players.  They placed an emphasis in pitching (and defense) and want to evaluate pitchers under the best possible circumstances.  Again, not what I would do, but it looks like it is Gimenez's job to lose.

 

Also, let Murphy and Garver compete in AAA to prove they belong in the majors. Neither of them has exactly shown that they belong. If one of them has a great April and May, revisit the issue. If there are 55 games in April/May, Castro is likely to catch perhaps 40 of them. If Garver or Murphy belong with the Twins, there's not much loss if they miss 15-20 games over two months.

[David HK]

Hmm.  We signed Murphy because he hit that one home run against us that one time.  So did Gimenez- rocking one off Scott Baker back in '09.  

 

I see a pattern developing here.  

 

Has Castro ever gone deep against us?

 

Edit time:  Oh my gosh, yes.  He tagged both Alex Meyer and Casey Fien just last year!  One by one, we're slowly co-opting all those 2nd catchers who've dinged us in the past.  Crazy like a fox, eh?

 

Bravo, TR, and also DF and TL!  That's strategery for ya, you betcha.

[D.C Twins]

Similar to our discussions about minor league short stops....I'm simply happy that we have enough catchers this year that warrant discussion!

[D.C Twins]

No worries....these catchers will play themselves to exactly the place they should be over the first 2-3 months of the year (in JM's case, I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be right out of the organization... and in Garver's case up to the majors to stay)....and this team has nothing but time right now.

[Linus]

Hmm. We signed Murphy because he hit that one home run against us that one time. So did Gimenez- rocking one off Scott Baker back in '09.

 

I see a pattern developing here.

 

Has Castro ever gone deep against us?

 

Edit time: Oh my gosh, yes. He tagged both Alex Meyer and Casey Fien just last year! One by one, we're slowly co-opting all those 2nd catchers who've dinged us in the past. Crazy like a fox, eh?

 

Bravo, TR, and also DF and TL! That's strategery for ya, you betcha.

Umm..no. it had nothing to do with it. MLB organizations have scouting resources well in advance silly sample sizes but rip away if you want.

[MN_ExPat]

I get Gimenez is a veteran presence that Falvey is really comfortable with, but how does keeping him on the major roster and sending the other two to AAA benefit Garver and Murphy.   If Gimenez stays this means Murphy and Garver both share time at AAA.   At what point is this getting either one of them extra ABs and playing time?

 

Needless to say, these are the decisions that make me glad I'm not the GM.    I have a hard enough time just being dad, and trying to stay out of the way and not "coach" a son who loves to play ball.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I get Gimenez is a veteran presence that Falvey is really comfortable with, but how does keeping him on the major roster and sending the other two to AAA benefit Garver and Murphy.

I appears the argument isn't whether Gimenez benefits Garver or Murphy, it's whether Gimenez benefits the pitching staff.

 

I'm not sold on Gimenez making the 25 man roster but after lamenting the defensive acumen of this team for the past several seasons, I can't complain too much if the front office tries hard to fix that problem, even at the expense of offensive firepower.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I appears the argument isn't whether Gimenez benefits Garver or Murphy, it's whether Gimenez benefits the pitching staff.

 

I'm not sold on Gimenez making the 25 man roster but after lamenting the defensive acumen of this team for the past several seasons, I can't complain too much if the front office tries hard to fix that problem, even at the expense of offensive firepower.

 

As I said yesterday, to what end? They appear to be going with a bunch of veterans. Who are they going to help develop the first half of the year? Also, if the young guys need so much help, and Murphy and Garver can't help them, how will Berrios and Gonsalves learn anything in AAA with such bad catching?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

As I said yesterday, to what end? They appear to be going with a bunch of veterans. Who are they going to help develop the first half of the year? Also, if the young guys need so much help, and Murphy and Garver can't help them, how will Berrios and Gonsalves learn anything in AAA with such bad catching?

I don't think it's only the young guys who need help. Gibson was atrocious last season. Hughes was injured. Santiago often teeters between competency and full-blown trainwreck mode. Santana is the only guy on the staff whom I'd trust to call his own pitches and throw to a robot behind the plate. One guy out of 12.

 

Good framing and smart pitch-calling benefits everyone on the staff. Now, is Gimenez better enough at those skills to supplant Murphy on Opening Day? Dunno, that's a high bar to reach, as Murphy is generally regarded as being adequate at those things.

 

To me, this is a situation where I have to trust that Falvey and Levine know a hell of a lot more about baseball than I do. I see their reasoning but I'm not convinced it's the right move.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't think it's only the young guys who need help. Gibson was atrocious last season. Hughes was injured. Santiago often teeters between competency and full-blown trainwreck mode. Santana is the only guy on the staff whom I'd trust to call his own pitches and throw to a robot behind the plate. One guy out of 12.

 

Good framing and smart pitch-calling benefits everyone on the staff. Now, is Gimenez better enough at those skills to supplant Murphy on Opening Day? Dunno, that's a high bar to reach, as Murphy is generally regarded as being adequate at those things.

 

To me, this is a situation where I have to trust that Falvey and Levine know a hell of a lot more about baseball than I do. I see their reasoning but I'm not convinced it's the right move.

 

your under the assumption:

 

1. Hughes will start. I'm not.

2. I should care about the success of anyone on the current SP staff, which I consider pretty much all placeholders at this point.

 

IF Garver and Murphy aren't good at helping pitchers, do you want them catching Berrios and Gonsavles in AAA? If they are good at helping pitchers, don't you want one in the majors, so they are ready to help Berrios and others when they come up?

 

Yes, they know more than I. Yes, a catcher will help these pitchers. But, ESan will be gone before this team is good. Gibson might be. Santiago will be, imo. Hughes will be a RP or hurt. I just can't get all that excited about helping THESE pitchers. Heck, the RP corps is pretty much guys that won't be here in 2 years either.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

your under the assumption:

 

1. Hughes will start. I'm not.

2. I should care about the success of anyone on the current SP staff, which I consider pretty much all placeholders at this point.

 

IF Garver and Murphy aren't good at helping pitchers, do you want them catching Berrios and Gonsavles in AAA? If they are good at helping pitchers, don't you want one in the majors, so they are ready to help Berrios and others when they come up?

 

Yes, they know more than I. Yes, a catcher will help these pitchers. But, ESan will be gone before this team is good. Gibson might be. Santiago will be, imo. Hughes will be a RP or hurt. I just can't get all that excited about helping THESE pitchers. Heck, the RP corps is pretty much guys that won't be here in 2 years either.....

Everyone should care about every starter on the 2017 squad because they will win/lose games. While the team should be in evaluation mode, that doesn't mean you punt on the people currently on the roster.

 

And I think you're being a bit too black and white about this subject. No one is saying that Garver and Murphy aren't adequate or even good at working with pitchers, calling a game, or framing, but maybe they're not as good as Gimenez.

 

And that's where I have to trust the new front office to use every tool available to them to quantify those differences into pure run and win/loss totals. If the result is neutral, sure, you go with the young guy over the veteran because it's important for this team to look forward as often as possible. But if the veteran has a distinct advantage, you give that veteran strong consideration for the 25 man roster.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Everyone should care about every starter on the 2017 squad because they will win/lose games. While the team should be in evaluation mode, that doesn't mean you punt on the people currently on the roster.

 

And I think you're being a bit too black and white about this subject. No one is saying that Garver and Murphy aren't adequate or even good at working with pitchers, calling a game, or framing, but maybe they're not as good as Gimenez.

 

And that's where I have to trust the new front office to use every tool available to them to quantify those differences into pure run and win/loss totals. If the result is neutral, sure, you go with the young guy over the veteran because it's important for this team to look forward as often as possible. But if the veteran has a distinct advantage, you give that veteran strong consideration for the 25 man roster.

 

Fair. I just have a REALLY hard time liking the roster not adding 1 young player to a 59 win team, and adding a bunch of mediocre veterans. All so something nebulous can maybe happen.

 

And, while I like wins, I don't care about 78 vs 72 wins. I care about 2018 and beyond being good to great. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Fair. I just have a REALLY hard time liking the roster not adding 1 young player to a 59 win team, and adding a bunch of mediocre veterans. All so something nebulous can maybe happen.

 

And, while I like wins, I don't care about 78 vs 72 wins. I care about 2018 and beyond being good to great. 

I think "adding one young player" is a bit misleading when referring to this team. The Twins have one of the youngest rosters in baseball right now. Sure, they don't have many (any) rookies but they have a bunch of under-26 talent that needs to play and grow if this team is going to advance and win more games in future seasons.

 

I don't care about 72 or 78 wins much, either, but baseball is often an incremental game when building a team. You try to hit that 75 win total because it puts you in a good position to hit 83 wins the following season. You don't try to achieve that 75 win total by playing veteran starters on expiring contracts but the Twins aren't doing that. When you get right down to it, we're talking about a catcher who will spend far more time interacting with the pitching staff in practice and drills than on the field, a guy who will receive maybe ~200 plate appearances if he sticks around for the entire season.

 

What's it worth to have that kind of guy in the clubhouse all season? I have no idea. I hope Falvey and Levine do, though.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, they aren't adding any young players. We just won't agree on this. For a 59 win team to promote zero players from the minors at the end of last year that will stick this year, and none to start this year, that disappoints me. Not asking you to be disappointed, it's just where I am.

 

Heck, if Berrios and/or Duffey/May is in AAA, they have LESS young players than last year....

[zach.jezierski]

I think Mauer has a great shot to be the backup catcher. Move Sano over to first and insert Vargas at third and if the pitching can hold up like it did last year this team has a outstanding shot of winning 80-82 games. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think Mauer has a great shot to be the backup catcher.

Mauer will never catch another game in Major League Baseball.

 

The guy had his brain rattled pretty severely. His catching days are done.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Is it possible that "Vargas at third" signals that that's a joke?

[MN_ExPat]

 

I appears the argument isn't whether Gimenez benefits Garver or Murphy, it's whether Gimenez benefits the pitching staff.

 

I'm not sold on Gimenez making the 25 man roster but after lamenting the defensive acumen of this team for the past several seasons, I can't complain too much if the front office tries hard to fix that problem, even at the expense of offensive firepower.

I must agree with you good Sir.    I should really avoid posting at work when I'm still full of the "I'm with the Government, we're here to help" mindset.

Edited March 2, 2017 by MN_ExPat