Article: Nishioka Gets Another Shot

[DPJ]

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

Sweet Jesus...

[DaveW]

Sweet Jesus...

I couldn't see that happening with Ryan at the helm, no way would he allow that much money to be tossed aside for a Japan PR effort/what not.

I'm pretty sure the Rangers did the same thing, now they are stuck with a #3/#4 in Darvish who they shelled out over 100 mil for.

[DPJ]

I couldn't see that happening with Ryan at the helm, no way would he allow that much money to be tossed aside for a Japan PR effort/what not.

I'm pretty sure the Rangers did the same thing, now they are stuck with a #3/#4 in Darvish who they shelled out over 100 mil for.

1. Ryan was part of the organization when they signed Nishi, please stop acting like everything wrong with this organization is/was Smith's fault.

 

2. Please tell me you're joking about Darvish?

[Paul]

You can only keep playing Nishi until he starts demoralizing pitchers...We've got some fairly inexperienced pitchers out there. Having to overcome fielding errors is probably helpful to a point but at some point it has to demoralize the pithcer -- and the team.

 

Right on brother. It's not very often that I am utterly baffled by the Twins management activities. But I am here.

 

IMO, this is a repeat of the middle of the mistake trail that caused the debacle of 2011.

[jokin]

I don't think hat they knew he was worthless. I think that this was a MASSIVE ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE -- and that's why no one was fired over it.

 

I suspect that there was some failure in scouting -- my bet is that the scouts raised some concerns but that they didn't put up a "stop sign" on signing him. And then, I think that the desire to gain an entree into the Japanese market overrode any "red flags" that the scouts may have raised.

 

A failure at all levels in the process. We can only hope that they've learned a lesson from it and that they keep marketing out of the baseball decisions.

Yep, exactly. Dave St Peter can't fire himself in this non-knee-jerk organization. But I'm not sure if they've learned their lesson. Perhaps that's why "numbers guy", Bill Smith was left on the payroll and kept in a hermetically sealed room- to continue having fun with numbers so he and DSP can scheme up a new marketing coup in [insert country here].

[DaveW]

1. Ryan was part of the organization when they signed Nishi, please stop acting like everything wrong with this organization is/was Smith's fault.

 

2. Please tell me you're joking about Darvish?

1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

 

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.

[DPJ]

1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

 

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.

1. But if the call came down from the Pohlads to sign him cause it would increase revenue from Japan how were the Pohlads not involved?

 

3. Yu is/was the best pitcher to ever come outta Japan...EVER. You don't sign him a guy for a 100 to get some Yen.

[one_eyed_jack]

A failure at all levels in the process. We can only hope that they've learned a lesson from it and that they keep marketing out of the baseball decisions.

 

---Agree with this. My fear is that they'll learn a lesson, but it will be the wrong lesson.

 

This move was a departure from recent tradition. More money, higher risk. In a lot of ways, it was exactly the type of move the fans complained that the team refused to make, opting instead for low cost, low risk, low reward guys.

 

So now that it has completely blown up in their face, I'm afraid the conclusion will be that it's better go back to sifting through the bargain bin for Mike Lambs and Tony Batistas and ignoring Japan completely.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll do a post-mortem on what went wrong here and how to do better next time so that instead of another Nishioka, we get, say, another Tadahito Iguchi.

[Craig Arko]

That's a good observation. They tried playing with the big kids, and it didn't work the first time. Don't stop trying, just do better next time.

[PopRiveter]

I think "MASSIVE ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE" is a bit of an overstatement when we're talking about a bust signing that consumes only 5% of your payroll. They are getting embarrassing production from the guy, but they are only paying "competant, established player" salary. The FO should be as embarrassed as Nishi is at this swing-and-miss, but it'll only cost $3mil next year to make it go away, right? It's not my money, so I'm more inclined to mourn the at bats and innings they give him than the money.

[Guest USAFChief]

FWIW, I don't think it was the Twins scouting that let them down on this one. I know some folks who saw the Twins scouts reports on Nishi, and they say it was pretty accurate. I assume it didn't say "AA Player" in big red letters, but it did estimate his skills appropriately.

 

I've also heard from some people that the problem with the Nishi signing was that the tail was wagging the dog - the Twins wanted to expand to Japan for revenue reasons and Nishi (and the pitcher they just lost out on) were their attempts to do so.

I have a hard time buying any this. For one thing, how much add'l revenue could the Twins reasonably expect from Japan?

 

It also doesn't seem to jive with the "Twins way" of doing things.

 

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/128926563.html?refer=y

 

I think the simplest explanation is often the best. In this case, they convinced themselves JJ Hardy had to go, to get "quicker" and "more athletic" in the middle infield, and they thought Nishioka could provide that, at a minor cost savings to boot. As it turned out, Nishioka hasn't been able to play major league baseball. He wouldn't be the first, and won't be the last time a scout(s) missed on a player.

[diehardtwinsfan]

1. Ryan wasn't the GM! Smith was! At the end of the day it's the GM's decision on who to sign, who to trade etc. If the GM doesn't have the final say then you are in a Steinbrenner type situation, and from what I have seen the Pohlads usually don't get super involved in player decisions (other then oking the payroll increase to sign Mauer)

 

2. 4.57 ERA is worth 20 million a year? I get he was "sexy" coming over, but he is suddenly looking like a majority of the other pitchers that came from Japan, they are able to fool hitters for a bit since there isn't a whole lot of tape/scouting report on them, and then people begin to figure them out. In his last 10 starts he has a 5.94 ERA. He's giving up a lot of hits and walks. Not saying he will be a Nishi level bust, just that he won't live up to the money they spent to get him as he settles in as a #3/#4.

 

4.57 ERA isn't much higher than league average. He's also 25 and striking out nearly 11/9. His walk rate is his real deficiency. If he cuts that in half, he's an ace.

[DaveW]

His walk rate is his real deficiency. If he cuts that in half, he's an ace.

Where have we heard this before...