Article: Nishioka Gets Another Shot

[beckmt]

Twins got a possible long range prospect, Valencia had worked his way out of town, bad attitude and lack of ability. Terry Ryan has a big job ahead of him and this is a start. Do not be fooled, Red Sox are in the same boat as us. Anything is better than nothing. Casilla is probably next unless they trade Jamie Carroll.

[snepp]

Yeah I don't like the fact that the Twins just up and gave up a guy that I still think has a roll on this team. Not an everyday roll but a roll non-the less.

Keep going, you're on a role.

[Thrylos]

Terry Ryan has a big job ahead of him and this is a start. .

Yes and No.

 

Terry Ryan (or whomever the Twins GM will be) has a big job ahead of them and it has to do with getting the rotation fixed. The Valencia traded (and everything that Ryan did last off-season) has nothing to do with priority number one.

 

Trading a guy who for whatever reason had no future in this organization for a Rk level OF does nothing to fix the rotation (which should be Ryan's big job.) So it is not a start for anything. Trading (for example) Morneau for an MLB-ready SP would have been a start...

 

And, to be clear, I am not saying that the Valencia trade is "good" or "bad"... All I am saying is that it is a side move that does not address the major priorities with this team.

[Steve Penz]

Minor subject change and I apologize if this is a horribly old and over-done topic. I want to know who lost their job over Nishi. Who went to Japan and/or saw him in the US and said, "oh yeah, this guys is the real deal."? Somebody will say Bill Smith. There had to be other people involved in that evaluation. If I understand the story correctly, Gardy saw him for one day in Spring Training '11 and knew immediately that he did not have the ability to play the MLB shortstop position. MLB channel does a lot of shows that profile top-ten lists. How about a show for most horrific scouting reports?

[DPJ]

Keep going, you're on a role.

Ahh...I see what you did there.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins don't have what it takes to get major league ready pitching. They might have been able to trade Span for J.C. Sulbaran (and other minor pieces) who was moved in the Broxton deal. Sulbaran is a C+ prospect in AA.

 

It is possible the Braves would have taken a combination of Liriano and Span for the injured Arodys Vizcaino and a C prospect.

 

Other than those two, I didn't see any starting pitching prospects where the Twins could reasonably match the deal.

 

Teams don't give up major league ready starting pitching without great return. Morneau is not going to be enough.

[DaveW]

Yeah I don't like the fact that the Twins just up and gave up a guy that I still think has a roll on this team. Not an everyday roll but a roll non-the less.

What role would that be?

5 more days on the roster, then sent back down to AAA for the rest of the season where he can continue to post a sub .700 OPS while having little value defensively? Then Cut in the off-season?

 

I have a feeling if this happened you would be leading the "we should have traded Valencia when we had a chance" group.

[jimbo92107]

Nishioka was just a blown scouting report. Anybody looks good in their own highlight reel.

 

Look, he got a hit! Let's run that again... Wow, now he's two for two!

[PopRiveter]

Rocketpig, I appreciate your reasoning on the utility role. It does make sense that the team might be looking to to salvage a little of a sunk cost the way you describe, but Nishioka hasn't earned the right to replace Alexi Casilla for any reason other than having the contract he does. Nishioka's whole value is based on a plus glove, a high OBP and speed. The glove he brought to the US has been poor, his OBP is .309 (at AAA,) and he's gone 6 for 12 in steal attempts. No matter how they try to whitewash it, any chances he's getting are being offered due to the fact that he's owed a lot of money. To me, that is what is meant by the "Scholarship Program." I.E. Just because we gave our scholarship to a guy doesn't mean he should get the chance over someone with a more deserving performance. Casilla is proving he's not worth arbitration, but he leaves a hole that can be filled cheaply with or without putting Nishioka in a Twins uni. I would like to see Mastroianni at 2nd for a couple weeks to learn whether that's an option.

[DPJ]

What role would that be?

5 more days on the roster, then sent back down to AAA for the rest of the season where he can continue to post a sub .700 OPS while having little value defensively? Then Cut in the off-season?

 

I have a feeling if this happened you would be leading the "we should have traded Valencia when we had a chance" group.

He's a nice bench player to have, I think we all know the days of Matt Tolbert pitch hitting late in games. Danny isn't gonna set the world on fire, but he can play some 1B and 3B, I bet with some work he could fake a corner OF spot and he's a decent righty bat to have on the bench with a team loaded with lefties.

[Boom Boom]

He's a nice bench player to have, I think we all know the days of Matt Tolbert pitch hitting late in games. Danny isn't gonna set the world on fire, but he can play some 1B and 3B, I bet with some work he could fake a corner OF spot and he's a decent righty bat to have on the bench with a team loaded with lefties.

But Gardy doesn't like him.

 

I get the feeling that the trade wasn't about getting something in return, it was about getting rid of Danny. Like the Kyle Lohse trade.

 

If I was TR, and Boston claimed Valencia, I'd ask for a pitcher. And if I couldn't get a pitcher, I'd just keep Valencia for now.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm somewhat surprised we got anything at all of value for Danny. His "attitude issues" whatever those are, were well documented before he even made the bigs, and they have to make room on the 40 man roster somewhere, so you know that no one was going to offer much. He's not exactly playing lights out baseball either. I had hoped he could be a league average 3B for a while, but for the moment that ship has sailed. Perhaps Boston can right his ship a bit, but given all the club house problems out there, I'm not sure that Danny was the best pickup.

[one_eyed_jack]

And he's in the lineup tonight no less. Hope he surprises the living daylights out of us.

 

Nothing to be lost by seeing what he can do, even if the answer to that is "not much", might as well give it a shot.

 

I wonder if things might have played out a little differently with him had he played in Rochester last year. I don't know that I've ever seen someone look so completely uncomfortable on a baseball field.

 

This has turned out to be a bad move on so many levels. Not only was he a mess on the field, but last year I made the mistake of reading the Strib and PiPress comments with some regularity, and they were often a cess pool of racially-charged hate directed at Nishioka that almost made me throw in my mouth. I know the guy played some bad baseball and the internet brings out the worst in people, but the fact that so many people went there was really disappointing. I'd like to think our state and our fan base is better than that.

[Snortwood]

First post on this subject since the game. In the way of awards, Nishi deserves something like Worst Performance Ever by a Second Baseman on a Winning Team in an Absolute Blowout. Two errors, and really he should have received a 3rd even though the throw from Carroll was high he has to at least catch the ball. He can't pickup toward the hole, he can't catch a ball that isn't thrown right to him, and the sun must have gotten in his eyes on that first grounder of the game somehow.

 

Oh - and he went 0 for 5, though he did advance a runner one base one time and even hit the ball foul with some authority one time. But that's it for the positive spin. A nice foul ball and a well placed grounder when the game was in doubt.

 

I"m done with him. I'm done with expecting anything better than what we saw from him tonight. If I were the GM he'd be back in the minors or DFA tonight. If I were the manager I would vow (internally, not for public consumption, but to the team that expects a player to contribute at something remotely resembling major league caliber play and to management no matter what the cost, even my job) that I would NEVER write his name down in the lineup card again. Ever. No way is the team worse with Casilla at 2B and Carroll or Casilla there once Plouffe gets back in the everyday. This team can only improve by playing anyone other than that overmatched bumbler out there.

 

He's an embarrassment to the organization and to anyone taking money for admission to games. Thanks for raising him up for scrutiny one last time here. No further time or energy will be expended on him by me.

[stringer bell]

The Twins have tried to be supportive and it hasn't worked. If they haven't done it yet, I think the Twins should confront Nishi. Something along the lines of "we paid a lot of money for your services, and we haven't received much of anything. Do you have something to offer or is this the best you can do?" We plan to DFA you if you don't perform and wouldn't expect any team to claim you. Do you want to go out like that?"

[jokin]

The Twins have tried to be supportive and it hasn't worked. If they haven't done it yet, I think the Twins should confront Nishi. Something along the lines of "we paid a lot of money for your services, and we haven't received much of anything. Do you have something to offer or is this the best you can do?" We plan to DFA you if you don't perform and wouldn't expect any team to claim you. Do you want to go out like that?"

Don't you think this is something they have tried this in the past and something has gotten "lost in the translation" with Ryo as the middleman? I'll go on record admitting I was completely wrong yesterday when I said he couldn't be worse than last year.

[jokin]

First post on this subject since the game. In the way of awards, Nishi deserves something like Worst Performance Ever by a Second Baseman on a Winning Team in an Absolute Blowout. Two errors, and really he should have received a 3rd even though the throw from Carroll was high he has to at least catch the ball. He can't pickup toward the hole, he can't catch a ball that isn't thrown right to him, and the sun must have gotten in his eyes on that first grounder of the game somehow....

 

You left out the juggling act and the full frontal face-plant.

[Reginald Maudling's Shin]

I think this is hilarious. We haven't had a player this legendarily horse-sh!t since Houston Jiminez.

[70charger]

It is kind of hilarious, actually. I like to hum the Benny Hill theme song whenever a ball gets hit his way...

[Nick Nelson]

Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.

 

Gardenhire said the plan is to give Nishioka regular playing time at second.

 

"We're just going to let him play," Gardenhire said.

 

...

 

"It's not just three days for Nishi," Gardenhire said. "Nishi is here to play."

 

 

Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

[Craig Arko]

Yeah, give him the same week or so Valencia received. If there's improvement, great. If not, get him out of here. At least off the 40 man.

[DPJ]

Same a bit of the game and Nishi still looked like **** from here, bad at-bats and crap-tastic defense.

[Mauerzy4Prez]

Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.

 

 

 

Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

I also heard that Gardy said Nishi will likely stay around after Plouffe comes back from the DL. Last night was downright terrible, and honestly I was mad at first but eventually you just feel bad for the guy. He clearly has some major confidence issues and they are impacting his ability to play sound baseball. When you are booting easy ground balls and throws off the heal of your glove and flat out falling down as you throw a ten footer to first base, the issue comes back to what is going on in his own head. I say give him the rest of the series at second base, let him go back out tonight and make up for yesterday, and hopefully he can get more comfortable. He'll either sink or swim, but at least then we will know if he's a useful utility, or a complete head case that just needs to go away.

[SBG]

Based on these quotes from Gardy, it sounds like the Twins are on board with my plan: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/165216066.html?refer=y.

 

 

 

Missed the game tonight but it sounds like a comically bad performance. On the bright side, if he keeps this up, the Twins can move forward with him firmly out of the picture for next year.

If Nishi was a vaudeville act, the hook would have come out about halfway through last night's game.

[DaveW]

Sending Dozier back down wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, Gardy is right, he hasn't preformed offensively. I find it interesting that he wants Dozier to focus more on taking walks, that is a good thing IMO.

 

Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

[DPJ]

Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

Nishi has no future with this team, Dozier does. In a lost season you play young guys who actually have a future with your club, not overpaid mistake signings who's only up cause he's making 3 million.

 

20-25 games doesn't change anything, he can't hit and he can't field worth a damn.

[DaveW]

Nishi has no future with this team, Dozier does. In a lost season you play young guys who actually have a future with your club, not overpaid mistake signings who's only up cause he's making 3 million.

 

20-25 games doesn't change anything, he can't hit and he can't field worth a damn.

Did you read the article? They want to send Dozier down to help his development. The kid has potential, but let's not sugarcoat it, he has been pretty bad offensively. Hopefully he can go down to AAA, work on his swing/approach and come back up soon and hit for a .700+ OPS.

 

I agree, Nishi sucks but he is owed good money next year, Gardy might as well throw him out there and say "See, we can't count on him in any way shape or form next year" Sort of like what they are potentially doing with Blackburn if he continues to struggle.

[Mauerzy4Prez]

Sending Dozier back down wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, Gardy is right, he hasn't preformed offensively. I find it interesting that he wants Dozier to focus more on taking walks, that is a good thing IMO.

 

Of course if Dozier is sent down and Nishi is kept up people will go bonkers, but in a lost season we might as well see if Nishioka has ANY sort of a future in the big leagues. I'm guessing he gets 20-25 games to prove himself, and if he doesn't do a complete 180 he will be cut at the end of the year. At the very least we should be able to get some laughs.

I understand what you're thought process is here, but I don't think this is a good idea because it is not keeping in mind the big picture. What type of message does that send to Dozier if we send him down to AAA and give his spot to Nishioka? Dozier is a long term prospect for us that needs to stay up and continue to build up his ability at this level. Nishi is an after thought and a mistake, that we are never going to pursue long term and will likely be gone by next year. Sending Dozier down right now, with September right around the corner makes no sense at all... ESPECIALLY if we are going to fill his spot with this dud of a player. Not to mention that one of the main reasons we called up Nishi in the first place is to give Escobar full time play at AAA for the rest of the season.

[DPJ]

Did you read the article? They want to send Dozier down to help his development. The kid has potential, but let's not sugarcoat it, he has been pretty bad offensively. Hopefully he can go down to AAA, work on his swing/approach and come back up soon and hit for a .700+ OPS.

 

I agree, Nishi sucks but he is owed good money next year, Gardy might as well throw him out there and say "See, we can't count on him in any way shape or form next year" Sort of like what they are potentially doing with Blackburn if he continues to struggle.

I've never been high on Doz, IMO he's a Carrol-like utility player. But what's the point of sending him down, let the kid work through his lumps and either get going or crap the bed. In lost seasons you ride out the kids and figure out if it's one less hole you have to fill in 2013.

 

Blackburn and Nishi are in the majors for the same reason, they're both owed money going into 2013. If neither of these guys weren't on the books for 2013, they would have been shipped out months ago.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think there's enough time in the MiLB season to send down Dozier and expect any kind of results... unless they do it right now.