2016-2017 Vikings Offseason Thread

[Mike Sixel]

 

I disagree. Franchise QB's can be found all over the draft.
If you list all the legit franchise QB's in the NFL, how many were taken in the first half of the first round?

Look at the franchise QB's in the playoffs this year-
Brady
Roethlisberger
Rodgers
Ryan
Prescott
Wilson

I think only 1 (Ryan) of those guys was picked in the top half of the first round.

I'm not a fan of locking up Bradford.
I think he's just good enough to keep you competitive, but not good enough to win Super Bowls.
The salary of a franchise QB limits keeping a core around him.
That means you have to either find one that you believe can be a perennial SB threat, or cycle through guys on rookie deals and be able to afford a good core around them.

 

You do realize how hard it is to find even a service NFL QB these days, right? I mean, sure, Brady somehow fell, can you find me many others, across the whole NFL, not just that playoff teams you picked? With a decent OL and elite defense, Bradford is enough, imo. People say this all the time "position X can be found anywhere, see all these anecdotes I can show".....if that was true, teams would be trading from the top of the first round for a 2nd and a 5th....but we all know that doesn't happen....

 

Is Matt Stafford not a franchise QB? 

[Vanimal46]

The exception is finding a Franchise QB outside of the 1st round, definitely not the norm.... 

When it comes to the Vikings, and frankly any team that doesn't have a franchise QB, I'd gamble a mid round pick every year on a QB and hope to hit the jackpot. Especially when most waste their 5th and 6th round picks on guys like the German WR who played zero snaps this season. 

[TheLeviathan]

You can do that Van but you still have to have playing time for them. I am in favor of it every 3 years or so.

[Mr. Brooks]

You do realize how hard it is to find even a service NFL QB these days, right? I mean, sure, Brady somehow fell, can you find me many others, across the whole NFL, not just that playoff teams you picked? With a decent OL and elite defense, Bradford is enough, imo. People say this all the time "position X can be found anywhere, see all these anecdotes I can show".....if that was true, teams would be trading from the top of the first round for a 2nd and a 5th....but we all know that doesn't happen....

 

Is Matt Stafford not a franchise QB?

Of course the odds go down as you go through the draft.

I was responding to someone who said the only way to get another franchise QB is to lose a lot.

That implies that it's impossible to get one anywhere but with a top 10 pick, which isn't true.

Is it harder to find one later? Yeah, duh. Not impossible though. The are plenty of examples, not just Brady.

 

Of course Stafford is a franchise QB. I said they can be found "all over the draft". That includes first overall.

 

How do you propose keeping an elite defense when you have to commit $20+ million per year to Bradford? If you commit that much to one position it better be a guy like Brady or Peyton or Rodgers or Big Ben, a guy that can carry a team on his own.

I don't feel Bradford is in that class.

I'd rather keep the elite defense together until we find a guy like that.

Just because those guys are far and few between, doesn't mean you resign yourself to never being able to have one. The Packers found a way to turnover from Favre to Rodgers, and they didn't need a top 10 pick to do so.

Every now and then a guy like Rodgers or Wilson falls in the draft and everyone has a shot at them. Maybe Bridgewater would have been that guy, we'll likely never know now.

I don't trust Bradford to ever be more than a guy just good enough to win 9 or 10 games every couple of years, but with no rings.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Of course the odds go down as you go through the draft.
I was responding to someone who said the only way to get another franchise QB is to lose a lot.
That implies that it's impossible to get one anywhere but with a top 10 pick, which isn't true.
Is it harder to find one later? Yeah, duh. Not impossible though. The are plenty of examples, not just Brady.

Of course Stafford is a franchise QB. I said they can be found "all over the draft". That includes first overall.

How do you propose keeping an elite defense when you have to commit $20+ million per year to Bradford? If you commit that much to one position it better be a guy like Brady or Peyton or Rodgers or Big Ben, a guy that can carry a team on his own.
I don't feel Bradford is in that class.
I'd rather keep the elite defense together until we find a guy like that.
Just because those guys are far and few between, doesn't mean you resign yourself to never being able to have one. The Packers found a way to turnover from Favre to Rodgers, and they didn't need a top 10 pick to do so.
Every now and then a guy like Rodgers or Wilson falls in the draft and everyone has a shot at them. Maybe Bridgewater would have been that guy, we'll likely never know now.
I don't trust Bradford to ever be more than a guy just good enough to win 9 or 10 games every couple of years, but with no rings.

 

The elite defense is getting older and older, you can't just keep them together for, what? 3-5 years? Rodgers sat for how many years before he played?

 

Look, I don't love Bradford, but they aren't finding a QB this draft (unless they just don't draft any OL  early, again, and get lucky).....then you are going to what, hope there is one there the following year? that's the issue, really. If you don't sign him, you are basically praying/hoping you get super lucky that a: there is a QB that falls; b: he's good right out of the gate, great, really, because Bradford is good.

[Mr. Brooks]

The elite defense is getting older and older, you can't just keep them together for, what? 3-5 years? Rodgers sat for how many years before he played?

 

Look, I don't love Bradford, but they aren't finding a QB this draft (unless they just don't draft any OL early, again, and get lucky).....then you are going to what, hope there is one there the following year? that's the issue, really. If you don't sign him, you are basically praying/hoping you get super lucky that a: there is a QB that falls; b: he's good right out of the gate, great, really, because Bradford is good.

When I say keep an elite defense, I'm including continually reloading it when guys get old. I'm not just speaking of the guys we have now.

If you have a QB on a rookie contract, you can afford to do that.

I realize we've already had the championship or bust argument in the Twins forum, and I think I recall we disagreed.

I just don't see Bradford as being a SB winning QB. 10 win seasons with no payoff do nothing for me at this point, I've seen plenty of those in my life.

So from my point of view, I don't care what the consequences are of passing on Bradford and missing in the draft. Whether we keep Bradford and have a few 10 win seasons, or we keep trying to draft a legit, elite QB and fail, the end result will be the same to me- no SB wins. But, at least with the latter path we have a chance to find that next Brady or Rodgers or Big Ben.

I respect that you disagree, either by thinking a division championship is good enough, or that Bradford can win a title. I just feel differently.

[Mike Sixel]

 

When I say keep an elite defense, I'm including continually reloading it when guys get old. I'm not just speaking of the guys we have now.
If you have a QB on a rookie contract, you can afford to do that.
I realize we've already had the championship or bust argument in the Twins forum, and I think I recall we disagreed.
I just don't see Bradford as being a SB winning QB. 10 win seasons with no payoff do nothing for me at this point, I've seen plenty of those in my life.
So from my point of view, I don't care what the consequences are of passing on Bradford and missing in the draft. Whether we keep Bradford and have a few 10 win seasons, or we keep trying to draft a legit, elite QB and fail, the end result will be the same to me- no SB wins. But, at least with the latter path we have a chance to find that next Brady or Rodgers or Big Ben.
I respect that you disagree, either by thinking a division championship is good enough, or that Bradford can win a title. I just feel differently.

 

well, I've watched playoff defeats since the 60s, so I feel your pain....

 

Not sure Bradford is worse than some SB winners, but I agree, if they had an elite QB, that would help. I just think I'd take a chance with Bradford and elite D, than no Bradford and an elite D.

[Mr. Brooks]

well, I've watched playoff defeats since the 60s, so I feel your pain....

 

Not sure Bradford is worse than some SB winners, but I agree, if they had an elite QB, that would help. I just think I'd take a chance with Bradford and elite D, than no Bradford and an elite D.

But if you sign Bradford to a big extension, can you afford to keep an elite defense? That's where my problem lies.

Maybe for a year or two you can, but not for the entirety of the contract.

[Mike Sixel]

 

But if you sign Bradford to a big extension, can you afford to keep an elite defense? That's where my problem lies.
Maybe for a year or two you can, but not for the entirety of the contract.

 

it helps they finally shed AP.....

 

Hard to say. It depends on what they pay him. If they have to pay more than $20MM or maybe $25MM, I'd say it will be hard. that also depends on if they can get better at drafting. Last year was a disaster. Great teams in the NFL start rookies, a lot. The vikes were bad and still had no real rookie starters. The NFL is truly the league of scrubs and stars. The middle is largely being squeezed out.

 

Frankly, I have my doubts the D is elite enough right now, due to some obvious mistakes, and the OL is so bad they pretty much have to spend real money there next year. That said, they somehow started the year the more money in the OL than any other team, I think.....

[Vanimal46]

But if you sign Bradford to a big extension, can you afford to keep an elite defense? That's where my problem lies.

Maybe for a year or two you can, but not for the entirety of the contract.

If we're looking at the NFL as a whole, sure it's possible to do so. As long as some of those pieces on defense are making dirt cheap rookie contract rates and making an impact on the field. Kevin Clark of The Ringer wrote an article "The NFL Has an Age Problem" that describes the stars and scrubs construction of NFL team's roster.... Link: https://theringer.com/the-nfl-has-an-age-problem-7068825845e4#.hzrhfsqzj

 

I liked what I saw from Bradford last year... During the mirage games up to the bye week, he was making confident, relatively deep passes. Probably career peak performance out of him so far. Once the OL crashed and burned, he was basically playing hot potato with the football.

 

Bigger priority right now is building a new OL... If that crashes and burns again next year, I don't think Bradford wants to stay in MN and the extension is a moot point. There are other teams that could prevent him from getting mauled every Sunday.

[TheLeviathan]

Yahoo sports has us taking Kamara with our second pick.  

 

Walter football has us taking:

 

Taylor Moton, Nazair Jones, Ethan Pocic, Ardarious Stewart, and Marlon Mack with our first five picks.  

 

I don't love Moton, I think his poor foot speed and athleticism is a bad combo.  I like Pocic as a choice in the third though.  Overall I wouldn't be real happy with that group.

[TheLeviathan]

Fusco and Harris are cut now, so only three OL under contract on the team at this point.

 

I'd really like to know what was going on with Harris.  And I'd still be open to bringing him back, he was pretty good in 2015.

[Mr. Brooks]

Fusco and Harris are cut now, so only three OL under contract on the team at this point.

 

I'd really like to know what was going on with Harris. And I'd still be open to bringing him back, he was pretty good in 2015.

The ambiguity around his injury (non football related head injury/illness), and the early release, I'd assume at this point, without more info, they don't expect him to play again.

[TheLeviathan]

That was my thought too.  There were some rumors it was cancer, but that whole situation was rather strange.  Especially after he came out publicly stating that he was ready to play, or wanted to.

[Vanimal46]

Fusco and Harris are cut now, so only three OL under contract on the team at this point.

 

I'd really like to know what was going on with Harris.  And I'd still be open to bringing him back, he was pretty good in 2015.

Harris has been an unsolved mystery for the last 12 months. I'd also bring him back if he's able to play.

 

Good luck to Fusco, but he'll be easily replaced. The Vikes gave him good starter money and he's not worth that.

 

Also, rumor has it that Cincinnati is targeting their 35 year old LT Andrew Whitworth to resign. And letting OG Kevin Zeitler test FA... If that's the case, he should be the #1 target for them to sign.

[Vanimal46]

That was my thought too.  There were some rumors it was cancer, but that whole situation was rather strange.  Especially after he came out publicly stating that he was ready to play, or wanted to.

Crossing fingers that is not the case... If it is a life altering illness, I hope he still has access to the league's insurance.

[Vanimal46]

The Vikings were mentioned in this article posted on The Ringer. Sounds like Slick Rick is planning on making a big splash in FA. 

[TheLeviathan]

Alright, so we have 40M available.  How do we spend it?

 

8-10M is going to have to be spent on a tackle.   Be it Reiff, Vollmer, Kalil, Beachum, Whitworth, Okung, or Wagner.  You have to land one of those guys.

 

8-10m is going to a guard.  I'm good with TJ Lang or Zeitler, but pony up.

 

That leaves 20M.  I think I look long and hard at a few DTs.  Bennie Logan might be a nice fit at a decent price.  Then unload Shariff Floyd and basically call it a wash.  

 

I'd like to resign Munnerlyn for probably 6M or so.  

 

After that, I'm not sure where the rest of the money go.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Rhodes get an extension also.

 

I think some of that 40MM is for draftees also.

 

Looks like Berger is retiring probably. I think they need 3 FA OL. 1 can be ok, but 2 should be good or great, imo.

[Steve Lein]

If they're looking for a sleeper-RB, one name I want to throw out there is the guy who made my NDSU team's LB's look silly in handing them their first home playoff defeat:

 

Khalid Abdullah, James Madison University.

 

Led FCS in rushing last year, had some good wiggle and speed. Not sure how his receiving game is rated, but he looked good on limited chances in the few games I saw him.

 

Late round flier, maybe?

[Vanimal46]

 

Rhodes get an extension also.

 

I think some of that 40MM is for draftees also.

 

Looks like Berger is retiring probably. I think they need 3 FA OL. 1 can be ok, but 2 should be good or great, imo.

 

The draftee pool shouldn't be that much unless if Slick Rick trades back into the first round. 

Levi's budget sounds about right. $8-12 MM for a good to great T, $8-10 MM for a good to great G or C, $3-5 MM on a decent G or C.  

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of money Rhodes gets. He's on the cusp of being considered a shut-down CB, I hope he doesn't expect shut-down CB money, otherwise that will get very expensive too in the $10-15 MM range. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Rhodes is a shutdown corner and will get shutdown corner money.

 

I expect Bradford to get an extension as well, though that likely won't increase his already high cap hit.

With the uncertainty of Bridgewater, you can't risk losing Bradford as an unrestricted free agent.

[Mike Sixel]

Rhodes already makes 7 or 8 MM....so shut down money isn't THAT much more, probably 4-5 MM per year.

 

I would extend Sam, and try to get his number to 15MM per year......that would actually be a reduction. But, it would be what ok-average QBs get.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Rhodes get an extension also.

 

I think some of that 40MM is for draftees also.

 

Looks like Berger is retiring probably. I think they need 3 FA OL. 1 can be ok, but 2 should be good or great, imo.

 

No, the 40M included draftees.  The actual number is about 38.

 

The simple truth is that it's going to be hard to sign 3 FA offensive linemen.  There is so much need, so much cash, and only so many guys.  I worry we'll even manage two significant signings.   I'm hopeful, but I worry as well.

 

I imagine Rhodes will ink something like a 5 year 70M contract.  That will be an increase of about 5-6M depending on the details.  So, yeah, that will eat up some of the salary cap room.

 

Griffin and Barr are guys that might be worth front-loading if there is further room.

[Mike Sixel]

I too think it will be hard to sign 3 FA OL. But a man can hope.

 

I'd be happy with an older LT that was mediocre, a really good RG and RT, and a drafted C early. Then, hope you can draft an OT later that can develop.

 

Like I said, a man can hope.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I too think it will be hard to sign 3 FA OL. But a man can hope.

 

I'd be happy with an older LT that was mediocre, a really good RG and RT, and a drafted C early. Then, hope you can draft an OT later that can develop.

 

Like I said, a man can hope.

 

I'm with you, aim for a solid tackle and Zeitler.

[Mr. Brooks]

Rhodes already makes 7 or 8 MM....so shut down money isn't THAT much more, probably 4-5 MM per year.

 

I would extend Sam, and try to get his number to 15MM per year......that would actually be a reduction. But, it would be what ok-average QBs get.

I doubt Bradford signs for any less than the $18 million per year that Osweiler got.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I doubt Bradford signs for any less than the $18 million per year that Osweiler got.

 

Fair, though Brock is going to be cut as soon as they can.....so there may be a lesson there for both sides. 

[Vanimal46]

Chad Greenway is going to retire. 11 years with the Vikes. Good luck to him in retirement!

[nicksaviking]

The Chargers released DJ Fluker. He didn't exactly live up to his draft hype but he's no slouch and a better RG or RT than the team has now (which actually might be nothing). Just another possibility for the O Line, there are starting to be some options thankfully.

 

I just don't want the team to give out real money to a RB. Spend the money on the line and gamble on a low money/league minimum deal for a RB. There isn't a back out there that doesn't look like a crap shoot anyway. Might be a good idea to spend a little bit on another DB also.