Dozier Trade Discussion Thread

[darin617]

Got to give LA credit for linking even more possible replacements trying to squeeze the Twins on a Dozier deal.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/rosenthals-dodgers-second-baseman-dozier-twins-profar-rangers-cesar-hernandez-phillies-wilmer-difo-nationals.html

 

Only player that would make sense would be Cesar Hernandez. But he is cheap and Philly could command a ransom close to what a Dozier deal would take. Only knock is that he doesn't have a track record to wonder if he is just a flash in the pan.

[beckmt]

The same article mentioned Profar as a likely candidate.  This may be pure troll or have some heat to it.  Would think Hernadez from Philly might even have a bigger price tag than Dozier.  I think that Dodgers may decide to move on or this could be just putting pressure on the Twins to fold. 

I am of the feeling of don't give in.  Misguess by the Dodgers in this line will put them behind the 8 ball by middle of next year.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Got to give LA credit for linking even more possible replacements trying to squeeze the Twins on a Dozier deal.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/rosenthals-dodgers-second-baseman-dozier-twins-profar-rangers-cesar-hernandez-phillies-wilmer-difo-nationals.html

 

Only player that would make sense would be Cesar Hernandez. But he is cheap and Philly could command a ransom close to what a Dozier deal would take. Only knock is that he doesn't have a track record to wonder if he is just a flash in the pan.

I don't know if I really trust Rosenthal much anymore. 

[laloesch]

 

I don't know if I really trust Rosenthal much anymore. 

 

Maybe, maybe not.  The Dodgers are just being greedy and foolish.  Their FO is so arrogant they think they can bully the Twins and other franchises into giving them star players for peanuts.  It's not gonna happen Friedman.  Put Alvarez and JDL on the table together and we'll get this done, if not SEE YA!!

[nicksaviking]

 

Maybe, maybe not.  The Dodgers are just being greedy and foolish.  Their FO is so arrogant they think they can bully the Twins and other franchises into giving them star players for peanuts.  It's not gonna happen Friedman.  Put Alvarez and JDL on the table together and we'll get this done, if not SEE YA!!

 

I don't know that they're being greedy. If we as Twins fans were in the same position we would want them to give up as little as possible also.

 

I'm glad the Twins are demanding more, but it's not like we are very cavalier with giving away our prospects either. It's January, I don't fault either team for drawing this out hoping something will trigger a more favorable deal; we have another two months if not longer before anyone from either side would even need to consider panicking.

[Squirrel]

 

Maybe, maybe not.  The Dodgers are just being greedy and foolish.  Their FO is so arrogant they think they can bully the Twins and other franchises into giving them star players for peanuts.  It's not gonna happen Friedman.  Put Alvarez and JDL on the table together and we'll get this done, if not SEE YA!!

There are those who could say the same of the Twins ... being greedy and foolish wanting more for Dozier. And there are some who think our FO is being arrogant trying to 'save face' to maximize a deal.

 

Perhaps we all should step back and not resort to this kind of assessment and judgement. No one knows for sure what has/hasn't been offered. Resorting to this kind of ... name-calling ... doesn't help. We were unable to reach a deal. I don't think it had anything to do with greed, foolishness, arrogance or bullying. Each side had a price in mind, likely each side had what they thought a fair price in mind. They couldn't make it work. And I think we've seen enough good discussion and rationale on both sides of this aisle without resorting to this kind of judgement because it didn't work out.

[Han Joelo]

Now that I think about it, given that this a mostly static situation, unless the Dodgers find someone else for 2B, I would be surprised for this to get done at all until a week or two before spring training.  They have each other over a barrel, and one or the other or even both FOs will look like they caved by dealing now.  When Aaron Rodgers fell to the Packers in the draft, they still used up their whole ten minutes before making the pick.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

Got to give LA credit for linking even more possible replacements trying to squeeze the Twins on a Dozier deal.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/rosenthals-dodgers-second-baseman-dozier-twins-profar-rangers-cesar-hernandez-phillies-wilmer-difo-nationals.html

 

Only player that would make sense would be Cesar Hernandez. But he is cheap and Philly could command a ransom close to what a Dozier deal would take. Only knock is that he doesn't have a track record to wonder if he is just a flash in the pan.

I said a week ago that Profar made sense.  The kid was the #1 prospect in baseball 3 years ago and is currently blocked due to no fault of his own.  He needs consistent AB's.  I'm not sure this is an attempt to squeeze anything out of the Twins.  While it is unfortunate for the Twins that there aren't more suitors for Dozier, the Dodgers do have other options to explore.  

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

Maybe, maybe not.  The Dodgers are just being greedy and foolish.  Their FO is so arrogant they think they can bully the Twins and other franchises into giving them star players for peanuts.  It's not gonna happen Friedman.  Put Alvarez and JDL on the table together and we'll get this done, if not SEE YA!!

I don't get this line of thinking.  How are they bullying the Twins.  The Dodgers made an offer they thought was fair and the Twins turned it down.  The Twins made an offer that they thought was fair and the Dodgers turned it down. I understand how a small market complex can happen, but it can also be said that teams think they can get more out of LA than other teams because of their cash flow and re-stocked minors.  That is exactly why the Dodgers hired Freidman and got rid of Coletti.  They don't mind spending money or trading prospects(look at the Oakland deal), but they aren't going to do it foolishly just because a small market team(or their fans) expects more out of LA.

 

It is every GM's responsibility to explore all options that make the team better.   I can't say that I have liked all of Friedman's and FAZ's moves, but one thing they have made a commitment to is depth and depth that is 40 man deep and not just 25.  If Alvarez had been on the table with JDL it would have been taken already in my opinion.  I just don't see them trading 2 of their top 3 prospects for Dozier.  Nor would 99% of Dodgers fans want them to make that trade.  I had to laugh when the word stingy was used recently.  The Dodgers aren't obligated to share their toys with the other kids.  This is pro baseball.  With all of the extra draft picks the small market teams get their minors could be stocked like the Cardinals have been in the past.  The Dodgers front office should explore deals for Dozier, Kinsler, Forsythe, Profar, Hernandez, Harrison w/McCutchen, Braun w/Gennett and then make the deal that makes them the strongest moving forward.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I don't know if I really trust Rosenthal much anymore. 

Rosenthal is the one who erroneously reported that Puig stormed off after not being allowed to board the team plane following his demotion to AAA.  After the truth came out that none of that happened he had to apologize. 

[mazeville]

 

I don't get this line of thinking.  How are they bullying the Twins.  The Dodgers made an offer they thought was fair and the Twins turned it down.  The Twins made an offer that they thought was fair and the Dodgers turned it down. I understand how a small market complex can happen, but it can also be said that teams think they can get more out of LA than other teams because of their cash flow and re-stocked minors.  That is exactly why the Dodgers hired Freidman and got rid of Coletti.  They don't mind spending money or trading prospects(look at the Oakland deal), but they aren't going to do it foolishly just because a small market team(or their fans) expects more out of LA.

 

It is every GM's responsibility to explore all options that make the team better.   I can't say that I have liked all of Friedman's and FAZ's moves, but one thing they have made a commitment to is depth and depth that is 40 man deep and not just 25.  If Alvarez had been on the table with JDL it would have been taken already in my opinion.  I just don't see them trading 2 of their top 3 prospects for Dozier.  Nor would 99% of Dodgers fans want them to make that trade.  I had to laugh when the word stingy was used recently.  The Dodgers aren't obligated to share their toys with the other kids.  This is pro baseball.  With all of the extra draft picks the small market teams get their minors could be stocked like the Cardinals have been in the past.  The Dodgers front office should explore deals for Dozier, Kinsler, Forsythe, Profar, Hernandez, Harrison w/McCutchen, Braun w/Gennett and then make the deal that makes them the strongest moving forward.

 

I will definitely agree with this. There's no bullying. The two sides just differ. The Twins, I think, have been caught in a situation in which there aren't as many bidders for Dozier's services than they originally thought. And the Dodgers are kind of stuck, I think, because nobody really comes close to as good a trade fit as Dozier. 

 

And indeed if Alvarez was on the table along with JDL the trade would have been done ages ago.

 

I doubt it happens -- because it should have happened by now. But it still makes more sense for the Dodgers to trade for Dozier. It'll be a bummer for both sides if it doesn't happen.

[nicksaviking]

 

Rosenthal is the one who erroneously reported that Puig stormed off after not being allowed to board the team plane following his demotion to AAA.  After the truth came out that none of that happened he had to apologize. 

 

 

I said a week ago that Profar made sense.  The kid was the #1 prospect in baseball 3 years ago and is currently blocked due to no fault of his own.  He needs consistent AB's.  I'm not sure this is an attempt to squeeze anything out of the Twins.  While it is unfortunate for the Twins that there aren't more suitors for Dozier, the Dodgers do have other options to explore.  

 

Well these posts are a bit related then as Rosenthal tweeted that the Nationals only targeted Adam Eaton after the Rangers were demanding Joe Ross in exchange for Profar. I can't link Twitter from work, but here's the MLBTR write up:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/trade-chatter-colome-mariners-wilson-profar.html

 

I'd think Ross would be as valuable if not more valuable than De Leon currently at least in the eyes of a GM due to his MLB success. So either Rosenthal is off base (which is possible) or the price for Profar isn't going to be markedly different than Dozier. To be fair to the Rangers, no one wants to sell low on their once promising prospects. I'd be upset if the Twins did that with Buxton.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I cannot imagine a scenario where Texas want's less for Profar than the Twins do for Dozier. Profar for JDL is selling low in my opinion.  Yeah, he needs at bats, no question there, but if Texas didn't have plans for him, that trade would have happened a couple years back when Profar was much more valuable.

[nicksaviking]

 

I cannot imagine a scenario where Texas want's less for Profar than the Twins do for Dozier. Profar for JDL is selling low in my opinion.  Yeah, he needs at bats, no question there, but if Texas didn't have plans for him, that trade would have happened a couple years back when Profar was much more valuable.

 

Well that's probably because everyone in the Rangers front office has no clue what they're doing. Oh, wait......

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I cannot imagine a scenario where Texas want's less for Profar than the Twins do for Dozier. Profar for JDL is selling low in my opinion.  Yeah, he needs at bats, no question there, but if Texas didn't have plans for him, that trade would have happened a couple years back when Profar was much more valuable.

To be honest I'm not sure what the going rate would be for Profar.  I've read conflicting reports.  JDL would be pretty close to Ross.  Texas might be more interested in someone like Calhoun or Verdugo or whatever second piece they floated to the Twins.  Profar wasn't moved when he was the top prospect because they thought he would be starting at SS or 2B.  Odor ran with his opportunity while Profar re-habbed his surgery.  

 

I think JDL and Stewart is a fair deal for Dozier.  The Dodgers are just in a place where it is hard to give up the two most ready prospects they have due to the uncertainty of Kazmir, Ryu, McCarthy, Wood, and even Maeda. I think if Buehler or Alvarez were at AA the Dodgers wouldn't be so hesitant to move Stewart if that is really the case.  

[darin617]

 

I said a week ago that Profar made sense.  The kid was the #1 prospect in baseball 3 years ago and is currently blocked due to no fault of his own.  He needs consistent AB's.  I'm not sure this is an attempt to squeeze anything out of the Twins.  While it is unfortunate for the Twins that there aren't more suitors for Dozier, the Dodgers do have other options to explore.  

 

Profar doesn't make sense for any team with his history injuries. He has missed so much time with shoulder surgery and I believe he may see some action at 1st base. Has to be a red flag and buyer beware.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

 

I don't know that they're being greedy. If we as Twins fans were in the same position we would want them to give up as little as possible also.

 

I'm glad the Twins are demanding more, but it's not like we are very cavalier with giving away our prospects either. It's January, I don't fault either team for drawing this out hoping something will trigger a more favorable deal; we have another two months if not longer before anyone from either side would even need to consider panicking.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't think the Twins will be panicking if they don't get the Dodgers' pitchers. I think the Dodgers might be panicking about not getting a star 2B...

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Profar doesn't make sense for any team with his history injuries. He has missed so much time with shoulder surgery and I believe he may see some action at 1st base. Has to be a red flag and buyer beware.

Without looking, I think his exit velocity was pretty low, he is better vs RHP (not what the Dodgers are looking for), is injury prone, and has used quite a bit of service time up already.

[darin617]

I just can't see how it would make sense to trade Dozier who has put up 4 solid seasons in a row for only 1 prospect who dominated in the minors.

 

How many "can't miss" pitching prospects could not make the next step and be that same pitcher in the majors?

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the going rate would be for Profar.  I've read conflicting reports.  JDL would be pretty close to Ross.  Texas might be more interested in someone like Calhoun or Verdugo or whatever second piece they floated to the Twins.  Profar wasn't moved when he was the top prospect because they thought he would be starting at SS or 2B.  Odor ran with his opportunity while Profar re-habbed his surgery.  

 

I think JDL and Stewart is a fair deal for Dozier.  The Dodgers are just in a place where it is hard to give up the two most ready prospects they have due to the uncertainty of Kazmir, Ryu, McCarthy, Wood, and even Maeda. I think if Buehler or Alvarez were at AA the Dodgers wouldn't be so hesitant to move Stewart if that is really the case.  

JDL, Stewart and one or two lottery ticket players. 

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

Without looking, I think his exit velocity was pretty low, he is better vs RHP (not what the Dodgers are looking for), is injury prone, and has used quite a bit of service time up already.

He has three years of team control.  I'm not sure if he's injury prone or not.  He had labrum surgery which I also had in late November.  I can empathize with anyone trying to return to pro baseball from that surgery.  From the scouting reports that I read, the main difference has been velocity on his throws from short.  

 

As for him playing 1B, it isn't because he can't play the other infield positions, it's because of guys named Andrus, Odor, and Beltre.  The kid needs to settle into one spot and be given consistent AB's.  If Texas signs Napoli then they're wasting his talents and value having him as a reserve or utility player.  

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I just can't see how it would make sense to trade Dozier who has put up 4 solid seasons in a row for only 1 prospect who dominated in the minors.

 

How many "can't miss" pitching prospects could not make the next step and be that same pitcher in the majors?

We all know that there was more than just JDL on the table, but we aren't privy to the names unless Dave's source has it right.

[doscinco]

 

I don't know about you, but I don't think the Twins will be panicking if they don't get the Dodgers' pitchers. I think the Dodgers might be panicking about not getting a star 2B...

Dozier has always been a luxury to the Dodgers. They have an above average position players at C, SS, CF, 1B, 3B, RF (just on Puig's defense at least) to go along with a high end and deep pitching staff. They just need someone to be close to Utley's production of last year.

 

On the other hand, the Twins haven't had a worth wild young SP make a difference in a decade+. Their desperation for good young SP had been well documented. I don't think they're are panicking, but they can't keep running out 90+ loss seasons w/ a relatively new ballpark.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Dozier has always been a luxury to the Dodgers. They have an above average position players at C, SS, CF, 1B, 3B, RF (just on Puig's defense at least) to go along with a high end and deep pitching staff. They just need someone to be close to Utley's production of last year.

luxury maybe, but given their production at 2B, he's a huge upgrade.  That line of reasoning is the kind that will haunt them later.

[TheLeviathan]

 

luxury maybe, but given their production at 2B, he's a huge upgrade.  That line of reasoning is the kind that will haunt them later.

 

Perhaps, that sort of depends on a variety of factors doesn't it?

 

Either way, I think he's right to suggest this is more luxury for the Dodgers and more need for the Twins.

[doscinco]

The other problem is that there is no need to make a desperation move this late into the off-season. The deadline to make a trade is still 6 months away. 

[jimmer]

 

The other problem is that there is no need to make a desperation move this late into the off-season. The deadline to make a trade is still 6 months away. 

Rarely does a position player garner more value at the trade deadline than he would in the offseason. Premium trade deadline prices show up almost exclusively with pitchers.

[Mike Sixel]

I just can't see how it would make sense to trade Dozier who has put up 4 solid seasons in a row for only 1 prospect who dominated in the minors.

 

How many "can't miss" pitching prospects could not make the next step and be that same pitcher in the majors?

So do what to get better?

[darin617]

 

So do what to get better?

I meant to say Twins need more than 1 prospect to make it worth moving Dozier.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Rarely does a position player garner more value at the trade deadline than he would in the offseason. Premium trade deadline prices show up almost exclusively with pitchers.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but he might have been talking about the Dodgers.  If the argument is "they have to do something to win the WS" they do have about 6 months to make such a decision.