Dozier Trade Discussion Thread

[jimmer]

 

Wouldn't that be a negotiating technique?

 

"Here's De Loen. Now go sign that guy Travis Wood. He's a free agent, you know".

yeah, that'd be awesome :-)

 

As far as Alex goes, their rotation was full when he came back so they put him in the pen.  I like him (not in a trade for Dozier though)

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I like Alex Wood, but pitching 4 innings since May leaves me a little concerned.

 

I'm sure you can understand that.

Absolutely I understand.  I felt bad for the guy last year.  He really seemed to have hit his stride when he had to have the impingement in his elbow fixed.  He didn't have enough time to get stretched out prior to the playoffs.  There's always been a lot of debate on the Dodgers boards on whether he's a 3, 4, or 5 when healthy in most rotations.  I think he's a nice 2nd or 3rd piece in this type of deal.  People tend to forget how young he is still.  

[jimmer]

 

Absolutely I understand.  I felt bad for the guy last year.  He really seemed to have hit his stride when he had to have the impingement in his elbow fixed.  He didn't have enough time to get stretched out prior to the playoffs.  There's always been a lot of debate on the Dodgers boards on whether he's a 3, 4, or 5 when healthy in most rotations.  I think he's a nice 2nd or 3rd piece in this type of deal.  People tend to forget how young he is still.  

He's hitting his arbitration years and only has 3 years of control left.  He'd be okay as a 3rd piece, but certainly not a #2 piece (due to price going up and only 3 years of control left). For me, I want the first two pieces to combine for 12 years of control. 

 

He's a #3 starter type pitcher when healthy.  Whether or not that means he's a #3 on a loaded rotation or not is a different argument.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Absolutely I understand.  I felt bad for the guy last year.  He really seemed to have hit his stride when he had to have the impingement in his elbow fixed.  He didn't have enough time to get stretched out prior to the playoffs.  There's always been a lot of debate on the Dodgers boards on whether he's a 3, 4, or 5 when healthy in most rotations.  I think he's a nice 2nd or 3rd piece in this type of deal.  People tend to forget how young he is still.  

I'd take him as an additional piece in a heartbeat.

Tough timing for him. His K/9 was up, WHIP was down and FIP was down almost a whole run from 2015. Yes, I'd take him as a secondary piece without thinking twice.

[CiabanItReal]

 

I don't know what the Twins have been offered right now.

I also don't know what the Orioles or Angels can offer in the future.

I'm trying to say the landscape will change because it always does and you are trying to make me project the current landscape into that changed landscape.

Could it be worse for the Dozier market? Yes
Could it be better. Yes

The only thing I know is that it obviously isn't good enough right now because no deal has been made despite an obvious fit.

People keep posting... His value will never be higher. There is this desperation from some to trade him now to maximize his value.

It's like... they want to maximize his value so badly that they are willing to minimize his value to do so.

I'm saying it's not prudent to bet on the landscape changing for the positive, because come July the only thing we will know for certain is that Dozier will have less time on his contract than he has now.

A. I didn't bring the Angels into the discussion.

 

B.  What evidence am I ignoring?

No one is saying you did, I brought them up.

 

And I brought them up for a reason, the keep Dozier crowd keeps bringing up that the market could change, and lists teams like the mets (while completely ignoring the lack of fit there) as potential suitors for Dozier, but we as fans don't get to chose who needs a 2nd basemen, it would be great if it was the yankees who have a great minor league system, but it just as likely could be the Orioles who have a terrible minor league system.

[CiabanItReal]

 

I guess I would say that if the Twins had just lost the ALCS, had a clear hole at 2b, and had significant pitching depth in the minors, that they wouldn't hesitate to move De Leon for such a huge upgrade.

And they're not hesitating to offer him since he's one of the few pieces everyone agrees was offered.

I'm not convinced De Leon is even a must-have for the Twins. All along it's felt to me like Friedman selling high on De Leon because he doesn't really believe in him.

Or friedman understands he can't build a trade around Calhoun or Verdugo.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I don't think Stewart is off the table.  I think he's off the table as a second piece in this deal due to the injury histories of Kazmir, Ryu, and McCarthy.

 

No interest in Wood Twins fans?  I think he would be a nice pick up myself. 

 

I think that officially makes him off the table then.     Twins need ML ready pitching.  It would be very hard to turn down a deal headlined by JDL and Stewart.  With Buehler considered to be a fast rise, and all those other guys competing for spots, I don't LA is going to have serious problems there... but personally, if that's the issue, I'd be more than happy to send Santiago your way.  I think the Twins would too.

[CiabanItReal]

 

It can look like "one outlier season"

 

It also can look like a 4 year trend upward. 

 

If I'm the Dodgers... Dozier is the guy I'd want and he'd bat 3rd in the lineup behind Seager and in front of A Gon. 

They really need a lead off hitter more.

It was, no question about it. I find it odd though that the Dodgers haven't leaked anything indicating they've offered more, and the people close to their organization have been saying the same thing too. 

They never really do, that's just the organization the Hill/Reddick trade came out of nowhere last year.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

They never really do, that's just the organization the Hill/Reddick trade came out of nowhere last year.

 

That may be so, but they haven't hesitated to use the press thus far. 

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

I think that officially makes him off the table then.     Twins need ML ready pitching.  It would be very hard to turn down a deal headlined by JDL and Stewart.  With Buehler considered to be a fast rise, and all those other guys competing for spots, I don't LA is going to have serious problems there... but personally, if that's the issue, I'd be more than happy to send Santiago your way.  I think the Twins would too.

Yeah.. The Dodgers need pitchers like the Angels need a center fielder.

[CiabanItReal]

 

That may be so, but they haven't hesitated to use the press thus far. 

It seems like the twins front office has been using the press much more than the dodgers.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It seems like the twins front office has been using the press much more than the dodgers.

 

I agree, but it has most definitely not been a one sided thing.  LA could quite easily come out and say what is on the table. If they had a decent offer, they would, especially since they have been using the press.

[darin617]

 

I agree, but it has most definitely not been a one sided thing.  LA could quite easily come out and say what is on the table. If they had a decent offer, they would, especially since they have been using the press.

There would only be half truth in whatever they released. It would be foolish to say this is exactly what the Twins thought was an inferior offer. It is easy for the Twins to come out and say they want all the top trade chips the Dodgers have to offer for Dozier.

 

It also feels like there must be a red flag about JDL if LA is so willing to deal him away. If he is ranked by some as one of the top pitching prospects in the game why would they be so willing to deal him away?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If he is ranked by some as one of the top pitching prospects in the game why would they be so willing to deal him away?

I'm also mildly concerned about JDL but it's not because the Dodgers are willing to trade him.

 

The Dodgers are loaded with arms up and down the organization. It takes talent to acquire talent. Trading JDL makes sense because he's as expendable as a prospect of his calibre can be to the 2017 Dodgers.

 

We're talking about a franchise that already has Julio Urias and Clayton Kershaw.

[Major League Ready]

How about Alvarez / Stewart / Wood?

 

or

 

Is there some combination of Alvarez / Stewart / Wood / Buehler that both teams could agree upon?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

How about Alvarez / Stewart / Wood?

 

or

 

Is there some combination of Alvarez / Stewart / Wood / Buehler that both teams could agree upon?

 

Not sure Wood is the best fit, but honestly, I'd still probably take something along these lines.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Is there some combination of Alvarez / Stewart / Wood / Buehler that both teams could agree upon?

To get you up to speed, the Dodgers have refused to include Alvarez or Buehler in offers.

 

The combination of Stewart and Wood is probably acceptable to the Dodgers, though Wood is a pretty uninspiring piece if you're the Twins. In my opinion, Wood doesn't really differentiate himself from the group of Hughes/Berrios/Santiago/May/Duffey/Meija/etc. who figure to compete for three of the rotation spots.

[darin617]

 

 

 

We're talking about a franchise that already has Julio Urias and Clayton Kershaw.

 

So that would make 2 solid starters if Urias lives up to the hype and if they can find a creative way to keep his innings down. Beyond them the Dodgers rotation is filled with either a bunch of injury risks or slightly washed up starters that you would expect to be playing for the Twins and not the Dodgers. This would be more like mid 2017 staff.

 

1. Kershaw

2. Maeda

3. Hill

4. Urias

5. Stewart, JDL, Stripling

 

So I guess LA could deal JDL & Alvarez and still be in good shape.

 

 

 

[TyTY23]

 

 

 

 

We're talking about a franchise that already has Julio Urias and Clayton Kershaw.

 

So that would make 2 solid starters if Urias lives up to the hype and if they can find a creative way to keep his innings down. Beyond them the Dodgers rotation is filled with either a bunch of injury risks or slightly washed up starters that you would expect to be playing for the Twins and not the Dodgers. This would be more like mid 2017 staff.

 

1. Kershaw

2. Maeda

3. Hill

4. Urias

5. Stewart, JDL, Stripling

 

So I guess LA could deal JDL & Alvarez and still be in good shape.

 

Do your research on Hill. Despite not logging in a lot of innings, he has been one of the most dominant pitchers when he has pitched. You also contradicted yourself. If the Dodgers have a lot of injury prone and "washed up" pitchers, then why would they trade two of their young pitchers that could step in when? 

[specialiststeve]

I am very Happy with our Front  office. They made it very clear when they started the process of putting him on the market that they would need to be "very motivated" by an offer if they were going to move  Dozier. We can all discuss "our" opinion of the situation but I think the fact that they are sticking to what they said and unless getting a great offer they will hold off.

 

They would like this to be done but the reality is that they will continue to field offers and  if the right fit comes about  Dozier will be moved. If not he will stay and be a part of this years team. We all seem to forget that 2 years ago we were on the verge of a playoff birth and everyone  was gung ho. It is possible that the young guns put it together and the vet pitching bounces back and we again could be in position for a wildcard spot. Likely maybe not but possible.

 

Also we have some very nice pitching prospects that folks seem to not have any confidence in... I do.

 

Keep  steadfast front office and get only what is a great deal if not we are good keeping our stud.

 

Stud for possible stud or possible dud that has had possible arm issues is just not very good logic.

[Major League Ready]

 

To get you up to speed, the Dodgers have refused to include Alvarez or Buehler in offers.

The combination of Stewart and Wood is probably acceptable to the Dodgers, though Wood is a pretty uninspiring piece if you're the Twins. In my opinion, Wood doesn't really differentiate himself from the group of Hughes/Berrios/Santiago/May/Duffey/Meija/etc. who figure to compete for three of the rotation spots.

They refused to include Alvarez or Buehler with JDL.  Therefore, it might make sense for the two teams to explore where JDL is not the starting point.  

[Trueblue222]

In whatever trade the Dodgers make to improve 2B/hitting vs LHP I see DeLeon being the main piece. The reason being that as a contending team they don't want to have two rookies in their 5 man rotation. They want to hold onto pitchers such as Alvarez and Beuhler to fill needs they will have in the next 2 to 3 years. Maybe the Twins and Dodgers just aren't as good of a match for this trade as both fan bases think? It might make more sense for the Dodgers to look to Milwaukee who is open to moving players like Braun and Scooter Gennett. Interested to see how this next month plays out for sure...

[TyTY23]

 

 

 

 

We're talking about a franchise that already has Julio Urias and Clayton Kershaw.

 

So that would make 2 solid starters if Urias lives up to the hype and if they can find a creative way to keep his innings down. Beyond them the Dodgers rotation is filled with either a bunch of injury risks or slightly washed up starters that you would expect to be playing for the Twins and not the Dodgers. This would be more like mid 2017 staff.

 

1. Kershaw

2. Maeda

3. Hill

4. Urias

5. Stewart, JDL, Stripling

 

So I guess LA could deal JDL & Alvarez and still be in good shape.

 

I read it twice, and it still doesn't change the fact that you said that the Dodgers have just "2 solid starters": Kershaw and Urias. I was just stating that Hill was more than a solid starter.

 

As for your second statement, you mentioned that "beyond them", I infer you still mean Kershaw and Urias, that the Dodgers are filled with injury prone pitchers. My rebuttal was simply, then why would the Dodgers trade two pitchers with the possibility of pitchers getting injured?    

[Trevor0333]

The market for Dozier just never manifested into allowing them to get a big return. I agree that JDL alone is not enough for Dozier but JDL is the type of pitching prospect the Twins should be going after.

 

Dodgers still need a 2B and the Twins have a logjam. A DeLeon for Jorge Polanco & Byung-Ho Park deal makes a lot of sense for both teams IMO.

[Rhino and Compass]

 

The market for Dozier just never manifested into allowing them to get a big return. I agree that JDL alone is not enough for Dozier but JDL is the type of pitching prospect the Twins should be going after.

 

Dodgers still need a 2B and the Twins have a logjam. A DeLeon for Jorge Polanco & Byung-Ho Park deal makes a lot of sense for both teams IMO.

 

I would so much rather have Polanco on his rookie deal or even early in arbitration for 2019-2022 than Dozier with an extension and in his mid 30s. Part of what makes trading away Dozier so appealing is that the Twins should have zero interest in extending him after his contract expires.

[DaveW]

Just reported an update via twitter: basically talks between clubs are getting re-engaged. 

[drjim]

 

Just reported an update via twitter: basically talks between clubs are getting re-engaged. 

 

George Bush endorses this post:

 

[rghrbek]

 

Just reported an update via twitter: basically talks between clubs are getting re-engaged. 

And the race to 3,000 comments is back on,

 

Thanks for the update Dave!

[HitInAPinch]

 

Just reported an update via twitter: basically talks between clubs are getting re-engaged. 

It's damn well about time!  And from your Twitter report, it was the Dodgers that pinged the Twins.  I like that even more!

[darin617]

 

Just reported an update via twitter: basically talks between clubs are getting re-engaged. 

I predicted and hope to be right with Wednesday a deal in place to send Dozier to LA.