Hi everyone, first time poster, long time lurker.

 

I don't understand the need for MLB ready pitching specifically. I like De Leon and I'd be happy with him as a trade centerpiece. However, I think the Twins should simply look to maximize value rather than target a lower quality player, simply because they're close to MLB.

 

I'd love to see a JDL + Alvarez package come to Minnesota. The Twins farm system is not depleted by any means, but with the graduation of several youngsters, I think the lower levels could stand to be replenished with a guy like Alvarez + #1 draft pick. I'd rather build a sustainable farm system with high upside prospects scattered across several levels.

 

If Dozier isn't traded this offseason, the speculation on the offers that may or may not have been received one way or the other, will be WILD.
 

I couldn't agree with this more. If Leon and Alvarez are already on the table, this deal should be all but done. Throw in one of Dodgers outfield prospects (they have plenty) and call it a day. We have are own pitching prospects who are close to the majors. They need innings, so there's no reason to push for mlb ready starting pitchers. The pitching has been behind the hitting for years. 

I'd add that we should trade Santana now for the same reasons, but that should probably be put in another thread.

 

No, no, no, no, no. I disagree. You are settling. Alvarez is in rookie ball – he's at least two years away from reaching the major leagues. Do you know how many rookie league players – even really good prospects - never make it to the major leagues?

 

Dozier is a known commodity. He hit 42 home runs last year. He plays a very capable 2B, and hits with power, and has a club-friendly contract.

 

The Twins need a lot more than De Leon and Alvarez. At least one more MLB-ready pitcher.

 

Yes, the Twins need starting pitching. Yes, it would be good to trade Dozier for De Leon, another MLB-ready starter and prospects. But don't settle for less than the best.

 

Dozier is an integral part of the Twins offense – and an important asset. They should get considerable assets back for him.

Every time a Twins fan wants to pump Dozier, they point to the 42 HR's.  Given the way today's game is looked at, HR's aren't THAT exciting.  To be honest, when I see the 42 HR's, I see Dave Kingman's 1979 when he pumped 48 HR's.  Kingman had a few years where he pumped the OBP up to the .340-ish range but he was otherwise a 1-trick pony.  Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had.  Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's. 

Edited December 21, 20169 yr by DodgerFan1234

 

I don't think anyone has said this but I think there are some who think we should get the greatest package or not trade, and some who would be okay with a less than greatest package because now is the time

I'm sure the mod's will be the happiest of all when the Great Dozier War of 2016 ends.  Hopefully (for everyone's sake) the Belligerents (Dodgers/Twins) don't extend their skirmish to 2017.

 

I don't think they even care who wins the conflict at this point!

Edited December 21, 20169 yr by DodgerFan1234

Every time a Twins fan wants to pump Dozier, they point to the 42 HR's.  Given the way today's game is looked at, HR's aren't THAT exciting.  To be honest, when I see the 42 HR's, I see Dave Kingman's 1979 when he pumped 48 HR's.  Kingman had a few years where he pumped the OBP up to the .340-ish range but he was otherwise a 1-trick pony.  Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had.  Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's.

 

Except, Kingman had negative value defensively. Dozier was worth 5.9 war last year, while Kingman was worth 3.7 in 1979.

 

Except, Kingman had negative value defensively. Dozier was worth 5.9 war last year, while Kingman was worth 3.7 in 1979.

 

I said

"Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had.  Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's."

 

 

I'm sure the mod's will be the happiest of all when the Great Dozier War of 2016 ends. Hopefully (for everyone's sake) the Belligerents (Dodgers/Twins) don't extend their skirmish to 2017.

 

I don't think they even care who wins the conflict at this point!

Sure they care. Twins fans want to win

I said

"Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had. Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's."

Hmmm ... better defense AND home runs? Seems like a good combo to me. I can see not getting glazy-eyed if it were one or the other. Just sayin' ... but I'm one of those that wants the greatest trade or no trade.

I said

"Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had.  Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's."

You are right, just saying. And I do fall in the category that I want a trade to happen. Will be good to get this done

No, no, no, no, no. I disagree. You are settling. Alvarez is in rookie ball – he's at least two years away from reaching the major leagues. Do you know how many rookie league players – even really good prospects - never make it to the major leagues?

 

Dozier is a known commodity. He hit 42 home runs last year. He plays a very capable 2B, and hits with power, and has a club-friendly contract.

 

The Twins need a lot more than De Leon and Alvarez. At least one more MLB-ready pitcher.

 

Yes, the Twins need starting pitching. Yes, it would be good to trade Dozier for De Leon, another MLB-ready starter and prospects. But don't settle for less than the best.

 

Dozier is an integral part of the Twins offense – and an important asset. They should get considerable assets back for him.

And every other year he hit between 20-28 HRs. Pumping up an abberation doesent do much for the other side in the negotiation.

 

It's like the Twins at the July deadline saying "Are you INSANE?! Why don't you want Suzuki? He hit .300 one year!"

 

Hmmm ... better defense AND home runs? Seems like a good combo to me. I can see not getting glazy-eyed if it were one or the other. Just sayin' ... but I'm one of those that wants the greatest trade or no trade.

 

And the hair.  I cannot believe that you of all people forgot the hair. 

 

I want Deleon and Stewart as the top two names of any deal for Dozier. Would I like Alvarez yes, but I just don't think the Dodgers want to part with him and that is what is hold back commencing anything.
 

 

I have nothing against the new Twins brass. But I would if they followed that line of thinking.

 

No De Leon and Alvarez? Thanks, but we'll keep Dozier and see if Sano and Buxton grow enough to help us to 80 wins.

 

And every other year he hit between 20-28 HRs. Pumping up an abberation doesent do much for the other side in the negotiation.

It's like the Twins at the July deadline saying "Are you INSANE?! Why don't you want Suzuki? He hit .300 one year!"

 

I'd put it more this way. The last Dodgers second baseman to have a season as good as Dozier's second best Twins season (2014) was Steve Sax. They can talk aberration. But Dozier is in the middle of a pretty solid run.

Seems like there is a lot of difference in values on TwinsDaily regarding what the return should be for Dozier.

Seems like there is a lot of difference in values on TwinsDaily regarding what the return should be for Dozier.

Yes

I'd put it more this way. The last Dodgers second baseman to have a season as good as Dozier's second best Twins season (2014) was Steve Sax. They can talk aberration. But Dozier is in the middle of a pretty solid run.

Yes, he's had a fine run the last couple of years. But can we please have some perspective on this thread? The poster I replied too has mentioned before 2 MLB/ MLB ready starters or no deal. Dozier is a luxury addition for the Dodgers. Would they like to have a power hitting 2B? Sure, anyone would. Do they need him to make the playoffs? No. Do they need him to make the NLCS? Probably not.

 

All I've been saying is the Twins need the Dodgers prospects more than the Dodgers need Dozier.

 

I'd put it more this way. The last Dodgers second baseman to have a season as good as Dozier's second best Twins season (2014) was Steve Sax. They can talk aberration. But Dozier is in the middle of a pretty solid run.

This is 100% correct.  It's a good thing then that 1 player does not make or break a team.

 

Seems like there is a lot of difference in values on TwinsDaily regarding what the return should be for Dozier.

like every other topic ever, there are differences of opinion here.

Dozier was one of the best 15 players in baseball last year, he is on a very team freindly contract and is still in his prime.

 

Yes last year was a career year thus far for him, but let's not pretend this is some insane luck driven aberration for him.

 

His upside is the best 2B in baseball and a 5.5-7.0 WAR type.

 

His floor is a 20-25 hr guy who is 2.5-3.0 WAR guy.

 

His middle ground is a 3.5-5.0 WAR guy.

 

That carries a ton of value IMO.

Yes, he's had a fine run the last couple of years. But can we please have some perspective on this thread? The poster I replied too has mentioned before 2 MLB/ MLB ready starters or no deal. Dozier is a luxury addition for the Dodgers. Would they like to have a power hitting 2B? Sure, anyone would. Do they need him to make the playoffs? No. Do they need him to make the NLCS? Probably not.

 

All I've been saying is the Twins need the Dodgers prospects more than the Dodgers need Dozier.

Call it a luxury all you want, the reality is the Dodgers are well behind the Cubs right now in the NL pecking order.

 

That is not ideal for a win now team who outspends everyone else in baseball. When was the last time the Dodgers won a World Series or made the World Series?

 

They absolutely need another impact bat if they want to be elite.

Dozier is the perfect fit for them.

 

Call it a luxury all you want, the reality is the Dodgers are well behind the Cubs right now in the NL pecking order.

That is not ideal for a win now team who outspends everyone else in baseball. When was the last time the Dodgers won a World Series or made the World Series?

They absolutely need another impact bat if they want to be elite.
Dozier is the perfect fit for them.

I don't believe that's true.  Dodgers are right there with the Cubs, IMO.

 

All I've been saying is the Twins need the Dodgers prospects more than the Dodgers need Dozier.

Maybe.  The Dodgers really need someone who can hit LH pitching which is probably the main reason they want Dozier.

 

They need to get over the hump fairly soon and Dozier makes too much sense for them to act like he's just a luxury item for them.  Their offense was middle of the road last year in the NL and Kershaw had some injuries.  Their bullpen has a lot of room for regression and SF looks better on paper. 

Could all the rumors be exactly that? Is it possible the Twins told the Dodgers from Day 1 at the Winter Meetings that any trade started with Urias? And the reason it isn't done is the Dodgers keep testing them with offers A, B, C, etc. But the Twins two young guns are holding to their demand and won't pull the trigger until the Dodgers agree to include Urias?

 

Just saying, anything could be true!

 

I'd put it more this way. The last Dodgers second baseman to have a season as good as Dozier's second best Twins season (2014) was Steve Sax. They can talk aberration. But Dozier is in the middle of a pretty solid run.

How did Jeff Kent's year compare to Dozier?

 

How did Jeff Kent's year compare to Dozier?

If you look at the last 4 years of Dozier and the 4 years of Kent in LA, by WAR those seasons would go:

Dozier - 6.5

Dozier - 5.2

Dozier/Kent - 3.7 tie

Dozier - 2.4

Kent - 2.1

Kent - 0.7

Kent - 0.1

 

Kent's offensive numbers are in a slightly better offensive era so they aren't quite as impressive as they'd be today. 

I'm sticking with my prediction, Dozier for JDL, Alverez, and Chris Anderson.

 

Could all the rumors be exactly that? Is it possible the Twins told the Dodgers from Day 1 at the Winter Meetings that any trade started with Urias? And the reason it isn't done is the Dodgers keep testing them with offers A, B, C, etc. But the Twins two young guns are holding to their demand and won't pull the trigger until the Dodgers agree to include Urias?

Just saying, anything could be true!

I think the Twins have a higher probability of getting the 1965 WS trophy from the Dodgers than they do of getting Urias. 

Kent at that age wasn't the defensive player any more that Dozier is currently, offensively I'd call them a wash (for Kent's first couple seasons in LA anyway).

 

Could all the rumors be exactly that? Is it possible the Twins told the Dodgers from Day 1 at the Winter Meetings that any trade started with Urias? And the reason it isn't done is the Dodgers keep testing them with offers A, B, C, etc. But the Twins two young guns are holding to their demand and won't pull the trigger until the Dodgers agree to include Urias?

Just saying, anything could be true!

I would assume the Twins knew Urias was untouchable going in. 

Could all the rumors be exactly that? Is it possible the Twins told the Dodgers from Day 1 at the Winter Meetings that any trade started with Urias? And the reason it isn't done is the Dodgers keep testing them with offers A, B, C, etc. But the Twins two young guns are holding to their demand and won't pull the trigger until the Dodgers agree to include Urias?Just saying, anything could be true!

Sure. Obviously the Twins FO hasn't heard what they want or a deal would've been struck. Who really is the bottleneck is really anyone's guess. The FO has said from the beginning they want to be blown away or no trade and I, for one, agree with that, while others do not. All we can do is wait and see and in the meantime, speculate and debate away ... civilly of course.

Sure. Obviously the Twins FO hasn't heard what they want or a deal would've been struck. Who really is the bottleneck is really anyone's guess. The FO has said from the beginning they want to be blown away or no trade and I, for one, agree with that, while others do not. All we can do is wait and see and in the meantime, speculate and debate away ... civilly of course.

And who is the only young prospect the Dodgers have that would be considered...blown away? If they are speaking of quality over quantity, it would be Urias!