POTUS Donald Trump

[Mike Sixel]

And the republicans win again. Let me know when the USA pulls its head out of its as@

[twinsnorth49]

What a ****ed up place.

 

No offense.

[gunnarthor]

Man, I'm really scared that the GOP will end the ACA and people with pre-existing conditions are going to get ****ed. I figured if Ossof won, the GOP would think twice but now, I think we're in real trouble.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Man, I'm really scared that the GOP will end the ACA and people with pre-existing conditions are going to get ****ed. I figured if Ossof won, the GOP would think twice but now, I think we're in real trouble.

 

But it won't take effect until after the 2018 elections, that's what I'd do.....as if it would matter. Liberals don't vote at a high enough rate, and the right has brainwashed the masses that taxes are evil and that only "others" get government handouts....

[Champuckett]

 

I'm pretty sure he is moving America to the left. Look at these special elections and polling numbers. The majority of Americans dislike Trump already, unless a miracle happens the gop is going to lose a lot of ground the next 2 elections.

 

You were saying..  Polling numbers were wrong, again.  We have to stop trusting these institutions, like the polling companies.  The RCP, one of the most "trusted" and used aggregate polling groups was wrong by about 10 points.  

 

Not speaking directly to the quoted user, but to everyone that has participated in this thread in general: Why put faith into these organizations that don't know what they are doing?  The pundits were proven wrong for the presidential election with their many predictions.  Again, why trust these people?  Use your own common sense and investigate matters that are important to you independently.  Maybe some do, maybe some don't, but it seems a lot of what I have read here I could have found on any of the major corporate news web sites or on TV.

 

The information we are all receiving from television and political news is designed to incite division and not reveal what's really going on.  Division has never been higher in this country and not so coincidentally the lies in the news are at an all time high as well.  It doesn't matter what political affiliation you come from, you can be liberal or conservative and see that this is happening right now.  We should be more concerned with what the media is doing to the culture, to the increasing division, and to our way of life.

 

I doubt I'm going to reach many with this message.  We are all set in our ways and old habits die hard.  But for the sake of the future, it might be wise to start moving away from the news media institutions that have been dictating how the majority of public information has been circulated in this country for the last 60 years.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I doubt I'm going to reach many with this message.  We are all set in our ways and old habits die hard.  But for the sake of the future, it might be wise to start moving away from the news media institutions that have been dictating how the majority of public information has been circulated in this country for the last 60 years.

Well, where should we look for our news on issues that stretch beyond our own direct knowledge? Whether it's radio, some internet forum, or some passaround pamphlet.  It's all "media."   It's all secondhand information, prone to the bias of others, and often delivered in for-profit models.   If you ask us to look at the people around us, and what they have to say, well, I think we're all doing that (but I also hope we all realize how insular and limited-in-perspective our personal circles are, especially in late adulthood). 

 

And, it looks like you're new around here, so you'll just have to take my word for it, but the posters around here possess a healthy dose of cynicism, and we rarely step in line with each other (even when we agree). I don't think anyone here has 'faith' in the media or polling institutions.  

 

That said, I also tend to pay more heed to media sources that make their bread-and-butter on objectivity with a long track record to substantiate it.  I'm not a sucker for reading the New York Times, Washington Post, or the Wall Street Journal.  Nor am I fool for paying attention to the analysis previously-proven-sound institutions on a particular election, even if they were proven wrong in the short term.  Sure these institutions can prove faulty over the long-haul, and when they do, we're going to readily abandon them.   Heck, that's why I'm always interested in how such institutions collect date, and analyze it; I'm sure I'm not the only one, given this is a baseball forum.

 

If, on the other, you're asking us to show more empathy to other Americans, and people of the world, and pay less attention to the TV and corporate crap, well, I'm right there with you, brother. 

 

 

[biggentleben]

All of that said, one of the things that people seem to miss is that in polling, projection, and other such things, when they say something has even a 92% chance of happening, that means there are legit ways for that thing not to happen 8% of the time. When that 8% outcome happens, it does not mean the polling was wrong, it simply means that the 8% result happened. That's all. It's a fallacy of understanding things like polls that lead to different conclusions.

[Badsmerf]

Welcome to the discussion champ. I have a serious issue with what you're describing with the media. As far as I'm concerned, the only media outlet with a clear agenda is fox news. I don't think they lie, they just mislead. Others might have bias, but information presented is accurate.

 

Distrust in journalism and the news is really difficult to swallow. We depend on the media to keep us informed and keep politicians honest. By discrediting the media, the right wing has succeeded in forming the truth they want to a percentage of Americans.

 

There are really good journalists in our country. Polls and speculation are one thing, real journalism is another. They are not the same. A speculation being wrong does not mean an outlet is lying.

[Champuckett]

 

Well, where should we look for our news on issues that stretch beyond our own direct knowledge? Whether it's radio, some internet forum, or some passaround pamphlet.  It's all "media."   It's all secondhand information, prone to the bias of others, and often delivered in for-profit models.   If you ask us to look at the people around us, and what they have to say, well, I think we're all doing that (but I also hope we all realize how insular and limited-in-perspective our personal circles are, especially in late adulthood). 

 

And, it looks like you're new around here, so you'll just have to take my word for it, but the posters around here possess a healthy dose of cynicism, and we rarely step in line with each other (even when we agree). I don't think anyone here has 'faith' in the media or polling institutions.  

 

That said, I also tend to pay more heed to media sources that make their bread-and-butter on objectivity with a long track record to substantiate it.  I'm not a sucker for reading the New York Times, Washington Post, or the Wall Street Journal.  Nor am I fool for paying attention to the analysis previously-proven-sound institutions on a particular election, even if they were proven wrong in the short term.  Sure these institutions can prove faulty over the long-haul, and when they do, we're going to readily abandon them.   Heck, that's why I'm always interested in how such institutions collect date, and analyze it; I'm sure I'm not the only one, given this is a baseball forum.

 

If, on the other, you're asking us to show more empathy to other Americans, and people of the world, and pay less attention to the TV and corporate crap, well, I'm right there with you, brother. 

 

Thanks for the response sir.  I'm not new to these boards, but new to this sub-forum, although I did make another post about the media back in November right after the election, basically saying the same thing I said above. I warned people then, but it appears many are stuck on the same circle hoping to get somewhere new.  To answer your last comment, what I am saying, is to stop giving your(not you personally, in general) allegiance, or your attention to such a 3rd party group of people such as the media and refocus yourself back to your own humanity and common sense. Be vigilant and be investigative to your hearts content, but don't confuse tuning into fear porn all day on television or on the internet as being vigilant.  We will all have trouble finding truth in major media corporations on television or on the web that have their tentacles dug deeply into our government, both political parties, our minds, and in every single system that exists in the country, and greatly benefit from pushing certain agendas, for either political party, when either political party is in charge and in control of various institutions.

 

Most of the posts I am reading here seems to be repeated lines straight from the media and that could be an enormous over generalization, but from what I have read that's what it looks like.  I know everyone is cynical to a certain extent, but at some point every person has got to take a look at what they are saying and why they are saying it.  Maybe literally every single user in this thread is and does, super, but what I am seeing for the most part is talking points originating from one of the two major parties.  Trump sucks, no question about it, but not for the reasons the media constantly is giving us.  Anyone notice the media cheered Trump for the first and only time when he bombed Syria to kingdom come with 50+ missiles.  Why was that the one moment they liked him?  

 

If people want to jump on a side or a team because that's what makes them feel comfortable, by all means, have at it, but then it's going to be hard to convince someone who is in neither group that you aren't getting your news from a few select sources that have their own deeply ingrained agenda.  Even if individuals are doing this, it's not an easy thing to first, recognize, and secondly admit.  Anyways, that's what I am seeing, I could be wrong, and have quickly already been called out for being wrong by another poster.  Ok, I appreciate the feedback.

[Champuckett]

 

Welcome to the discussion champ. I have a serious issue with what you're describing with the media. As far as I'm concerned, the only media outlet with a clear agenda is fox news. I don't think they lie, they just mislead. Others might have bias, but information presented is accurate.

Distrust in journalism and the news is really difficult to swallow. We depend on the media to keep us informed and keep politicians honest. By discrediting the media, the right wing has succeeded in forming the truth they want to a percentage of Americans.

There are really good journalists in our country. Polls and speculation are one thing, real journalism is another. They are not the same. A speculation being wrong does not mean an outlet is lying.

 

Thanks for the response Badsmerf.  I think if you applied what Fox News does to right wing politics, how it seems to glorify it and be basically incapable of calling it out when there are abuses of power and double standards, and then applied that to every other source of mainstream news source and how they also give themselves passes, help out favored politicians and political parties, then we would be in full agreement.  For now, at least we are in agreement about Fox.  I will take it.

 

I think as we speak, what the "media" is to us, is being redefined.  We have gotten used to a half hour or hour of news at noon, at 5, at 6, news at 10, etc for more than half a century.  In just the last 10 years we have gone from that being the primary way Americans got their news to having a plethora of other options across the internet.  Suddenly you don't have to be a billion dollar corporation anymore to have a valid news source, you can operate a website, have a blog, have a youtube channel, have a vimeo channel, and you have the option of putting hundreds of millions of dollars into any of these or barely putting a dime and everything in between.  This has forced the major news corporations to compete with these other entities, and degradation of this institution has been in full effect for decades now, especially in the last 5-6 years because their product is poor.  Just like Blockbuster home video and it's conqueror Netflix, they are quickly becoming obsolete, and superior forms in the same industry are taking its place.

 

You are right, we do need the media to stand up and expose truth, which is why this is such an important topic.  They aren't doing their job right now, and haven't done it for some time.  They are attacking the current president for the wrong reasons, and only holding him to to the fire for problems that benefit certain political parties, rather than benefiting the exposure of real corruption and abuse of constitutionally given power and giving this information to the people.  I would argue the media not only misleads, but intentionally lies as well, regardless of political affiliation or bias, and has for many decades.  

 

They often are more concerned with getting their viewers to think a certain way, or have the "sexy" story at the top of the hour, rather than to expose the truth.  If the media can be so trustworthy, why did they all champion Bush's wars into the Middle East in 2002 and 2003?  They were content to play and replay Colin Powell again and again and we now know this was all a lie.  Every cable news station CNN and Fox News at the time, and network news, ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox covered this 24/7, as did the New York Times, they are all culpable.  Also the only time the media has universally praised Trump on anything was when he committed a war act in April on Syria with those missiles.  Are these really the institutions that we can rely on when they hate a man for everything he is, except when he sends missiles at a sovereign country?  Why did the media wait until 2002 to start covering the priest abuse happening in Catholic churches all across the world?  There were stories coming out in the mid-80's, yet they sat on these stories until the Boston Globe came forward with it.  Who knows how many more children were abused because of withholding this information or investigating these matters further.

 

I also agree with you that there are good journalists and journalism in this country.  You just won't find them on your television set or on their affiliated websites.  You can find websites on both sides of the political spectrum that are not a part of this tradition of media distortion that are doing their due diligence with far less resources.  What you will also get from this is far less fear mongering and distortion of the truth, and some level of actual investigation into the matters.  Right now the AP(Associated Press) is the primary source of news for every major news corporation in the country.  There is a reason regardless what source of news you watch, you are basically watching the same thing.  Investigative reporting at the corporate level is a dead industry in this country right now.  Efficiency, speediness, profits, and an agenda dictate what we see in the news now.  Business or agenda first, truth somewhere at the end of the list.  There may have been a time when they did a thorough job at filtering truth from fiction, that time has passed. They need efficiency to get their stories out there, get viewers tuning in, then onto the next story.  They use the internet and online resources to quickly copy/paste information from the AP and cut down on the work needed to do real investigations.  It's how they stay afloat with increasing competition and cut costs amid an influx of other media institutions coming into the fold.

 

I apologize for the lengthy response, but I wanted to do my best to address each of your points.  I am a bit long winded at times.  This would have been a nice bar chat with some beers, but the Twins Daily bar forum will have to suffice.  Anyways, to sum it up, yes journalism is absolutely critical to having a working democracy in this country, but equating that with the media systems we have right now is not something I can agree with.  We can agree to disagree I suppose.  We need a good media, we do, and we should demand that if these media institutions want us to keep tuning in, we demand more truth, and less sensationalized divisiveness.  Until then, we are only hurting ourselves by exposing our minds to their content, and continuing to give them reason to keep pumping out their mildly at most investigated stories.

 

My original comment in this thread was focused on people's reliance on the media and how it seems to dictate how we shape our everyday conversation about politics or the president.  If we want to move anywhere new and make a better world, have a stronger media that can properly attack Trump on the real issues, the first step will be to drop the biggest part of the equation, the corporate media, and go from there.  I think we would see better, more fruitful discussions in response to the news of the day at that point and not this pointing and screaming blame game.

[biggentleben]

Hmmm....you're paying attention to different "media" than I am if you think they were unified in praising Trump re: bombing Syria.

[Mike Sixel]

I have major issues with journalism in this century. It has, imo, moved well past being news, and much more into entertainment. The local news has always been more about entertainment, but the national news, imo, has really, really, really lost it's way.

[DaveW]

Reagan and his veto of the fairness doctrine is what set all of this nonsense in motion.

Go over to the UK and watch how they cover the news/politics etc

Makes us look like a bunch of freaking jackasses. It's EVERYONE's fault as well, as bad as Fox News is (and they are terrible) CNN, MSNBC and the like pull a ton of crap as well.

NPR, NYT, Washington Post are sadly three of the very few "respectable" media brands around any more.

[biggentleben]

 

Reagan and his veto of the fairness doctrine is what set all of this nonsense in motion.

Go over to the UK and watch how they cover the news/politics etc

Makes us look like a bunch of freaking jackasses. It's EVERYONE's fault as well, as bad as Fox News is (and they are terrible) CNN, MSNBC and the like pull a ton of crap as well.

NPR, NYT, Washington Post are sadly three of the very few "respectable" media brands around any more.

 

There is one thing that I will appreciate on the U.S. media over the UK's any day of the week, and that's the fact that an order from the government at any time can come down in the UK asking all media not to print a story for national security purposes, and that's that, no argument. In the United States, if a story could compromise national security or put a citizen at risk, the media source in question presents their reasoning for the article to the FBI/CIA/DOJ/whomever, and then a negotiation happens over how things get presented.

 

That is one of the scary parts of non-affiliated media. They don't have to play by those same rules and often don't until they're shut down and then attempt to claim "freedom of press", when any other media source is working with the government to present a story while also keeping citizens safe, and many of those stories have painted the government (including the agency in question) in a terrible light, so it's not as if the government has any semblance of censorship regarding only positive press on itself getting out - or at least it has not until the previous administration, with whom all bets are off.

[Willihammer]

People get way to wrapped up in the news IMO. Especially the cable networks which are their own kind of circus. It has very little to do with staying informed and more to do with picking sides and reinforcing our own biases I think.

[nicksaviking]

The news isn't the same, and it hasn't changed for the better. It sadly has impacted people who can't or don't want to make their own conclusions, but largely there are still enough tell tale signs of conjecture, opinion and hyperbole that discerning readers/viewers can distinguish which parts are less than honest or relevant.

 

People on this site don't appear to be too often fooled by the BS and you folks are the one's who still watch the traditional yet now subpar news.

 

I don't know that CNN horseplay fools too many, because the people who tend to get fooled seem to be the ones who get all of their news from Facebook or Instagram. Or Fox News. It's people who don't have the inclination to invest much effort into knowing what's going on in the world. People who actually want to know, not just act like they know, are still raising the red flags. Take this thread for example.

[Craig Arko]

 

The news isn't the same, and it hasn't changed for the better. It sadly has impacted people who can't or don't want to make their own conclusions, but largely there are still enough tell tale signs of conjecture, opinion and hyperbole that discerning readers/viewers can distinguish which parts are less than honest or relevant.

 

People on this site don't appear to be too often fooled by the BS and you folks are the one's who still watch the traditional yet now subpar news.

 

I don't know that CNN horseplay fools too many, because the people who tend to get fooled seem to be the ones who get all of their news from Facebook or Instagram. Or Fox News. It's people who don't have the inclination to invest much effort into knowing what's going on in the world. People who actually want to know, not just act like they know, are still raising the red flags. Take this thread for example.

I highly recommend NPR and the BBC.

[biggentleben]

Heck, if people even read the news article rather than just the headline, it'd make a world of difference in the general public's understanding. Great reporting is often lost to a poor headline.

[Bark's Lounge]

IMO - Real News, Fake News, Good News, Bad News, etc. doesn't really matter anymore if a great amount of the people in this country don't change their ways.

 

With the fast paced surge of technology in the last 30 years, especially the last 20 years, from my view point a great % of people have lost their empathy for each other. Passion mainly exists as a self gratifying tool to serve one's own purposes. We have been cattle branded with convenience and we wear it well.

 

So many people are sheltered from the real world and don't have a need to use critical thought or feel compassion for others because they don't need to. Face to face, personal constructs are not what they used to be and that is what is instrumental to imagining yourself walking in another person's shoes and having a change of thought.

 

I hope that didn't sound to stupid.

 

For what it's worth, I like real news, minus the out of this world sensationalism.

[Craig Arko]

IMO - Real News, Fake News, Good News, Bad News, etc. doesn't really matter anymore if a great amount of the people in this country don't change their ways.

 

With the fast paced surge of technology in the last 30 years, especially the last 20 years, from my view point a great % of people have lost their empathy for each other. Passion mainly exists as a self gratifying tool to serve one's own purposes. We have been cattle branded with convenience and we wear it well.

 

So many people are sheltered from the real world and don't have a need to use critical thought or feel compassion for others because they don't need to. Face to face, personal constructs are not what they used to be and that is what is instrumental to imagining yourself walking in another person's shoes and having a change of thought.

 

I hope that didn't sound to stupid.

 

For what it's worth, I like real news, minus the out of this world sensationalism.

Out of this world real news. Launch of this is scheduled for October of 2018. I'm thinking of going.

 

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Out of this world real news. Launch of this is scheduled for October of 2018. I'm thinking of going.

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov

Are you asking me out on a date Craig?

[Craig Arko]

Are you asking me out on a date Craig?

You buy the drinks...

[Mike Sixel]

Emapthy does seem to be the missing ingredient among many in this country. 

[drjim]

In addition to empathy, a general sense of fairness and benefit of the doubt regarding motives for those you disagree with. Political rhetoric is constantly at an 11.

[Champuckett]

 

Reagan and his veto of the fairness doctrine is what set all of this nonsense in motion.

Go over to the UK and watch how they cover the news/politics etc

Makes us look like a bunch of freaking jackasses. It's EVERYONE's fault as well, as bad as Fox News is (and they are terrible) CNN, MSNBC and the like pull a ton of crap as well.

NPR, NYT, Washington Post are sadly three of the very few "respectable" media brands around any more.

 

In general, if a media company existed before the internet age began in the mid 90's, you can be pretty certain it has been entirely corrupted.  NYT and Wash Post included.  Maybe there is an exception out there to this, but I have yet to find one.  Lobbyists and their respective corporations have had decades worth of time to take advantage and manipulate each of these companies to the extent that they now peddle their wares on a daily basis.  

 

The only thing NPR has going for it is it is non-profit based entity, so there is less pressure to "deliver" for 3rd parties and for profits.  You can view this as a good or a bad thing, it depends on a lot of factors.  Still, they do have incentive because they need public funds from the federal government every year to stay afloat, to remain relevant and necessary, so they aren't clean either.  The government regardless of who is running it, will never incriminate itself, so the idea that a mostly publicly run and government funded news group would rat itself out is absurd to say the least.  It's the same concept you see when corrupt politicians in Washington DC are being investigated by a committee and rarely are found guilty of anything.  The government or its politicians rarely determines itself to be guilty and it's how things generally always seem to stay the same, and those that are guilty always seem to get off.

[Champuckett]

 

Hmmm....you're paying attention to different "media" than I am if you think they were unified in praising Trump re: bombing Syria.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqBwrj6Oiw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwnSAmIlZPk

 

[Champuckett]

 

I highly recommend NPR and the BBC.

 

I wouldn't recommend either.  The BBC resorts to less childishness than American news with their reporting, but they are still over sensationalized and pumping a narrative that will shine more light on some facts, while ignoring others.  I would agree that it's going to be an overall more rewarding experience (but probably less entertaining) than anything you will find within the US media.

 

I'm not saying that this is what you were trying to say, but making a general statement.. In order to get to the bottom of a story and to find truth, it takes a lot more than just relying on a few news sources.  You have to be incredibly vigilant and observe at least 5-10 sources at a minimum, speaking on the same topic, to get some hint at what is really going on.  It may not be clear after that still what is going on, but that's ok.  It's ok to not know, but we tend to be very afraid of this notion, so we let 3rd party news organizations fill in these gaps in reckless fashion.  The truth is often times suppressed intentionally so that agendas can be carried out in the meantime, from both major political parties, and jumping on board with either makes the reader no better than the perpetrator pumping out their agenda.  Relying on only a few sources is a dangerous road to cheerleading a specific narrative.  Some people take comfort in doing this, because being on a team can be rewarding, especially when your team wins.

[Craig Arko]

Thank you again for your advice.

[drjim]

I personally think The Atlantic is the best thing going. But I'm also much more anti-Trump than I am specifically anti-Republican, so it fits me well.

[Badsmerf]

I personally think The Atlantic is the best thing going. But I'm also much more anti-Trump than I am specifically anti-Republican, so it fits me well.

I would be less anti Republican if they actually stood up to Trump. Also, the agendas currently being pushed are far from what I consider conservative, and closer to crazy. In Iowa we have had some nasty legislation passed this year. I will not vote for the Republican party again until I see candidates willing to stand against radical right wing agendas. Right now, only Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski have any balls.