POTUS Donald Trump

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Other than years of history indicating that is true, not to mention current spending in places like Mississippi and Alabama?

 

So because it happened in the early 1900s is proof that it will just happen again?  That, I think, is a very unreasonable assumption and conclusion. Society has changed greatly since that time.   

 

Likewise, there's plenty of far more efficient and cost effective ways to prevent your fears that do not involve the creation of a massive federal bureaucracy.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

So because it happened in the early 1900s is proof that it will just happen again?  That, I think, is a very unreasonable assumption and conclusion. Society has changed greatly since that time.   

 

Likewise, there's plenty of far more efficient and cost effective ways to prevent your fears that do not involve the creation of a massive federal bureaucracy.

 

Are you sure the education department is that bad? Do you have any actual evidence of that? As for "all govt agencies are bad"....A: bull, I worked in government for 7 years . B: I'm not sure big companies are any better, maybe worse, based on my experiences.

 

Early 1900s? Seriously? There are schools not being funded well right now, just look at graduation and test scores in the states that spend less on education, vs those that spend more. The causation is there. today.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Well, defense and healthcare are most of the budget, and we know the GOP isn't cutting defense.....at the state level it is education, roads, and healthcare...as long as we spend so much more of our taxes on defense and healthcare than any other nation, we either have crappy education and roads, or we have to raise taxes. Pretty simple, really.

 

yeah, I disagree with the GOP there.  Defense should not be exempt.  There's plenty of waste there, and I've seen that first hand.  Honestly, you could mandate 20% cuts across the entire federal space and likely not affect their deliverables (and probably still have room to cut).  It's horribly bloated.

 

There's plenty of places to reduce costs in healthcare without affecting the quality of service.

 

It really isn't that simple. You're assuming that everything is reasonably efficient. It's not.

[Mike Sixel]

 

yeah, I disagree with the GOP there.  Defense should not be exempt.  There's plenty of waste there, and I've seen that first hand.  Honestly, you could mandate 20% cuts across the entire federal space and likely not affect their deliverables (and probably still have room to cut).  It's horribly bloated.

 

There's plenty of places to reduce costs in healthcare without affecting the quality of service.

 

It really isn't that simple. You're assuming that everything is reasonably efficient. It's not.

 

It isn't that simple that you can cut 20% and not have issues. And you accuse me of over simplifying?

 

And no, I'm not assuming everything is efficient, I'm asking you to prove it isn't before you cut, and also pointing out that business isn't much better....

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Are you sure the education department is that bad? Do you have any actual evidence of that? As for "all govt agencies are bad"....A: bull, I worked in government for 7 years . B: I'm not sure big companies are any better, maybe worse, based on my experiences.

 

Early 1900s? Seriously? There are schools not being funded well right now, just look at graduation and test scores in the states that spend less on education, vs those that spend more. The causation is there. today.

When the Dept of Ed was formed, our kids were first world wide across the board.  Where are they now?

 

BTW, I live in the least funded district in the state of Indiana.  I don't know every state, but our test scores and grad rates are one of the best in the state. It's not all about the funding. Simply throwing money at it will not fix it. That's my issue with any kind of government spending. Money gets thrown at a problem with no accountability and no thought for what the root cause is and whether or not money can actually fix it.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It isn't that simple that you can cut 20% and not have issues. And you accuse me of over simplifying?

 

And no, I'm not assuming everything is efficient, I'm asking you to prove it isn't before you cut, and also pointing out that business isn't much better....

 

yeah, you could cut more.  The furloughs already showed us it was possible. 

 

We have a running joke in the federal circles about people whose sole existence is to collect a pay check. That's a reality for government jobs at federal, state, and local levels.  There's a number of reasons for it, and yeah, it's not simple by any means, but that means people may have to be held accountable for non-performance, or that we might have to actually modernize the government and reduce the headcounts accordingly.  That doesn't happen presently.

 

I've personally witnessed projects being rolled back because they were too effective and it would have meant that people would be laid off.  My first government job, it took them a month just to get me a laptop and user account.  A month.  This has been true, I might add, in just about every Federal org I've walked into. We aren't talking saving an hour or too here and there. We are asking a 1000 pound human being to get their weight down. 

 

The problem is that neither party has the guts to do it. It's not a Republican or Democrat specific problem. They both ultimately grow the government.  The only difference is what they choose to grow.

[Mike Sixel]

Uh, same thing exists in big companies, trust me.....in terms of programs being cut if they threaten power.

 

And yes, neither party has guts to do it, agreed.

 

And yes, "just" throwing money at a problem isn't enough, agreed. 

[Badsmerf]

I think everyone would agree there are areas of improvement and efficiency needed. That doesn't mean you just rip it up. There has to be oversight, standardization, consistency, and direction. Yes it can be done better. Much better even. Our education system is bad right Now.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not convinced our education system is bad in every state.....

[nicksaviking]

 

So because it happened in the early 1900s is proof that it will just happen again?  That, I think, is a very unreasonable assumption and conclusion. Society has changed greatly since that time.   

 

Likewise, there's plenty of far more efficient and cost effective ways to prevent your fears that do not involve the creation of a massive federal bureaucracy.

 

Reverting everything to how it used to be was pretty much Trump's campaign slogan was it not?

 

I have a hard time believing that low income and minority schools in areas without liberal majority legislators wouldn't see most of their funds re-allocated to the wealthy schools.

[Craig Arko]

 

I'm not convinced our education system is bad in every state.....

This just keeps on getting better, Theocrats ++

 

http://www.chronicle.com/article/Jerry-Falwell-Jr-Says-He-Will/239062/

[nicksaviking]

 

When the Dept of Ed was formed, our kids were first world wide across the board.  Where are they now?

 

 

That's because the rest of the world passed us, we didn't de-educate ourselves. And these places that passed us typically embrace many aspects of socialism much, much more.

 

My son is in Kindergarten and part of their course work is reading, like actually reading books. We weren't reading books when I was in Kindergarten, we didn't even really have course work. We're not regressing so much as we have slowed our advancement.

[nicksaviking]

Every department is hurting right now and because they're hurting everyone assumes it's due to incompetence or negligence but honestly, it's almost all caused by the fact that the defense/military budget is mind-boggling and indefensibly high. If this got cut and we stopped wasting money on all types of war-creation mechanisms, there would be a lot more money to go around for other departments, and a lot less taxes also.

 

I'd much rather the US be first in education, healthcare, etc and say fifth in military spending, though with how much money we blow in that department, even dropping to second would probably bring much needed relief.

[D. Hocking]

There has been some interesting discussion on this thread.  A lot of these issues I need to give more thought and time.  

 

Excerpt from Trump's Black History Month speech - sadly this is not from the Onion:

 

“You read all about Dr. Martin Luther King a week ago when somebody said I took the statue out of my office. And it turned out that that was fake news,” Trump said.

 

“The statue is cherished. It’s one of the favourite things — and we have some good ones. We have Lincoln, and we have Jefferson, and we have Dr. Martin Luther King. And we have other (sic). But they said the statue, the bust, of Dr. Martin Luther King was taken out of the office. And it was never even touched. So I think it was a disgrace, but that’s the way the press is. It’s very unfortunate.”

 

About Frederick Douglass, the 19th-century slavery abolitionist, writer and speaker, Trump said: “Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job that is being recognized more and more, I notice.”

[biggentleben]

I will say that as someone who has worked with both developmentally disabled and mentally ill and also has at-need children in my home, without forcing states to fund support for those persons, they would never receive funding. Not from churches, not from anyone.

 

Spectrum disorders are a great example. Children on the spectrum require a different level of teaching than "normal" children. As adults, the system flat out abandons them, as someone with "only" a spectrum disorder is not able to be funded for services through disability services, which is what they truly need. Instead, most often, there is a fake mental health diagnosis given in order to get them some sort of treatment, but the second that they receive mental health services, they are no longer eligible to receive developmental disability services in conjunction as an adult.

 

Nevermind the abhorrent way mental health is funded in the country. That's a discussion for a whole other day, but it's only briefly discussed whenever certain groups want to avoid discussing their guns, so nothing ever seems to get done. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

That's because the rest of the world passed us, we didn't de-educate ourselves. And these places that passed us typically embrace many aspects of socialism much, much more.

 

My son is in Kindergarten and part of their course work is reading, like actually reading books. We weren't reading books when I was in Kindergarten, we didn't even really have course work. We're not regressing so much as we have slowed our advancement.

 

This.  Do you know how many parents I have (for second graders!) that tell me they "can't" help their kid with their math homework?  That the mere fact i have slightly changed how I teach it or the terminology has somehow crippled their ability to add or subtract?  Our kids are graduating high school tackling subjects their parents never saw and we're doing work earlier and earlier.

 

I don't find world-wide comparisons all that valid.  So some homogeneous culture in Asia or northern Europe has us beat by some test metric?  So what?  That's not what's important.  Or it shouldn't be.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not convinced our education system is bad in every state.....

 

Minnesota is actually in the lower tier of education funding in the nation and almost always in the upper tier in results.  There are a variety of factors,but I would agree funding is not strictly the avenue.

 

But it is THE most important factor in some districts.  Our poor and isolated kids do get the shaft by the way we fund things and that would go a long way to pulling up the bottom.  

 

So I agree, places like Minnesota, Oregon, Iowa, Mass, and others have it figured out.  Others?  Well, let's just say where I teach this year, i use a reading text book from 1967 and one of the stories is literally titled "Negroes in America"

 

Wrap your head around that and tell me we don't need some sort of federal oversight.

[Mike Sixel]

Not so sure about my new home state......grad rates are less than ideal, from what I read, though I admit I pay less attention now that my sons are in college.

[Badsmerf]

Spicer just pretty much confirmed trump plans to sell off public land and destroy any area with untapped natural resources. I have a feeling many outdoors people will start flipping out if it happens.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Spicer just pretty much confirmed trump plans to sell off public land and destroy any area with untapped natural resources. I have a feeling many outdoors people will start flipping out if it happens.

 

Heh, and I was paranoid....damnit. I hate being right on this one.

[Mike Sixel]

So far, two GOP Senators have said they will not vote for Devos......hope springs eternal!

[D. Hocking]

I think Devos is the one who might not make it.  The recent charges of plagiarism on her application have probably not helped her.

 

I still cannot believe he made Black History month about how the media is mean to him...

[jimmer]

I think Devos is the one who might not make it. The recent charges of plagiarism on her application have probably not helped her.

 

I still cannot believe he made Black History month about how the media is mean to him...

to him, everything is about him. Thats how narcissitic preteens roll.

[D. Hocking]

 

to him, everything is about him. Thats how narcissitic preteens preschoolers roll.

 

Preteens sometimes have some impulse control and have better grammar.

[jimmer]

The Extreme Narcissist:

 

People with narcissistic personality disorder have an inflated sense of their own importance. a strong sense of entitlement, a deep need for admiratioon (yet a lack of empathy for others). They use verbal abuse for power and control.

[jimmer]

Preteens sometimes have some impulse control and have better grammar.

my kids, when they were preschoolers, didnt tweet :-)

[kydoty]

 

About Frederick Douglass, the 19th-century slavery abolitionist, writer and speaker, Trump said: “Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job that is being recognized more and more, I notice.”

 

I'm fairly convinced that Trump didn't even know who Fredrick Douglass was until this morning and that he thinks he is still alive.

[Craig Arko]

 

I'm fairly convinced that Trump didn't even know who Fredrick Douglass was until this morning and that he thinks he is still alive.

So, he still doesn't know who Frederick Douglass was. Certainly not what he stood for.

[D. Hocking]

 

So, he still doesn't know who Frederick Douglass was. Certainly not what he stood for.

 

He is too busy embracing what Andrew Jackson stood for.

[Craig Arko]

 

He is too busy embracing what Andrew Jackson stood for.

I still find Caligula to be a good equivalent.