POTUS Donald Trump

[PseudoSABR]

 

 

Of course there were results.  But there were not results on impeachment or collusion.  

 

it's strange to me that some here are on one hand arguing that collusion and impeachment was never the goal and then simultaneously citing Adam Schiff saying he'll still pursue the collusion angle even after the report.  

 

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.  The special counsel was convened to look into Russian interference and potential ties to Donald Trump's campaign.  It then expanded to include obstruction after the Comey firing.  It resulted in many charges against members of Trump's campaign for a variety of illegal acts but, so far as we know, did not conclude there was collusion.  It punted on obstruction but gave evidence both ways.  The left wanted this to be Trump's undoing, which only was going to happen if he was found to have colluded or obstructed.  The right wanted this to be a witch hunt about collusion.  Now every schmo in those camps has stayed in their camp with their fingers in their ears yelling the same things they did before the report concluded.

 

If you're in those camps - get serious.  You're being silly.  This report did have real results and Trump was associated with some real shady folks and was probably shady himself.  It also did not conclude that there was conclusion.  Accept it.  Move on.

How'd you get the report?

[TheLeviathan]

 

How'd you get the report?

 

One could ask you the same question.  You just have one hell of a lot less basis for your stance.

 

If Mueller had concluded that Trump colluded....we'd be in a full blown state of Constitutional crisis.  We're not.  There is only one rational conclusion to draw.

[PseudoSABR]

 

One could ask you the same question.  You just have one hell of a lot less basis for your stance.

 

If Mueller had concluded that Trump colluded....we'd be in a full blown state of Constitutional crisis.  We're not.  There is only one rational conclusion to draw.

My stance is I don't know.  For many it will matter whether there wasn't sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt or whether there really was no evidence.   You're telling people to move on on the basis of 4 page summary from a non-neutral party.

 

And I don't need to read the report to argue that conspiracy is more difficult to prove than obstruction.

[TheLeviathan]

 

My stance is I don't know. 

 

If you say so.  That sure isn't what you've said here or the like button you've used.

 

I'm telling people to move on because a qualified, decorated member of our government spent two years investigating.  Barr may have plenty of motivation to handle this like a tool, but he quoted directly from Mueller that the evidence he gathered did not indicate any crime was committed.  

 

Unless you think he deliberately misquoted Mueller, the conclusion we have is from Mueller, not Barr.  On obstruction....we can wait and see, but I don't see that getting very far.  And since I don't think Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time, I'd rather they give up on dead ends and focus on meaningful things they can do.  Like shut Russia down.  And beat Trump in a year and a half.  This is a dead end.  And you only look more foolish every day you don't accept that.  Or I guess this can be the left's Benghazi or some other similar claptrap.

 

Either way, stop the charade.  You know full well this was always about getting Trump out.  This whole line of argument from you the last two pages is disingenuous or silly.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

If you say so.  That sure isn't what you've said here or the like button you've used.

 

I'm telling people to move on because a qualified, decorated member of our government spent two years investigating.  Barr may have plenty of motivation to handle this like a tool, but he quoted directly from Mueller that the evidence he gathered did not indicate any crime was committed.  

 

Unless you think he deliberately misquoted Mueller, the conclusion we have is from Mueller, not Barr.  On obstruction....we can wait and see, but I don't see that getting very far.  And since I don't think Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time, I'd rather they give up on dead ends and focus on meaningful things they can do.  Like shut Russia down.  And beat Trump in a year and a half.  This is a dead end.  And you only look more foolish every day you don't accept that.  It'll be your Benghazi.  That would be foolish.

I think he cribbed the quote as I said up thread.  It's 300 pages, lets see whats there, and whether it warrants impeachment/further House investigation.  Basically, I am at where Adam Schiff is at, see his 4min speech up thread.    

 

If a four page summary is enough for you, that's fine, but don't tell other people what they should and should not be satisfied with. 

[ewen21]

 

My stance is I don't know.  For many it will matter whether there wasn't sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt or whether there really was no evidence.   You're telling people to move on on the basis of 4 page summary from a non-neutral party.

 

And I don't need to read the report to argue that conspiracy is more difficult to prove than obstruction.

You're stance seems to be you don't know, but your hope is they can convict him of something/anything

 

Maybe he'll fall down a flight of stairs and break his neck?  

I'd say the chance of him being impeached for anything in the Mueller report is less than that.

 

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

You're stance seems to be you don't know, but your hope is they can convict him of something/anything

 

Maybe he'll fall down a flight of stairs and break his neck?  

I'd say the chance of him being impeached for anything in the Mueller report is less than that.

Convict, no. Impeach, yes.  I want him out of office, or at the very least his wrong known publicly.  I think impeachment is unlikely, but I think we'll discover serious wrong doing when the Mueller report is released.

[ashbury]

Convict, no. Impeach, yes.  I want the orange clown out of office, or at the very least his wrong known publicly.  I think impeachment is unlikely, but I think we'll discover serious wrong doing when the Mueller report is released.

Moderator note: Just a reminder, to all and not merely in response to this one post - personal swipes are not allowed at the site.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

This thread needs more voices and points of view, not less!

[Squirrel]

This thread needs more voices and points of view, not less!

Agreed. But spammers are spammers, and they be gone.

[PseudoSABR]

 

 they be gone.

Intentional southside reference to Hawk Harrellson?

[Squirrel]

Intentional southside reference to Hawk Harrellson?

Heh, no. Must’ve been a subconscious reference.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Agreed. But spammers are spammers, and they be gone.

If that’s how Trump supporters wish to state their case, then it’s important that that be known. Maybe a swipe like that is just an entry into the conversation and will lead to something more substantive. And I am not offended being called a Liberl Cuck, though of course there are people who will be offended for me.

 

 

*done editing this post ( x 2 )

[Mike Sixel]

 

If that’s how Trump supporters wish to state their case, then it’s important that that be known. Maybe a swipe like that is just an entry into the conversation and will lead to something more substantive. And I am not offended being called a Liberl Cuck, though of course there are people who will be offended for me.


*done editing this post ( x 2 )

 

I was bemused, not offended. I agree, more variety of voices would be great. I also think maybe not voices that aren't maybe interested in actually having a conversation....

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I was bemused, not offended. I agree, more variety of voices would be great. I also think maybe not voices that aren't maybe interested in actually having a conversation....

True

[PseudoSABR]

 

I was bemused, not offended. I agree, more variety of voices would be great. I also think maybe not voices that aren't maybe interested in actually having a conversation....

Right. When someone's foray into a conversation is to shame everyone; I question whether they seek to have a genuine conversation. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

On topic: I don’t think Democrats are truly interested in seeing the full report. Then they would have to do something about it. But do what? Hold Impeachment hearings to remove a president, right before an election that could remove the president just as effectively?

 

Not to say individual citizens wouldn’t be interested in seeing it. I would, myself, for curiosity’s sake. But Dem politicians? I doubt it. I could be wrong.

 

To me, Dems barking about release of the full report just looks like dog chases car, dog catches car. Or, bench coach holds back manager yelling in umpires face, because if the bench coach wasn’t out there to hold back the manager, the manager would be... yelling in the umpires face?

[PseudoSABR]

 

On topic: I don’t think Democrats are truly interested in seeing the full report. Then they would have to do something about it. But do what? Hold Impeachment hearings to remove a president, right before an election that could remove the president just as effectively?

Not to say individual citizens wouldn’t be interested in seeing it. I would, myself, for curiosity’s sake. But Dem politicians? I doubt it. I could be wrong.

To me, Dems barking about release of the full report just looks like dog chases car, dog catches car. Or, bench coach holds back manager yelling in umpires face, because if the bench coach wasn’t out there to hold back the manager, the manager would be... yelling in the umpires face?

I think if the report is released, the Democrats won't hold impeachment hearings so close to another election.  They'll trumpet "let the people decide" which would be a good move politically, imo.  (Although, I'd rather have our president, impeached as I think his deeds fall squarely within the purpose of that constitutional, congressional power.)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think if the report is released, the Democrats won't hold impeachment hearings so close to another election.  They'll trumpet "let the people decide" which would be a good move politically, imo.  (Although, I'd rather have our president, impeached as I think his deeds fall squarely within the purpose of that constitutional, congressional power.)

That would be the better way to go. I mean, the guy has never played by the rules. That’s part of why he was elected. If the Mueller report says “didn’t campaign by the rules” I mean, how politically explosive is that supposed to be to the electorate? The Russian collusion stuff is just so far removed from normal peoples lives. I think only insiders and junkies really care what happens with this whole thing. It’s definitely worth debating about here, not trying to imply otherwise or throw cold water on it. As always, just my opinion.

[Mike Sixel]

 

That would be the better way to go. I mean, the guy has never played by the rules. That’s part of why he was elected. If the Mueller report says “didn’t campaign by the rules” I mean, how politically explosive is that supposed to be to the electorate? The Russian collusion stuff is just so far removed from normal peoples lives. I think only insiders and junkies really care what happens with this whole thing. It’s definitely worth debating about here, not trying to imply otherwise or throw cold water on it. As always, just my opinion.

 

I think "normal" people just want better jobs, and no war, and better roads......maybe healthcare if they don't have a job that supplies it cheaply. IMO, outside the people that really CARE about politics, I doubt any report that shows no proof of collusion helps anyone much.

[PseudoSABR]

I think people do care about corruption, though. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think people do care about corruption, though. 

 

Sure, but how many, and how are they already going to vote? So, sure, it matters to "right and wrong", but does it matter to the next set of elections? We already see politicians get re-elected (or elected again) after serving time for corruption (or at least being ousted). 

 

It's all about tribes right now, not right and wrong. I don't know how to fix that.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sure, but how many, and how are they already going to vote? So, sure, it matters to "right and wrong", but does it matter to the next set of elections? We already see politicians get re-elected (or elected again) after serving time for corruption (or at least being ousted). 

 

It's all about tribes right now, not right and wrong. I don't know how to fix that.

 

I think you said it best, if it's not a crime that will result in legal proceedings....people don't care.  Even then they may not care!  Corrupt politicians stay in office all the time.  Pedophiles nearly get elected in this day and age.  

 

If this report is anything short of explosive, damning evidence of a crime (and by Mueller's quote...it's hard to believe that's the case)....Hosken's analogy is perfectly on point.  It's a dog chasing a car.  It's a fruitless, waste of time to keep banging the corruption/collusion drum.

 

Use it to pound Russian interference or the other practical matters we need for our country?  Hell yeah!  Running after Trump?  Totally misguided.  That's more about emotion and personal contempt for Trump than good sense.

[D. Hocking]

Collusion aside --- these are things the President of the United States has said in the last few days (paraphrasing):

 

Windmills -- what happens if there is no wind - and then I can't watch TV... (notice how not watching TV is what he considers a horror).  Because he absolutely has to be the best at everything - he has to claim "I know a lot about wind!"

 

Going on and on about a representative in Congress having a skinny neck like he is some third grade bully (and not to be petty, but should Trump be giving anyone a bad time about their physical condition?).     On a very presidential note, you can now buy a t-shirt with a picture of Adam Schiff literally having a pencil neck on the official Donald Trump merchandise webpage.  

 

Some rant about how much money we will save if he closes the border highlighting how he still really has not bothered to figure out how trade works and why he has gone bankrupt more than once.

 

Pretending he is an expert on the Great Lakes he claims record deepness - very deep.    Lake Superior itself has to actually dispute that on twitter.     Not to mention his praising of the Great Lakes is a bit hypocritical since his proposed budget wanted to do big time slashing in that area.

 

Pretending he is a great savior to the Special Olympics when he got enough negative reaction that he had to pretend he was not fine with the money being slashed in the first place.

 

Having the nerve to say he has done more than "any living person" for Puerto Rico.

 

Even if he has committed no crime, this man is not fit for office - he is lazy, he lies, he has no moral center, is petty and vindictive, and he is proudly ignorant and feels that his gut feeling on things is how he should make his decisions -- not on any of the experts or amount of data he could review (unless he hears it on Fox&Friends or Hannity).   

 

He really, really, needs to get voted out in 2020.

 

 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

Yup.  Let's focus on that. 

[Craig Arko]

Hmm, Presidents have thrown the ceremonial first pitch at a baseball game for over 100 years. Guess who breaks the streak? Bone spurs in the pitching arm, no doubt.

 

https://www.complex.com/life/2019/03/donald-trump-not-thrown-first-pitch-mlb-game

[ewen21]

 

Hmm, Presidents have thrown the ceremonial first pitch at a baseball game for over 100 years. Guess who breaks the streak? Bone spurs in the pitching arm, no doubt.

https://www.complex.com/life/2019/03/donald-trump-not-thrown-first-pitch-mlb-game

Would have been pretty sweet seeing him step on a mound someplace with a MAGA hat

[PseudoSABR]

 

Would have been pretty sweet seeing him step on a mound someplace with a MAGA hat

You said you didn't vote for Trump, but you support him? What changed?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I blame Mexican countries.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I blame Mexican countries.

Well done with the plural.