POTUS Donald Trump

[D. Hocking]

Trump, per pool, on enemies he didn’t name: “They've done so many evil things. I will tell you I love this country, I love this country as much as I can love anything: my family, my country, my God. But what they did — it was a false narrative, it was a terrible thing.”

 

 

Things are going to get ugly(ier).  Trump is going to feel pretty unrestrained and not feel limited in what he can do or say about people he feels are not loyal to him and the GOP leadership is going to stay out of his way.

 

I do think the above quote should probably be amended to read:

 

I love this country as much as I can love anything: my family, my country, my God, almost as much as I love myself.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Barr's letter can't be considered an executive summary. It's more or less, like, his opinion, man. Hard to draw any conclusions until the full report is released.

 

Yes....but he's probably in the ballpark.  He quoted Mueller a few times as well, so I doubt he's way off here.  Maybe, but I doubt it.  

 

Look, people who want this to be Trump's end are not going to let go of that.  They'll find what they can find and hang on to that for dear life.  Those that want this to be Trump's full exoneration will do the same.  

 

I think it's fairly safe to conclude that Mueller did not find any smoking guns nor the kind of evidence many expected him to uncover.  He found plenty of malfeasance, but jailing Paul Manafort was never the end.  I'm curious to read about the evidence Mueller presents for obstruction, because on that charge Barr seems to indicate the issue is not yet resolved.  I just doubt that will go very far if the report concludes that there is insufficient basis to suspect collusion.  

 

It's disappointing.  It's ok for that to be the case.  I'm bothered that some people are trying to put a hell of a lot of lipstick on this or shift the goal posts to somehow pull victory from the jaws of disappointment.  Cut out the gymnastics.  Move on from the results and kick his ass at the next election.

[Vanimal46]

Yes....but he's probably in the ballpark. He quoted Mueller a few times as well, so I doubt he's way off here. Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

Look, people who want this to be Trump's end are not going to let go of that. They'll find what they can find and hang on to that for dear life. Those that want this to be Trump's full exoneration will do the same.

 

I think it's fairly safe to conclude that Mueller did not find any smoking guns nor the kind of evidence many expected him to uncover. He found plenty of malfeasance, but jailing Paul Manafort was never the end. I'm curious to read about the evidence Mueller presents for obstruction, because on that charge Barr seems to indicate the issue is not yet resolved. I just doubt that will go very far if the report concludes that there is insufficient basis to suspect collusion.

 

It's disappointing. It's ok for that to be the case. I'm bothered that some people are trying to put a hell of a lot of lipstick on this or shift the goal posts to somehow pull victory from the jaws of disappointment. Cut out the gymnastics. Move on from the results and kick his ass at the next election.

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on... I have several friends who refuse to back down until they personally see the full report. They desperately want this to be the ticket to impeach Trump. I don't think they'll get their wish.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on... I have several friends who refuse to back down until they personally see the full report. They desperately want this to be the ticket to impeach Trump. I don't think they'll get their wish.

 

There are hints of that even in our discussion here.  It's a dead end - either they covered their tracks well or there was nothing there to find.  Either way, this is over.  It's, at minimum, a mild victory for Trump.

 

Let's avoid impugning Mueller's credibility or getting stuck on a lost cause.  There are plenty of other ways to knock this schmo out of office.

[ewen21]

 

There are plenty of other ways to knock this schmo out of office.

When are you submitting your report?

[ewen21]

Left leaning media outlets really are starting to embarass themselves.  They are getting into the same area Rush Limbaugh got into during the Clinton Administration.  The democrats now have the most extreme voices being heard above all.  They need to step outside of themselves and take a good look right now

 

This BS about the Mueller report being a "small victory for Trump" totally misses the mark..  IF anything it is an embarassment for America.  So much twiddle about nothing.

[Badsmerf]

IF anything it is an embarassment for America. So much twiddle about nothing.

Russians interfered in our election... and the Trump campaign was suspected of helping. People went to jail. This wasn't so much twiddle about nothing. In the end, there wasn't enough evidence to bring a case of conspiracy... which is tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Doomtints]

They said:

 

"Robert Mueller is a PROFESSIONAL EXPERT who will leave NO STONE UNTURNED!"

 

Mueller's report said:

 

"Eh, there maybe have been obstruction of justice. Who can tell?"

[TheLeviathan]

 

When are you submitting your report?

 

November 2020.  I hope lots of other people do too.

[PseudoSABR]

I'll continue to hold out that there might be evidence of collusion until Mueller's actual report says otherwise, whether it was enough to convict/indict of course is an open question.  But I will accept the results of the Mueller's and hopefully the House's investigations.  

[D. Hocking]

 

November 2020.  I hope lots of other people do too.

 

Yes - I think that has always been the way to get Trump out of office.  Even if the report would have said collusion, I don't the the GOP in the Senate would do anything and would not convict even if the House impeached him.  I had already heard a number of people starting to argue collusion would be no big deal.

 

I do think they need to continue to try and get the full report and not abandon the other investigations, but they need to chew gum and walk a the same time and have a large focus on the election and focusing on other issues than just being anti-Trump.

 

I am not sure what the make-up of the open Senate seats are for 2020 - but it would be nice to have people like Mitch and Lindsey lose a bit of their power.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Left leaning media outlets really are starting to embarass themselves.  They are getting into the same area Rush Limbaugh got into during the Clinton Administration.  The democrats now have the most extreme voices being heard above all.  They need to step outside of themselves and take a good look right now

 

This BS about the Mueller report being a "small victory for Trump" totally misses the mark..  IF anything it is an embarassment for America.  So much twiddle about nothing.

As Smerf said.  Russia interfered with our election, that deserved to be investigated in its own right.   And Trump had every reason to obstruct on that front to preserve his Trump Tower/Russia deal, regardless of collusion.

 

What is embarrassing is that people are using a summary written by Trump nominated AG, who said before hand he believe the President can't commit obstruction, as proof of what the Mueller report says.  What is embarrassing is the assumption that the inquiry is over and there is nothing left learn.   What is embarrassing is that whether or not the President criminally conspired, people dismiss the possibility that his behavior was wrong, self-interested, and at opposition with American interests and democracy.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Dumb question. Why isn’t the report automatically made public?

[Vanimal46]

Dumb question. Why isn’t the report automatically made public?

Potentially dumb answer. Maybe there's classified info they need to scrub/redact before releasing to the public?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on... I have several friends who refuse to back down until they personally see the full report. They desperately want this to be the ticket to impeach Trump. I don't think they'll get their wish.

I'd like to see the report but it's not necessary... whereas Congress absolutely needs to see the report.

 

Why? Because remember that this wasn't an investigation that started with the premise of collusion, its original premise was election interference by a foreign government.

 

And that was absolutely shown to be the case.

 

Okay, so we established a crime happened here. Now we need the legislative body to weigh in on the subject to enact, you know, actual legislation to counteract the interference.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This BS about the Mueller report being a "small victory for Trump" totally misses the mark..  IF anything it is an embarassment for America.  So much twiddle about nothing.

Except for the part about it being an investigation into election tampering by a foreign government that ended up finding election tampering and indicting a load of foreign nationals as a result.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'd like to see the report but it's not necessary... whereas Congress absolutely needs to see the report.

 

Why? Because remember that this wasn't an investigation that started with the premise of collusion, its original premise was election interference by a foreign government.

 

And that was absolutely shown to be the case.

 

Okay, so we established a crime happened here. Now we need the legislative body to weigh in on the subject to enact, you know, actual legislation to counteract the interference.

 

I'm with this 100%.  In terms of governing, there are a lot of things the Dems should do with the Mueller report. 

 

In terms of politics....the findings cannot become a football unless there is significantly good reason to do so.  They have to be accepted, even if disappointing.

[ewen21]

 

Except for the part about it being an investigation into election tampering by a foreign government that ended up finding election tampering and indicting a load of foreign nationals as a result.

You think I am talking about Mueller and the investigation itself?  My entire post was about the media portrayal of this thing so I am not sure what you are doing,  The twiddle came from places like MSNBC and CNN, not Mueller or the investigation.

 

 

[Badsmerf]

You think I am talking about Mueller and the investigation itself? My entire post was about the media portrayal of this thing so I am not sure what you are doing, The twiddle came from places like MSNBC and CNN, not Mueller or the investigation.

What is your problem with the way the media covered the investigation? How were they supposed to cover it? No cnn coverage that I listened to on serious xm threw out wild allegations. There were serious questions, that still exist, the were being asked.

 

Is obstruction of justice an afterthought?

[biggentleben]

 

What is your problem with the way the media covered the investigation? How were they supposed to cover it? No cnn coverage that I listened to on serious xm threw out wild allegations. There were serious questions, that still exist, the were being asked.

Is obstruction of justice an afterthought?

 

...and this has been turned over to state offices to investigate where they would be better able to do so. The final tally of this investigation is not done.

[Mike Sixel]

43% approve of the job he's doing. How can we reconcile our vast differences on education, the environment, and healthcare?

[ewen21]

 

What is your problem with the way the media covered the investigation? How were they supposed to cover it? No cnn coverage that I listened to on serious xm threw out wild allegations. There were serious questions, that still exist, the were being asked.

Is obstruction of justice an afterthought?

The nonstop chatter about impeachment before the report even came out was utterly absurd.  I already said it was on the level of Rush Limbaugh-like paranoia.  The distinction that must be made is Limbaugh was a single person on the radio in the 90s who got three or four hours of airtime five days a week.  CNN is a media giant that broadcasts 24/7 and has the Internet (something Limbaugh barely had during the Clinton administration).  Nearly the entire thrust of CNN reporting has to do with pushing forward any kernel that could give their audience hopes for impeachment.  It was exactly where the right was during Clinton's second term, but it is worse now because of the way the media has proliferated over the last 20 years.  Watch the video (or don't).

 

That is all.

[PseudoSABR]

 

 

The first "Related Channel" is Fox News.  ::eyeroll

 

And I imagine it's a serious of anecdotal evidence to show "the entire thrust" of CNN. 

 

And there's plenty of reasons to impeach Trump that have nothing to do with the Mueller report.

[ewen21]

I'm not defending FOX so don't use FOX to justify or deflect from the hack reporting CNN has troweled out. This isn't FOX vs CNN debate if that's what you're looking for.

 

I'm not a fan of FOX either so don't make the leap that me ripping CNN makes a some FOX loyalist. CNN is looking clownish and desperate and if you want to defend that then catch you later

[ewen21]

And of course, you didn't watch even a minute of the video.

[PseudoSABR]

 

And of course, you didn't watch even a minute of the video.

It's proof of nothing.  You still don't understand the problem with anecdotal evidence, do you?

 

I'm sure a similar video could be made of every media installation that's on air for 24 hours; what the heck would you have them talk about?  Mueller's investigation was serious news.  Trump's impeach liability is an actual thing.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'm not defending FOX so don't use FOX to justify or deflect from the hack reporting CNN has troweled out. This isn't FOX vs CNN debate if that's what you're looking for.

I'm not a fan of FOX either so don't make the leap that me ripping CNN makes a some FOX loyalist. CNN is looking clownish and desperate and if you want to defend that then catch you later

The youtube channel you cited to, if you look at their videos, clearly is keyed on taking down liberals/libtards, so I wasn't interested at all interested the content of the video.  I don't care whether you like Fox or not, but that you cited to a youtube channel with a similar sort of bias seems problematic to me.  

 

For instance, there's a video of AOC saying "like" a bunch; that's worse than major media.  So give me a break if I don't indulge this 'source.'

[LaBombo]

 

The first "Related Channel" is Fox News.  ::eyeroll

 

And I imagine it's a serious of anecdotal evidence to show "the entire thrust" of CNN. 

 

And there's plenty of reasons to impeach Trump that have nothing to do with the Mueller report.

 

Not seeing your intent with your first sentence. Honest, I tried. But the clip ewen posted has no apparent connection to Fox, so all I'm able to glean from your 'Fox = eyeroll' thing is that you'll be a proud flat-earther the moment Fox (or any other right of center media) declares the world to be round.

 

Your second sentence is a bit more clear; I think you're saying that media coverage of the likelihood of impeachment prior to the release of the Mueller report was accurate, proportional to the publicly available evidence, and consistent in its volume of airtime with other important issues.

 

In essence, you're saying (as badsmerf did) that the media (non-Fox, of course) got pre-Mueller Report impeachment coverage right.

 

Rather than argue that point with you myself, I'm going to defer to a well-known political commentator's summary of mainstream (non-Fox) media's coverage of impeachment/Muellepalooza:

 

"The whole [media] thing was a scam and a fraud from the beginning"

 

and

 

"This is the saddest media spectacle I've ever seen".

 

 

That darn Glenn Greenwald, always trading in far-right hyperbole.

 

Yeah. That's right.

 

Glenn.

 

Effenheimering.

 

Greenwald.

 

The far left Democracy Now! hosted Greenwald and the overmatched David Cay Johnston in a debate over the media's impeachment malfeasance that, had it been a boxing match, would have been stopped in the third round. RCP has the video and a complete transcript.

 

If you don't know of his far-left politics, his voluble anti-Trump writings, and don't already know of his (and other leftists') absolutely scathing takedown of the irresponsible hyper-partisan BS cranked out by CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, and other 'mainstream' sources that you're so confident in, then with all due respect you're out of your depth in any conversation regarding the media's catastrophic failure to maintain objectivity regarding impeachment and the Mueller report.

 

Democrats will probably pivot to their fallback talking points and bounce back from the embarrassment of the Mueller report, but the colossal systemic collapse of American news media leading up to its release will plague our country for years.

[LaBombo]

 

What is your problem with the way the media covered the investigation? How were they supposed to cover it? No cnn coverage that I listened to on serious xm threw out wild allegations. There were serious questions, that still exist, the were being asked.

Is obstruction of justice an afterthought?

 

With regard to your former point, relying on CNN to authenticate the veracity and sanity of CNN's coverage of politics is a poor choice.

 

And if you venture outside of the anti-conservative CNN bubble, you'll find that even reliably left-leaning outlets and media figures have spent the last several days excoriating the supposedly non-partisan mainstream media for failing spectacularly to proportionately and accurately cover the issue of possible impeachment.

 

With regard to your latter point, there is considerable anger offered up by leftist commentators toward DEMOCRATS for their MAKING obstruction of justice an afterthought, as the media's hyper-partisan coverage focused on Schiff and Co's repeated insistence that collusion leading to impeachment was the only story worth covering.

 

Democrats have fed their rabid base the fantasy endgame of a Mueller report that would culminate in impeachment and Trump being dragged from the White House in leg irons, and 'mainstream' media have feasted off the demand for what often devolved into elaborate fan fiction of how it would play out.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Not seeing your intent with your first sentence. Honest, I tried. But the clip ewen posted has no apparent connection to Fox, so all I'm able to glean from your 'Fox = eyeroll' thing is that you'll be a proud flat-earther the moment Fox (or any other right of center media) declares the world to be round.

 

Your second sentence is a bit more clear; I think you're saying that media coverage of the likelihood of impeachment prior to the release of the Mueller report was accurate, proportional to the publicly available evidence, and consistent in its volume of airtime with other important issues.

 

In essence, you're saying (as badsmerf did) that the media (non-Fox, of course) got pre-Mueller Report impeachment coverage right.

 

Rather than argue that point with you myself, I'm going to defer to well-known political commentator's summary of mainstream (non-Fox) media's coverage of impeachment/Muellepalooza:

 

"The whole thing was a scam and a fraud from the beginning"

 

That darn Glenn Greenwald, always trading in far-right hyperbole.

 

Yeah. That's right.

 

Glenn.

 

Effenheimering.

 

Greenwald.

 

If you don't know of his far-left politics, his voluble anti-Trump writings, and don't already know of his (and other leftists') absolutely scathing takedown of the irresponsible hyper-partisan BS cranked out by CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, and other 'mainstream' sources that you're so confident in, then with all due respect you're out of your depth in any conversation regarding the media's catastrophic failure to maintain objectivity regarding impeachment and the Mueller report.

 

Democrats will probably pivot to their fallback talking points and bounce back quickly from the embarrassment of the Mueller report, but the colossal systemic collapse of American news media leading up to its release will plague our country for years.

When I was at work, since I wasn't logged into either google or youtube, it showed "Related Channels" on the side bar, the first one was Fox News, the second was Mr. Reagan, and the third Fox Business, if you look at the subjects of their videos, the channel is peddling left-hate (but really doesn't seem to be advocating anything). 

 

Oh here it is, if you click on the channel icon: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd-n6wFyjm-nvpq2d9c9cLQ

Ironically enough, CNN is fourth related channel. 

 

Well, I'm not suggesting the media was accurate, but rather that it was pressing a story, the Mueller report, impeachment, Trump's wrong doing; and in talking heads media, you're going to get a lot of quips that guess the outcome, which we still do not know, unless we trust Barr's summary and the 48 words he quoted.  

 

Glenn Greenwald is a joke.  Since Snowden went to Russia; he like Assange has seemingly been shirking to the right (my guess is these guys were always righties, who shared free speech issues/privacy with the left and used that to rally support to their side).  For instance Josh Marshall's (of Talking Points Memo) take:

Sorry but Greenwald hasn't been left wing for years, and has been shouting against lefties and major media for what I can tell is the better part of five years, if not longer.  He also has a horse in this race with the Wikileaks role in the supposed scheme, so his bias need not be political.  (He may be anti-trump, but I follow his twitter and I haven't seen him mention it; I'll also note that ewen uses his own non-vote for Trump as some sort as meaningful of his centrism, which has yet to present itself).  If you want to present evidence that Greenwald has been a liberal recently, I'll listen, but as I've said he's been pretty self-serving on twitter for as long as my recent memory extends.  Here's his recent articles: https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/ he has an antitorture article which seems to implore Dems to do something, and he interviews AOC when she was a primary candidate, but the lion share is criticism of Dems, not Trump (beyond torture and foreign dictator support). Take a look, because, obviously you haven't. 

 

And again, Greenwald, is a freaking ANECDOTE, a really poor one, but proof of nothing. One ego's opinion.   If you point to say, Dan Rather, saying it was hoax, maybe I'll put some stock in his anecdotal account, but even then not much.    Let's see the report.   My guess is still that it was a matter of sufficient evidence as opposed to no evidence. (Would you like anecdotes of Republicans or supposed right-leaning people who also think that Trump may have committed impeachable wrongs?  I'm sure you don't because you know that there are many such people.)

 

You seem pretty reasonable.  I'm not sure why there's this insistence that the investigation was a sham from the beginning, when we KNOW that there was a Trump tower metting, a plan for 100s of million of dollar Trump Tower, a policy shift more positive towards Russia, and a President who was a Russian apologist, etc.  Not to mention the actual meddling in the election.  The media wasn't unreasonable, it was following the known evidence.  So shame on them? 

 

And look, no one's confident in the major media, but that's far cry from CNN running nothing but "Impeach Trump" all the time.  I'm simply countering ewen's poorly supported and exaggerated claims, that is all.  

 

And point to me where any of the Democratic candidates are running on Trump colluded or impeachment.  They are not.  Pelosi has put impeachment off the table, but still you characterize there main platform as a fallback.  

 

And the report hasn't been released, yet people have the gall to ask others to eat crow.  How smug and also glib at the same time.

 

I'm sorry but you're simply being disingenuous, not to mention, typically, patronizing and sardonic.  You're a valuable poster, but your tone sucks.  I can't weigh in if you're out of your depth, or just rude/arrogant, but there you have it.