POTUS Donald Trump

[Squirrel]

If I heard correctly, the Democrats would rather just give Mexico the money instead of Trump himself. Which is also really stupid, because Mexico is one of the most corrupt countries out there.

Um, where’d you hear that? Trump?

[Squirrel]

I don't want to get into this debate of popular vote vs. electoral votes. I didn't vote for Trump full disclosure. I'm just pointing out that the wall was his big promise on the campaign trail, and it makes sense why this is a sticking point to him to shut down the government.

Because what else can he say at this point that he's fulfilled with his campaign promises? Not much.

Regardless, we're going to see a gridlock for the next 2 years, nothing will get accomplished, then the same **** will happen in reverse.

He’s being an immature baby, in other words because he can’t get his way. I think the Dems and the Repubs had come to some sort of agreement and then Trump stepped in. So here we are. This isn’t about Dems and Repubs unwilling to work together. This is about Trump wanting what he wants and Congressional Repubs rolling over and playing dead instead of standing up and doing what’s right for the good of the country. I get being tired of partisan bull****, but that’s not what this is.

[Vanimal46]

Um, where’d you hear that? Trump?

Read it in the paper yesterday.

[Squirrel]

Read it in the paper yesterday.

Do you have a link because I didn’t find that information.

[Vanimal46]

Do you have a link because I didn’t find that information.

I don't. It was in the Desert Sun newspaper.

[Vanimal46]

They already compromised on almost 2 billion. Seriously, that money won't get spent in the next 5 years working on that wall and increases in border security. How much do the democrats have to give? Why should they? This is about spending billions of dollars in tax payer money for nothing. This does not help our country.

 

The argument isn't the same. If all republicans have is whataboutism, they are going to lose ever single educated voter. Stop the madness and just do your job and make good policy. Start acting as a branch of government, not 2 bickering brothers.

2 billion buys a nice football stadium these days. I doubt that's all it costs to build a wall. Not even close. You and I and others here don't think it will help the US. But there are millions of people that believe a border wall will help this country and voted for Trump because of it.

[Craig Arko]

2 billion buys a nice football stadium these days. I doubt that's all it costs to build a wall. Not even close. You and I and others here don't think it will help the US. But there are millions of people that believe a border wall will help this country and voted for Trump because of it.

What’s your proposed endgame here?

[Badsmerf]

I get Trump wants a wall, and many others do too. I also believe many of those wall lovers also actually thought Mexico would pay for it. Now that we have to foot the bill, I wonder how much support it has.

 

If this is the hill Trump is willing to die on, it will not go well for him or republicans. The entire party is going to be hurt by his stubbornness. Pass a bill and put all the blame on Trump.

[PseudoSABR]

Regardless of what voters wanted in 2016; the 2018 election was a repudiation on those voter's desires.  Trump may have had some wiggle room shortly after taking office, but after a losing election and two years later? I don't think so.

[Squirrel]

2 billion buys a nice football stadium these days. I doubt that's all it costs to build a wall. Not even close. You and I and others here don't think it will help the US. But there are millions of people that believe a border wall will help this country and voted for Trump because of it.

Well, so? I’m not sure what you are saying or what you are proposing. Just give him $5billion because that’s what he wants? He was given some and shut down the govt because he didn’t get it all. If we took a national referendum right now, the wall wouldn’t pass. I don’t care what Trump supporters want, and not all who voted for Trump want this, they aren’t the majority here and the president represents all of us ... or should ... not just those who voted for him. You act like $2billion is nothing, but it’s a LOT. Especially since so much else in this country is faltering from health care to education to infrastructure. But that guy in the White House could care less about anyone else. And, quite frankly, I don’t think he even cares about those of his supporters who wants this; he just loves fanning the flames on racism and hate. He wants it and that’s all that matters to him and shut down the government because he didn’t get his way. I am not about to support a spoiled, bully and give him what he wants because, what, it’s just easier? No. Again, maybe you could clarify exactly what you think should happen here because it reads as if you think we just allocate $5billion to the wall and be done with it. That will hardly be the end of it.

[TheLeviathan]

This is all posturing. It has real consequences, but DC never cares about that.

[Vanimal46]

What’s your proposed endgame here?

I have no proposed endgame. Wall or no wall has no bearing on my life personally. I do think there should be better border security. Both parties seem to agree on that.

 

What Trump could do is use sources of revenue in the executive branch that the President has authority to use without Congressional approval and build it himself. The past couple of presidents (George W. and Obama) have gone that route to accomplish the goals they want.

[Squirrel]

I have no proposed endgame. Wall or no wall has no bearing on my life personally. I do think there should be better border security. Both parties seem to agree on that.

 

What Trump could do is use sources of revenue in the executive branch that the President has authority to use without Congressional approval and build it himself. The past couple of presidents (George W. and Obama) have gone that route to accomplish the goals they want.

.

 

I actually think they don’t need better border security. Not to the tune of billions.

[TheLeviathan]

.

I actually think they don’t need better border security. Not to the tune of billions.

There seems to be an agreed upon need for more technology down there. How much that costs I don't know.

 

And immigration reform as well. Trump isn't interested in solutions or needs.

[Squirrel]

There seems to be an agreed upon need for more technology down there. How much that costs I don't know.

And immigration reform as well. Trump isn't interested in solutions or needs.

This I could actually understand and would consider the allocation of money to. Some of the new protocols Obama had instituted WERE working until the new regime took over. They should build on that. But $5billion for the building of a wall ... that doesn’t solve anything. What about manning it? Are you going to have a guard at every visible point for people to get over? What about circumvented via the water? This expense stops nothing and solves nothing. A reasonable approach, yes. Building a wall is nothing more than Trump trying to extend his already too small ... appendage. You are very correct in stating he isn’t interested in solution or needs.

[TheLeviathan]

This I could actually understand and would consider the allocation of money to. Some of the new protocols Obama had instituted WERE working until the new regime took over. They should build on that. But $5billion for the building of a wall ... that doesn’t solve anything. What about manning it? Are you going to have a guard at every visible point for people to get over? What about circumvented via the water? This expense stops nothing and solves nothing. A reasonable approach, yes. Building a wall is nothing more than Trump trying to extend his already too small ... appendage. You are very correct in stating he isn’t interested in solution or needs.

Truth is, he probably watches too much Game of Thrones. I doubt Jon Snow comes cheap, even in a better climate.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The Russian/rightwing meme machine informs me that Mexicans with smallpox are trying to get into the U.S.

 

Not sure what it means. Take it for what it’s worth. The 27% of Trump voters who will justify anything and support him no matter what aren’t going away, and that’s s majority of Republican congressmembers I’d wager.

[Vanimal46]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fights-over-immigration-keep-shutting-down-the-government/

[TheLeviathan]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fights-over-immigration-keep-shutting-down-the-government/

Among many fascinating parts of this....is Anyone else mildly shocked that Republicans are also trending positively in their thoughts on immigration?

[Squirrel]

Among many fascinating parts of this....is Anyone else mildly shocked that Republicans are also trending positively in their thoughts on immigration?

Yeah ... which goes to show ... this isn’t the Dems playing partisan politics as was the accusation made many posts above. Although the Republican Congress could end this shut down and override the president, right? Did I read that elsewhere? They don’t want to give him what he wants, but they don’t want to outright appear that they don’t want to give him what he wants hoping the public blames the Dems for the shut down. Okay, maybe a bit far fetched, but if this is about partisan politics, it’s not on the Dems. Not this time, anyway.

 

But this whole wall is a stupid, stupid, stupid idea and a gross waste of money.

[Squirrel]

I’m not sure it will happen, but what will Trump’s reaction be when/if Congress overrides a presidential veto?

[Craig Arko]

I’m not sure it will happen, but what will Trump’s reaction be when/if Congress overrides a presidential veto?

[Brock Beauchamp]

The thing that chaps me the most is that the American population actually cares about border security yet they're letting the biggest idiots in the room lead the conversation.

 

Democrats really suck at pretty much everything.

 

Listen, if we want border security, we could use a couple of billion dollars to do it. We'd add sensors, drones, satellites, security agents, whatever the **** we needed to do it. The areas that need walls (highly populated, dense urban areas) already have ****ing walls installed because THEY MAKE SENSE IN THOSE AREAS.

 

And all those changes could come in at much less than the cost of the wall while being MORE effective. Because walls suck at all of the things: initial cost, maintenance, and actual efficacy.

 

But, again, Democrats suck at pretty much everything. They could be storming this subject with reasoned debate AND FISCAL ECONOMICS but fail to do so at every turn.

[Mr. Brooks]

The thing that chaps me the most is that the American population actually cares about border security yet they're letting the biggest idiots in the room lead the conversation.

 

Democrats really suck at pretty much everything.

 

Listen, if we want border security, we could use a couple of billion dollars to do it. We'd add sensors, drones, satellites, security agents, whatever the **** we needed to do it. The areas that need walls (highly populated, dense urban areas) already have ****ing walls installed because THEY MAKE SENSE IN THOSE AREAS.

 

And all those changes could come in at much less than the cost of the wall while being MORE effective. Because walls suck at all of the things: initial cost, maintenance, and actual efficacy.

 

But, again, Democrats suck at pretty much everything. They could be storming this subject with reasoned debate AND FISCAL ECONOMICS but fail to do so at every turn.

And let's not forget the most impactful thing we could do, but the Republicans never will, bring down the hammer on companies that employ illegal immigrants.

They won't come here (or stay here), if they know it'll be impossible to work, end of story.

 

Republicans love to demonize illegal immigrants, but not as much as they like the cheap labor.

[D. Hocking]

Today in a cabinet meeting, where he had a big poster of himself on the table, he thought he would make a real good general, blasted General Mattis, said he could be popular enough to hold office anywhere in Europe, thought the Soviet Union had cause to invade Afghanistan, and said lucid statements like this:

 

TRUMP: "I had a meeting at the Pentagon with lots of generals. They were like from a movie. Better looking than Tom Cruise, & stronger. And I had more generals than I've ever seen, & we were at the bottom of this incredible room. I said, 'this is greatest room I've ever seen.'"  

 

 

How can the GOP leadership pretend this is OK ( I know judges, corporate tax cuts, etc., in the short term they are getting what they want and in reality he truly does reflect what they are underneath their conservative power suits and ties).

[Badsmerf]

How long does Trump allow this shutdown to continue? I don't think democrats cave to 5 billion. Trying to declare a national emergency is bogus, and will certainly go to the courts.

[gunnarthor]

 

How long does Trump allow this shutdown to continue? I don't think democrats cave to 5 billion. Trying to declare a national emergency is bogus, and will certainly go to the courts.

Not sure. Some of the GOP Senators will crack but not enough of them or GOP in the House to override a veto. I think Trump won't end the shutdown without some way of claiming victory. Sen. Graham seemed to try and create some version of that scenario yesterday and got shot down by the White House. So I would guess that this goes on for several months.

[D. Hocking]

If Mitch actually did his job and/or had a soul he could get enough Senators to override a veto.  Instead he is too craven and interested in his own self-interests to even bring something to vote unless Trump gives him his blessing.

 

Trump's fear-mongering is such a low point for the country - his latest tweets:

 

Humanitarian Crisis at our Southern Border. I just got back and it is a far worse situation than almost anyone would understand, an invasion! I have been there numerous times - The Democrats, Cryin’ Chuck and Nancy don’t know how bad and dangerous it is for our ENTIRE COUNTRY.......The Steel Barrier, or Wall, should have been built by previous administrations long ago. They never got it done - I will. Without it, our Country cannot be safe. Criminals, Gangs, Human Traffickers, Drugs & so much other big trouble can easily pour in. It can be stopped cold!

 

 

 

[Badsmerf]

Most Americans know he is full of **** saying it can be stopped cold. Barrier or no barrier, these people will continue to come into our country. Put the companies benefiting from it in a vice grip and squeeze the money or of them. Help improve the conditions of central American countries to make it more appealing for them to stay. We'd be better off using that money to send the military down after the cartels. Trump, and Washington in general, refuse to address the actual problem, and create a false reality to further their agenda.

[Mike Sixel]

We flew without issue Sunday. But our Lyft driver said his boss at the TSA already lost his house. The GOPs lack of empathy is astounding to me.