POTUS Donald Trump

[TheLeviathan]

They deserve it.  They created this Frankenstein, but it's trashing the village we all live in now.

 

And Dems should repeat this over and over again: The Republicans can pass a House bill tomorrow with a simple majority, but their bill failed.  Why did it fail?  Because they can't keep their own caucus together because so many of them are bat-**** crazy.  

[ashbury]

  On 6/22/2018 at 1:43 PM, TheLeviathan said:

They deserve it.  They created this Frankenstein, but it's trashing the village we all live in now.

 

And Dems should repeat this over and over again: The Republicans can pass a House bill tomorrow with a simple majority, but their bill failed.  Why did it fail?  Because they can't keep their own caucus together because so many of them are bat-**** crazy.  

And in every congressional district, the voters console themselves, "but OUR guy is one of the sane ones keeping the crazy ones in check."

[ashbury]

[AZTwin]

That’s funny. If anything I read that being direct to President Trump from his speech the previous night but of course the media and celebrities attack her viciously. You know it’s bad when she has to notify secret service of threats by celebrities to physically harm her young child. And all for what? Because the FLOTUS is trying to protect children from the dangers of illegal crossing and trafficking?

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 4:23 PM, AZTwin said:

That’s funny. If anything I read that being direct to President Trump from his speech the previous night but of course the media and celebrities attack her viciously. You know it’s bad when she has to notify secret service of threats by celebrities to physically harm her young child. And all for what? Because the FLOTUS is trying to protect children from the dangers of illegal crossing and trafficking?

 

Well, if that was the case, why don't we send military escorts to help them?  Or spend all that border wall money on giving people a safe path here?

 

Or maybe all this "trying to help" is bull****.  You should probably stop running that lie out there.  

[AZTwin]

I have live through 5 presidents now and I can say without a doubt that this is by far the only President I’ve been proud of.

[AZTwin]

  On 6/22/2018 at 4:25 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Well, if that was the case, why don't we send military escorts to help them? Or spend all that border wall money on giving people a safe path here?

 

Or maybe all this "trying to help" is bull****. You should probably stop running that lie out there.

They have a safe path here. Need to educate them on using it. There are 9 US consulates throughout Mexico that individuals can claim asylum and enter the United States. We can’t have them go through coyotes and the desert. We need to build a wall and discourage that illegal and highly dangerous situation

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 4:28 PM, AZTwin said:

They have a safe path here. Need to educate them on using it. There are 9 US consulates throughout Mexico that individuals can claim asylum and enter the United States. We can’t have them go through coyotes and the desert. We need to build a wall and discourage that illegal and highly dangerous situation

 

You should realize as a fellow Arizonan that the wall is basically a big red herring right?  It's not even possible, much less a deterrent.  

[Squirrel]

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 4:26 PM, AZTwin said:

I have live through 5 presidents now and I can say without a doubt that this is by far the only President I’ve been proud of.

I've lived through 9 ... and this is the one I'm least proud of ... in fact, am downright embarassed by. And not because of any disagreements I might have in his policies, but in his person. He is a despicable, horrible human being.

 

Edit: 10 - forgot about Ford.

[Squirrel]

 

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 1:16 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

You mean like the GOP did to Obama for six straight years? They even refused to vote on a SCOTUS nomination. Pretty sure Trump got to nominate his guy, though.

 

I'm not defending every action of the Democrats over the past 18 months but don't even try to play the obstruction card. In case you haven't noticed, the GOP controls every level of government right now.

This isn't new, but was doubled down on with Obama. This was the Newt Gingrich plan during the Clinton years. Not that Clinton is a favorite of mine, because he wasn't, but, this idea of blocking everything and anything they could because they hated the guy ... just not a new tactic. The new tactic was to try to undo absolutely everything Obama did, not because it was the best thing to do, or because they had something better to put in its place, but because the hate runs deep for the black man.

[Craig Arko]

I rather had a weak spot for this guy. Not a perfect man by any means, but then neither am I.

 

[D. Hocking]

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 4:49 PM, Carole Keller said:

He is a despicable, horrible human being.

 

Besides the lying and tweeting his own version of facts, mocking people he disagrees with, his seeming admiration of a number of dictators, his increasingly blatant attempt to dehumanize people south of the border by lumping them all as gang-members and using terms such as infestation, his lack of interest of anyone who is not his base, his increasing need for the campaign rallies where he is the center of a cheering crowd where he says things to get large applause even if they are false and possibly going to further whip up fear or hate, his turning a blind eye of the corruption of Scott Pruitt because he is getting down what he wants (even if it really is the exact opposite purpose of the agency he is heading), etc..  he really is not that bad.

 

 

 

[ashbury]

 

  On 6/22/2018 at 5:19 PM, D. Hocking said:

Besides the lying and tweeting his own version of facts, mocking people he disagrees with, his seeming admiration of a number of dictators, his increasingly blatant attempt to dehumanize people south of the border by lumping them all as gang-members and using terms such as infestation, his lack of interest of anyone who is not his base, his increasing need for the campaign rallies where he is the center of a cheering crowd where he says things to get large applause even if they are false and possibly going to further whip up fear or hate, his turning a blind eye of the corruption of Scott Pruitt because he is getting down what he wants (even if it really is the exact opposite purpose of the agency he is heading)

 

Picky. Picky. Picky.

[Badsmerf]

I missed a lot of this discussion. I'm really struggling to see how people in this country justified ripping kids away from their parents. 55% of republicans agreed with this policy. The comparisons to concentration camps are valid... And they are being supported by a segment of the population that hate people kneeling for the national anthem.

Sure, there was an executive order signed. There is no plan to bring these families together again, and in some cases they might not ever be. Attempting to justify this, should make you reevaluate your morals, how you view the worth of others, and what the motivations are for why you feel the way you do. The entire world was disgusted with this policy, and likely, the way this administration conducts itself.

Now, I'd like to address the people we're taking about. First of all, how dare anyone vilify or call these people liars. They are not criminals. In many cases they are from central America (not Mexico...), fleeing conditions many in this country couldn't imagine. You think the actual criminals are doing this? They wouldn't be very good criminals to walk right up to border Patrol and ask for asylum. Then, they are getting arrested and put in jail for a misdemeanor. Same charge as bedding drink in public or pretty theft.

The self righteous attitude that they need to"do it the right way" is a cop out and cowardly response. Go ahead, blame the victims. They are easy targets and don't have any legs to stand on. That is exactly what kept slaves slaves. That is exactly what keeps making the 1% more wealthy. The reason why Ted Cruz wanted more judges, is to expedite these cases and allow people to get approved for asylum that deserve it. Trump **** on that idea, because that would allow more people in to the country. He doesn't want anyone to be allowed in except white people or the best and smartest brown people (that aren't Muslim).

[AZTwin]

  On 6/22/2018 at 10:02 PM, Badsmerf said:

I missed a lot of this discussion. I'm really struggling to see how people in this country justified ripping kids away from their parents. 55% of republicans agreed with this policy. The comparisons to concentration camps are valid... And they are being supported by a segment of the population that hate people kneeling for the national anthem.

 

Sure, there was an executive order signed. There is no plan to bring these families together again, and in some cases they might not ever be. Attempting to justify this, should make you reevaluate your morals, how you view the worth of others, and what the motivations are for why you feel the way you do. The entire world was disgusted with this policy, and likely, the way this administration conducts itself.

 

Now, I'd like to address the people we're taking about. First of all, how dare anyone vilify or call these people liars. They are not criminals. In many cases they are from central America (not Mexico...), fleeing conditions many in this country couldn't imagine. You think the actual criminals are doing this? They wouldn't be very good criminals to walk right up to border Patrol and ask for asylum. Then, they are getting arrested and put in jail for a misdemeanor. Same charge as bedding drink in public or pretty theft.

 

The self righteous attitude that they need to"do it the right way" is a cop out and cowardly response. Go ahead, blame the victims. They are easy targets and don't have any legs to stand on. That is exactly what kept slaves slaves. That is exactly what keeps making the 1% more wealthy. The reason why Ted Cruz wanted more judges, is to expedite these cases and allow people to get approved for asylum that deserve it. Trump **** on that idea, because that would allow more people in to the country. He doesn't want anyone to be allowed in except white people or the best and smartest brown people (that aren't Muslim).

Because the emotional argument is such a small minded argument. You really think republicans are heartless and evil? Get real. Look at the real story. They are protecting kids from trafficking at a much bigger clip. Almost every single media story of the inhumane conditions were from the obama era and the article from the Times had to be rescinded. That isn’t to say it didn’t occur under Trump as well. It did. The border is a mess and needs to be fixed. Trump has been saying that all along. Democrats showed they wanted a bill that would protect families and the Republicans were willing to work at that. Ted Cruz drafted a very narrow bipartisan bill that would fix the issue and the democrats wanted to blame Trump some more, so he did the executive order. This issue isn’t as straight forward as “do what we say or you want kids and are evil”. There are very real issues with human trafficking and other dangers with crossing illegally. It would be nice if the democrats were willing to help rather than virtue signal the whole time

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 3:04 AM, AZTwin said:

Because the emotional argument is such a small minded argument. 

 

You don't think the Trump appeal on immigration is also based on emotion?

[Badsmerf]

  On 6/23/2018 at 3:04 AM, AZTwin said:

Because the emotional argument is such a small minded argument. You really think republicans are heartless and evil? Get real. Look at the real story. They are protecting kids from trafficking at a much bigger clip. Almost every single media story of the inhumane conditions were from the obama era and the article from the Times had to be rescinded. That isn’t to say it didn’t occur under Trump as well. It did. The border is a mess and needs to be fixed. Trump has been saying that all along. Democrats showed they wanted a bill that would protect families and the Republicans were willing to work at that. Ted Cruz drafted a very narrow bipartisan bill that would fix the issue and the democrats wanted to blame Trump some more, so he did the executive order. This issue isn’t as straight forward as “do what we say or you want kids and are evil”. There are very real issues with human trafficking and other dangers with crossing illegally. It would be nice if the democrats were willing to help rather than virtue signal the whole time

Let me get this straight.... Your entire argument that we're doing the right thing arresting people rests on the assumption that some unquantified portion of these people are human trafficking? Are you serious? I didn't mention the conditions, I'm sure they ****ing suck. I'm sure we are providing the basic necessities of life and that's about it. You think everyone was looking the other way when Obama was in office? They weren't, that is why there are pictures from then. The difference is, there was no zero tolerance policy. Obama deported more immigrants than any president before him. You think he was easy on immigrants? Give me a break. He just wasn't heartless. That is our policy now. It with the brown, unless they have lots of money, more white to purify the country.

[AZTwin]

I see you are buying into the anti white bias. I love people of all colors. Hell my girlfriend is Mexican. Democrats bring in race to divide the country more. But let me guess, I’m a slave owner if I think that?

[PseudoSABR]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 3:56 AM, AZTwin said:

I see you are buying into the anti white bias. I love people of all colors. Hell my girlfriend is Mexican. Democrats bring in race to divide the country more. But let me guess, I’m a slave owner if I think that?

Dude, I don't think you're a slave owner.  But I think you're being sheepish believing that a significant portion of the children separated from their parents are being protected from trafficking.  Most are here, because their parents want a better life for their children, and I guess we really are sticking it to them for believing that!

 

Anti-white bias?  Oh boy, we have it so rough.  Everyone you've been discussing this with is white, btw.   Sadly, the our discussion forum, as inclusive as we'd have it, isn't all that diverse.   The notion of anti-white bias is a bit snowflakey anyway don't you think?

[Craig Arko]

[AZTwin]

  On 6/23/2018 at 6:13 AM, PseudoSABR said:

Dude, I don't think you're a slave owner. But I think you're being sheepish believing that a significant portion of the children separated from their parents are being protected from trafficking. Most are here, because their parents want a better life for their children, and I guess we really are sticking it to them for believing that!

 

Anti-white bias? Oh boy, we have it so rough. Everyone you've been discussing this with is white, btw. Sadly, the our discussion forum, as inclusive as we'd have it, isn't all that diverse. The notion of anti-white bias is a bit snowflakey anyway don't you think?

Sheepish because I believe in statistics that say that 83% weren’t separated from parents? Okay....

 

I can’t believe you are defending the use of coyotes for kid to go across the border when that is so dangerous and there are less dangerous and legal options available.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 1:40 PM, AZTwin said:

Sheepish because I believe in statistics that say that 83% weren’t separated from parents? Okay....

I can’t believe you are defending the use of coyotes for kid to go across the border when that is so dangerous and there are less dangerous and legal options available.

 

Do you want them to come here legally?

 

I ask because Trump's personal sycophants at Fox are dismissive of the children because they aren't "ours".  Trump has asserted the people coming here are rapists and gang members.  

 

So I ask - do you want them here legally?  Because my impression of the President you love and the side of the political aisle you align with are using immigration as a wedge issue.  To stoke the emotions and create a "bad guy".  You know - "They're taking our jerbs!" kind of thing.  I don't get the impression that immigrants are anything other than a scapegoat/foil.  Am I wrong?

[AZTwin]

  On 6/23/2018 at 1:46 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Do you want them to come here legally?

 

I ask because Trump's personal sycophants at Fox are dismissive of the children because they aren't "ours". Trump has asserted the people coming here are rapists and gang members.

 

So I ask - do you want them here legally? Because my impression of the President you love and the side of the political aisle you align with are using immigration as a wedge issue. To stoke the emotions and create a "bad guy". You know - "They're taking our jerbs!" kind of thing. I don't get the impression that immigrants are anything other than a scapegoat/foil. Am I wrong?

Yes I want them to come here legally. If that’s through asylum or through the immigration system where we are allotted a cap number of immigrants our country can handle as done throughout history of time. Doesn’t matter to me. The left used kids, families and immigrants as emotional support to avoid looking at the broader issues. Look at the media, you would think that detention centers was a Trump thing only and that he’s “lying” if he says the issue has been existing. Then all the articles, pictures and examples they use are from pre 2016. It’s laughable at this point. Fake outrage

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 2:22 PM, AZTwin said:

Yes I want them to come here legally. If that’s through asylum or through the immigration system where we are allotted a cap number of immigrants our country can handle as done throughout history of time. Doesn’t matter to me. The left used kids, families and immigrants as emotional support to avoid looking at the broader issues. Look at the media, you would think that detention centers was a Trump thing only and that he’s “lying” if he says the issue has been existing. Then all the articles, pictures and examples they use are from pre 2016. It’s laughable at this point. Fake outrage

 

The left did not use these kids.  President Trump did.  He was trying to leverage outrage into a political win for himself and completely miscalculated the blow back.  

 

Let me state this again for you because you clearly aren't hearing it from your news sources:  The Republicans don't need the Democrats to help them.  If they are so compassionate and so pro-immigrant - they could fix this issue today.  Today.  Without a whiff of Democrat help.

 

So why don't they?  Why is the President literally telling his party to stop trying?

[AZTwin]

  On 6/23/2018 at 2:35 PM, TheLeviathan said:

The left did not use these kids. President Trump did. He was trying to leverage outrage into a political win for himself and completely miscalculated the blow back.

 

Let me state this again for you because you clearly aren't hearing it from your news sources: The Republicans don't need the Democrats to help them. If they are so compassionate and so pro-immigrant - they could fix this issue today. Today. Without a whiff of Democrat help.

 

So why don't they? Why is the President literally telling his party to stop trying?

Republicans are trying. Ted Cruz bill was amazing but unfortunately it got 0% support from democrats. Pretty hard to get things done when one side obstructs. Would need 100% republican support. It’s pretty hard to get 100% vote for anything. And what are you talking about that it’s the right using the kids? Do you watch the news?

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 2:49 PM, AZTwin said:

Republicans are trying. Ted Cruz bill was amazing but unfortunately it got 0% support from democrats. Pretty hard to get things done when one side obstructs. Would need 100% republican support. It’s pretty hard to get 100% vote for anything. And what are you talking about that it’s the right using the kids? Do you watch the news?

 

They don't need the Democrats.  They literally cannot obstruct the Republicans from doing what they want.  Tomorrow every Republican could vote for a plan and it would become law.  They have failed to even unite their own party, much less bring on the other party.  

 

President Trump and Jeff Sessions implemented the family separation policy.  They spent a week unable to keep their story straight about it.  Trump spent two days blaming Congress and declaring he "couldn't do anything about it".  He then did something about it.  He did so after it became clear Congress would fail to deliver a law.  

 

These are all facts.  Not opinions.  Here's the opinion:

 

He wants a wall to stump on in November.  He also wanted to be tough on immigration and Sessions wnated to win his favor with a hard line stance.  It resulted in family separation, which was a new practice at the border.  When the outrage grew, President Trump pretended he was impotent to solve the problem to try and force Congress to compromise on Immigration - he'd get his wall and if the Dems didn't cave they would blame it on them.  Except all of that failed miserably in their face.

 

But make no mistake - Trump wanted his wall out of the deal and he was willing to pretend he had nothing to do with the separations, and could do nothing about them, until he got it.  That's how he leveraged those kids.  Maybe he actually cares about them, I don't know.  What I do know is he cared more about politics and leverage.

[Badsmerf]

I appreciate that want people to come here legally. Problem is, it isn't a viable option. If you were told your family needs to pay money to a drug lord or else get chopped up into pieces and you don't have the money.... you run. I don't believe for a second that the trek here is more dangerous than staying put in some areas. Also, let's make it easier and faster for these people to come over. Cut the red tape. Expedite the process.

[AZTwin]

  On 6/23/2018 at 3:09 PM, Badsmerf said:

I appreciate that want people to come here legally. Problem is, it isn't a viable option. If you were told your family needs to pay money to a drug lord or else get chopped up into pieces and you don't have the money.... you run. I don't believe for a second that the trek here is more dangerous than staying put in some areas. Also, let's make it easier and faster for these people to come over. Cut the red tape. Expedite the process.

And there you have it. You don’t care about safety of children you believe in open borders. We have to vet people that come over so we don’t let the dangerous folks your referring to over. Must protect our own children and help those children applying for asylum. Thank god there are 9 US consulates throughout Mexico for people who are trying to flee for violence can do so legally and safely

[AZTwin]

IF you truly believe Trump is the one who introduced detention centers and that the media is telling you the truth that “Mr. President Trump is lying” then why are all of their images and examples from the Obama era?

[Squirrel]

 

  On 6/23/2018 at 2:49 PM, AZTwin said:

Republicans are trying. Ted Cruz bill was amazing but unfortunately it got 0% support from democrats. Pretty hard to get things done when one side obstructs. Would need 100% republican support. It’s pretty hard to get 100% vote for anything. And what are you talking about that it’s the right using the kids? Do you watch the news?

Pretty sure the House and the Senate have Republican majorities. If he's not getting bills passed it's not because of the Democrats, it's because of his own party. A minority party can't be obstructionist when they don't have enough votes to do so, unless in the Senate they somehow get and keep a fillibuster going, but those rules have changed so it's more difficult to do even that.