POTUS Donald Trump

[Ultima Ratio]

Since so many have responded I'll just try to mention something here all at once.  As I said at the beginning, once someone mentions Fox News the conversation is derailed.  I did not mention this at all and even if one wants to believe that just as many tv news outlets are left as there are right (even the degrees, yes Brock, I know they are not all the same degree but that would be really tough to pin down how much leaning there is in some objective way -- EDIT: but now I see you have a chart, kudos ) -- what I initially responded to was that millions of Americans were brainwashed into becoming republicans.  I pointed out in a short list that we get the leftist/progressive messaging with our mother's milk on through our early twenties (in most cases).  I think it is clear that the brainwashing occurs there, with impressionable kids and youth, hostage to caretakers, teachers and parishioners -- to name a few.

 

I'm not interested in the media aspect of my arguement/list and it is not central so leave it out. I;m arguing that the "brainwashing" in toto is really going on with our kids and young adults.  Most adults who switch political parties do so in one direction.  Why is that?  So instead of brainwashing, I think Levi would be more accurate in what Pseudo was saying about media as such giving consumers what they want (for better or worse) -- but not "brainwashing" -- at least not to those unconverted.  

 

Don't get me wrong, there are many, many,many trump sycophants.  It's unimportant but I am not one.  But there were also legion Obama sycophants also.  These absorbed in the cult of personality are utterly non-rational.  They only want to hear and will tune into ideas and shows that validate their views or feelings.  If that is what was meant by brainwashing, fine, but that is just willful ignorance that is transcategorical.  The true brainwashing, again, is the youth and rising generations.  And that is overwhelmingly a leftist/progressive message.  Many on the left are not even shy about admitting this.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Since so many have responded I'll just try to mention something here all at once.  As I said at the beginning, once someone mentions Fox News the conversation is derailed.  I did not mention this at all and even if one wants to believe that just as many tv news outlets are left as there are right (even the degrees, yes Brock, I know they are not all the same degree but that would be really tough to pin down how much leaning there is in some objective way -- EDIT: but now I see you have a chart, kudos ) -- what I initially responded to was that millions of Americans were brainwashed into becoming republicans.  I pointed out in a short list that we get the leftist/progressive messaging with our mother's milk on through our early twenties (in most cases).  I think it is clear that the brainwashing occurs there, with impressionable kids and youth, hostage to caretakers, teachers and parishioners -- to name a few.

 

I'm not interested in the media aspect of my arguement/list and it is not central so leave it out. I;m arguing that the "brainwashing" in toto is really going on with our kids and young adults.  Most adults who switch political parties do so in one direction.  Why is that?  So instead of brainwashing, I think Levi would be more accurate in what Pseudo was saying about media as such giving consumers what they want (for better or worse) -- but not "brainwashing" -- at least not to those unconverted.  

 

Don't get me wrong, there are many, many,many trump sycophants.  It's unimportant but I am not one.  But there were also legion Obama sycophants also.  These absorbed in the cult of personality are utterly non-rational.  They only want to hear and will tune into ideas and shows that validate their views or feelings.  If that is what was meant by brainwashing, fine, but that is just willful ignorance that is transcategorical.  The true brainwashing, again, is the youth and rising generations.  And that is overwhelmingly a leftist/progressive message.  Many on the left are not even shy about admitting this.

Sure... I guess?

 

But does it really matter whether we use the term "brainwashed" or "eating their pudding" in a general context?

 

Maybe they're not brainwashed. Maybe they're just falling back to primal desires that help them sleep at night. I'm not sure it really matters. There are news outlets feeding some terrible ideas and we need to find a way to counteract their influence.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

Sure... I guess?

 

But does it really matter whether we use the term "brainwashed" or "eating their pudding" in a general context?

 

Maybe they're not brainwashed. Maybe they're just falling back to primal desires that help them sleep at night. I'm not sure it really matters. There are news outlets feeding some terrible ideas and we need to find a way to counteract their influence.

Insofar as words matter, yes.  These are not the same.  The former implies coercion with impure motives; the latter cannotes comfort.

 

Claiming that republicans brainwash is akin to saying that republicans vote against their own interests.  This is the condescending refrain we've heard from Hillary and Michelle for the election loss.  And, this is  the same song I hear from insufferable progressives.  And, this sufficiently explains why many (here too?) remain in the first two stages of grief vis-a-vis the election.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  The true brainwashing, again, is the youth and rising generations.  And that is overwhelmingly a leftist/progressive message.  Many on the left are not even shy about admitting this.

 

Except your basis for asserting this is in a flawed notion of what is or is not leftist in media.  Much of what you suggest is causing this left-wing influence is not really left-wing.  "Not right wing" is not equal to "left wing" and that is one of the trademarks of this influence on the right.  And it's flawed logic you have employed a few times now.  

 

I suppose it is helpful to define terms.  By "brainwashing" I meant - systemic pressure to believe something radical/non-rational/ridiculous.  What you mistake as being a mere sycophant or gullible/cult-of-personality type....I call the net result of years of this systemic pressure to turn anyone who isn't a Republican into a villain.  And even turn many Republicans who aren't "right enough" into villains or complicit swamp monsters.

 

They have literally created boogeyman and convinced a sizable portion of the nation that he exists, is in your closet, and waiting to get you as soon as you fall asleep.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

Insofar as words matter, yes.  These are not the same.  The former implies coercion with impure motives

 

I'm not implying it.  I'm flat out stating it.

 

And some of them have even admitted it publicly.  

[Ultima Ratio]

 

I'm not implying it.  I'm flat out stating it.

 

And some of them have even admitted it publicly.  

For the last time. Infowars and Alex Jones do not represent republicans outside of a small fringe percentage.  Can I say it any clearer?  

 

Should I assert that Leftists pursue anti-semitism by linking to Louis Farrakhan? Give me a break.

 

How does that fly... logically?

 

I have not done, logically, what you have accused me of... bad form (there is a whole list, it's just a sampling, it nowhere says anything of the form not A therefore B.

 

On the other hand.  The fallacy of composition is at the center of your Alex Jones admits trying to brainwash people, therefore (all) republicans are brainwashing voters. 

 

The hands of a grandfather clock are lightweight does not imply that the grandfather clock is lightweight.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

For the last time. Infowars and Alex Jones do not represent republicans outside of a small fringe percentage.  Can I say it any clearer?  

 

Should I assert that Leftists pursue anti-semitism by linking to Louis Farrakhan? Give me a break.

 

How does that fly... logically?

 

I have not done, logically, what you have accused me of... bad form (there is a whole list, it's just a sampling, it nowhere says anything of the form not A therefore B.

 

 

That "whole list" is of your subjective invention.  The objective data suggests your opinion is largely false.  If it doesn't fail the logic test, it fails the factual test.  So one has to ask then...how did you form your list?  

 

Alex Jones is not representative, but he is very influential.  And he was but one example. He has cordial relationships with people like Tucker Carlson on Fox News.  He had the future President praising him openly.  He's is not some fringe, he represents a fairly significant demographic of Republican support.  Something Louis Farrakhan or no other severe, left-wing idealogue can boast.

 

We know his motives are impure.  I think the motives of men like Limbaugh, Hannity, and others are less impure, but no less problematic.  I think they want nothing more than fame, power, and wealth.  And they will cast truth aside to get it.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

That "whole list" is of your subjective invention.  The objective data suggests your opinion is largely false.  If it doesn't fail the logic test, it fails the factual test.  So one has to ask then...how did you form your list?  

 

Alex Jones is not representative, but he is very influential.  And he was but one example. He has cordial relationships with people like Tucker Carlson on Fox News.  He had the future President praising him openly.  He's is not some fringe, he represents a fairly significant demographic of Republican support.  Something Louis Farrakhan or no other severe, left-wing idealogue can boast.

 

We know his motives are impure.  I think the motives of men like Limbaugh, Hannity, and others are less impure, but no less problematic.  I think they want nothing more than fame, power, and wealth.  And they will cast truth aside to get it.

I didn't have time to track down every footnote.  Kind of back of the napkin. 

 

But thank you for thinking so much of it that it might get to publication.  If you need convincing that public education skews left, then nothing will satisfy you.  But that's kind of your MO.  I do not take that personally.

 

More Alex Jones, now again with Fox news.

 

Big snoozer.

 

I do find Tom Steyer interesting though.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I didn't have time to track down every footnote.  Kind of back of the napkin. 

 

But thank you for thinking so much of it that it might get to publication.  If you need convincing that public education skews left, then nothing will satisfy you.  But that's kind of your MO.  I do not take that personally.

 

More Alex Jones, now again with Fox news.

 

Big snoozer.

 

I do find Tom Steyer interesting though.

 

You continue to demand everyone else provide you with facts and logic, but when asked to do the same you give snark.

 

I see evasions when your assertions are pressed.  I'll try again - you listed media outlets, education, and a variety of other things as clear left-wing influences.  You have beat this drum repeatedly and it is central to many of your posts.   So it would be nice for you to provide some basis for that.  Too many on the right assert this, not with fact, but with feeling.  (Feelings I'd argue are part of the very brainwashing I referred to)

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

For the last time. Infowars and Alex Jones do not represent republicans outside of a small fringe percentage. Can I say it any clearer?

 

Should I assert that Leftists pursue anti-semitism by linking to Louis Farrakhan? Give me a break.

 

How does that fly... logically?

 

I have not done, logically, what you have accused me of... bad form (there is a whole list, it's just a sampling, it nowhere says anything of the form not A therefore B.

 

On the other hand. The fallacy of composition is at the center of your Alex Jones admits trying to brainwash people, therefore (all) republicans are brainwashing voters.

 

The hands of a grandfather clock are lightweight does not imply that the grandfather clock is lightweight.

You continue to equivocate.

 

Alex Jones has real weight in this country. As does Hannity. As does Lahren. As does BANNON.

 

Show me one leftist as far left as they are right that carries the same weight.

 

Also, I can name a dozen more right partisan talking heads if you want me to list them.

 

The left has no one with the weight and following that also wildly disregards truth on a regular basis. I don’t even see how this is an argument if you’re viewing things objectively.

 

I think I see what you’re trying to achieve here; liberals at large are condescending. I get it. I even agree.

 

But your appeal to the middle by ignoring the toxicity of the far right and how much influence it has is ignoring what is really happening here.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

You continue to demand everyone else provide you with facts and logic, but when asked to do the same you give snark.

 

I see evasions when your assertions are pressed.  I'll try again - you listed media outlets, education, and a variety of other things as clear left-wing influences.  You have beat this drum repeatedly and it is central to many of your posts.   So it would be nice for you to provide some basis for that.  Too many on the right assert this, not with fact, but with feeling.  (Feelings I'd argue are part of the very brainwashing I referred to)

Sorry, it's like asking for a link that the earth is round.  There is so much out there that it seems intentionally bothersome.  But, if this is the first time you are aware, here is a link that studied many professions and their compositions of liberal and conservative.

 

All this corroborates my feelings.  Every single category listed.

 

You can click on each category to reveal subcategories.  I'll highlight those categories I listed in my initial post.  

 

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html

 

Teaching: 79% liberal

 

Media Production: 83% Liberal

 

Film and Stage pod: 93% Liberal

 

Editorial: 92% Liberal

 

Journalist: 82% Liberal (subcategory of writing)

 

Religion: 64% Liberal

       

Academia: 90% Liberal

[Brock Beauchamp]

Sorry, it's like asking for a link that the earth is round. There is so much out there that it seems intentionally bothersome. But, if this is the first time you are aware, here is a link that studied many professions and their compositions of liberal and conservative.

 

All this corroborates my feelings. Every single category listed.

 

You can click on each category to reveal subcategories. I'll highlight those categories I listed in my initial post.

 

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html

 

Teaching: 79% liberal

 

Media Production: 83% Liberal

 

Film and Stage pod: 93% Liberal

 

Editorial: 92% Liberal

 

Journalist: 82% Liberal (subcategory of writing)

 

Religion: 64% Liberal

 

Academia: 90% Liberal

What you’re basically arguing is that societal progression is brainwashing liberalism into children.

 

Which is kinda funny when you put it into the context of history.

 

You realize that the Founding Fathers were radical liberals, right?

 

Liberalism is about looking forward. Sometimes it leads to an idiotic end but mostly, it means we trudge along and progress as a society at large. We realize that those people our parents demonized aren’t actually demons and we pass that to the next generation. Then that generation takes our demons and does the same. It’s literally the template of western civilization for the past 500 years.

 

Artists and academics have ALWAYS been liberal because they either want to imagine the best of humanity (artists) or they see the errors of the past and want to correct them (academics).

 

So, yeah. Damn those liberals infesting our institutions. If only they’d stop doing that, we’d still be part of the Commonwealth.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

What you’re basically arguing is that societal progression is brainwashing liberalism into children.

Which is kinda funny when you put it into the context of history.

You realize that the Founding Fathers were radical liberals, right?

Liberalism is about looking forward. Sometimes it leads to an idiotic end but mostly, it means we trudge along and progress as a society at large.

Artists and academics have ALWAYS been liberal because they either want to imagine the best of humanity (artists) or they see the errors of the past and want to correct them (academics).

So, yeah. Damn those liberals infesting our institutions. If only they’d stop doing that, we’d still be part of the Commonwealth.

Stay focused.  This is a deflection.  You're better than that.  I gave you the facts, with detail.  They demonstrate my claims.

 

Instead of some humility you deflect and say, "Well, you're right, but....we're better for it!    That's quite an about-face. 

 

"American political Liberal" today is not a "classical liberal" -- I'm quite sure you know this but you equivocate anyway.  

 

 

To Review:

 

TheLeviathan

The Republicans have been brainwashing at elite levels for a long, long time now.

Though, their success is in part due to the kind of people they attract.Old, disgruntled, poorly educated white folks seem really keen on conspiracies.

 

 

And now: Brainwashing is great when liberals are doing it.  <<<bangs head>>>

 

 

[PseudoSABR]

This is a bit of back the napkin so forgive me for not sussing this out further.

 

We just can't allow the teaching of science and critical thinking nor compassion for others to be "leftist ideas". Each of those are values are inherently independent of bias. If education, in and of itself, is by definition leftist, well I guess, you win by defining the terms to suit your argument. To be clear, no one is training children to seize the means of production, or to stick to the man, or to reject family values.  

 

As far as actual brainwashing--which are hegemonic in nature; both tacit and hidden in plain sight. Take the pledge of allegiance, national anthems at sporting events, school rallies, the hierarchical structure of the classroom, the competitive nature of grading...all in my mind skew conservative, towards order. And they are structural which is far more influential. Add to this the television which teaches children that consumerism is good and bring you status, that failure is unacceptable and should be punished, that being both normal is something to strive for, that the market will bring you happiness...again all values on the right. Sure there's some tokenistic diversity segments, but you're not seeing pro-socialistic messages.  And then, there's the fact that Christian holidays are national holidays; under god on the money and in our pledge. 

 

Indeed where are the pro-universal health care, pro-welfare, pro-corporate-accountablilty messages coming from--they really don't exist in curriculum or in mainstream entertainment. But certainly nationalism, family values, reverence to god is every where throughout young people's upbringing.

 

Part of the trouble arguing this with you, Mr. Ratio, is you haven't really helped clarify what are Republican/right-wing values you identify with.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Stay focused. This is a deflection. You're better than that. I gave you the facts, with detail. They demonstrate my claims.

 

Instead of some humility you deflect and say, "Well, you're right, but....we're better for it! That's quite an about-face.

 

"American political Liberal" today is not a "classical liberal" -- I'm quite sure you know this but you equivocate anyway.

 

 

To Review:

 

TheLeviathan

 

The Republicans have been brainwashing at elite levels for a long, long time now.

 

Though, their success is in part due to the kind of people they attract.Old, disgruntled, poorly educated white folks seem really keen on conspiracies.

 

 

And now: Brainwashing is great when liberals are doing it. >>

If you wanted to argue with Levi, maybe you should have quoted Levi in your first response.

 

You quoted me.

 

And then I challenged your general statements with an actual chart. You mentioned its existence but entirely ignored its message.

 

So, yes. Let’s “stay focused”.

 

Also, please give me your definition of “focused” so I know how you’d like me to respond.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

This is a bit of back the napkin so forgive me for not sussing this out further.

 

We just can't allow the teaching of science and critical thinking nor compassion for others to be "leftist ideas". Each of those are values are inherently independent of bias. If education, in and of itself, is by definition leftist, well I guess, you win by defining the terms to suit your argument. To be clear, no one is training children to seize the means of production, or to stick to the man, or to reject family values.  

 

As far as actual brainwashing--which are hegemonic in nature; both tacit and  hidden in plain sight. Take the pledge of allegiance, national anthems at sporting events, school rallies, the hierarchical structure of the classroom, the competitive nature of grading...all in my mind skew conservative, towards order. And they are structural which is far more influential. Add to this the television which teaches children that consumers is good and bring you status, that failure is unacceptable and should be punished, that being both normal is something to strive for, that the market will bring you happiness...again all values on the right. Sure there's some tokenistic diversity segments, but you're not seeing pro-socialistic messages.  And then, there's the fact that Christian holidays are national holidays; under god on the money and in our pledge. 

 

Indeed where are the pro-universal health care, pro-welfare, pro-corporate messages coming from--they really don't exist in curriculum or in mainstream entertainment. But certainly nationalism, family values, reverence to god is every where throughout young people's upbringing.

 

Part of the trouble arguing this with you, Mr. Ratio, is you haven't really helped clarify what are Republican/right-wing values you identify with.

I really appreciate this post.  Some good things to consider -- some now and some at a later date.  I'll have to table the civil religion discussion for now (bed and I don't normally have this much time to write on TD, so may be a awhile, sorry).  My minor in undergrad was religion as we studied this a bit, but not much that a cursory discussion -- so I look forward to it.

 

I totally endorse the sentiments of your first paragraph.  I believe in a liberal arts eduction as in the kind of education necessary for free men, which is the genesis of the term.  Liberal, here meaning "free." The kind of indoctrination I'm talking about is not an explicit, "hey, let's get the bourgeoisie!"  It's the bias that leaks into one's teaching, one's reporting, one's sermon, one's guidance.  It's what is emphasized and what is not (or left out completely).  Of course you do get explicit indoctrination at time ins k-12 (Walk for our lives walkout), teaching all sorts of culture issues (how many genders are there?  Well, depends on which classroom you are in, biology or sociology).  In college, indoctrination is clearly a problem and more pervasive.  But I'm talking about bias that may not even by a conscious determination.  Obviously the subject at hand may make the bias more easily leech out (humanities) or not ("hard" sciences).

 

I agree that the leftist economic message may not be being "pushed" so much, but definitely the culture issues.  Whether one choose to refer to fetus as a fetus, baby or clump of cells tells us a lot.  But again, these are explicit things one says.  I'm talking about curricula, book selection, and so on.  Does the teacher use gender neutral terms?  Are bathrooms gender specific?  How and when is sex ed taught?  Is absence taught?  And so on.  The general theory is that we all have a perspective and our subjective bias will always influence our work and how we work.  And in education, with 80% being liberal, there must be implicit bias at times, apart from the hopefully rare explicit indoctrination (unless that's actually a great thing now, i'm confused).  I like to think I'm objective in the courses I teach.  In fact, those of us that are in the minority in my line or work actually self-censor and are highly aware of not wanting to "out" ourselves to our peers and our students.  I just try to play it as straight as I can and I assume most teachers do the same.  But the literature and theory tell us that biases have a great down stream effect.

 

I do see the messaging of "the 1%"  "greedy" "no one needs a gun"  "spread the wealth around" seeing widespread use in schools.

 

I'm rambling and tired so I'm just going to end it there.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sorry, it's like asking for a link that the earth is round.  There is so much out there that it seems intentionally bothersome.  But, if this is the first time you are aware, here is a link that studied many professions and their compositions of liberal and conservative.

 

All this corroborates my feelings.  Every single category listed.

 

It's rather weak corroboration compared to what I'm putting there though...isn't it?  I'm talking about how right wing politics are using powerful, influential individuals/platforms to push narratives to their voters about their party.

 

You can find studies where people self-acknowledge their politics as being left-leaning, but that isn't the same as showing this vast left-leaning brainwashing of children you first asserted.  To do that, you'd have to measure how much those political leanings actually come through.  

 

Now, I'm not denying they don't.  I'm sure there are plenty of implicit and explicit examples.  But you have a long road to show that data is anywhere near the same level as the explicit nature of right-wing media.  At this point, it's still your perception as to how much it is actually influential.

 

And, lastly, I have to call out those perceptions.  You listed a whole bunch of news services as "left" that I don't think objective observers would agree to.  If your perceptions about those news outlets can be so mistaken, shouldn't we also question your perception here? 

 

And this is part of the right-wing brainwash - don't trust "X" because "X is part of the left-wing media".  Instead trust "Y".  And then this large array of right-wing radio all starts saying the same thing as "Y" and pretty soon you have something the resembles more of a cult than a political ideology.   For one example: National Review.  A group I would hope we can all agree is not left-leaning.  They have been viciously rejected and mocked in many corners of right-wing radio and TV for having the audacity to stand by their principles in the wake of Trump.  They are a pariah.  Why?  Well, they had the audacity to break rank.  They are the cult member who had the guts to say "Hey...guys....this punch drinking thing seems like a bad idea.....amiright?"  And the rest of the brainwashed masses on the right rose up to denounce them as a heretic.

 

Now they are part of the "left-wing media" (I actually just heard this said the other day on a right-wing radio show).  To shift perceptions that thoroughly about an idea so preposterous....speaks to an awful lot of power of suggestion.

 

Frankly, I think your entire point about heavy left-wing indoctrination of youngsters to be a boogeyman you bought in to.  A boogeyman far less scary than your imagination likes to pretend.  

[USAFChief]

Sorry, it's like asking for a link that the earth is round. There is so much out there that it seems intentionally bothersome. But, if this is the first time you are aware, here is a link that studied many professions and their compositions of liberal and conservative.

 

All this corroborates my feelings. Every single category listed.8

 

You can click on each category to reveal subcategories. I'll highlight those categories I listed in my initial post.

 

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html

 

Teaching: 79% liberal

 

Media Production: 83% Liberal

 

Film and Stage pod: 93% Liberal

 

Editorial: 92% Liberal

 

Journalist: 82% Liberal (subcategory of writing)

 

Religion: 64% Liberal

 

Academia: 90% Liberal

So does this mean I get right wing propagandized every time I visit the dentist? I knew it. Hate that ****** ******.

[Badsmerf]

I'd like to point out, that this assessment that our youth is being brainwashed is a bit dramatic. Many of the identity political views are influenced and discussed much more by parents. In school there is no doubt influence, but it is much more direct in the household.

 

I, like many others were aligned with the Republican party under Bush. In the mid 2000s it began to shift as social media and these other platforms began giving a bigger voice to these "fringe" far right sectors in the party. That voice has only gotten louder and taken over more of the party. Now, there are millions.... let me repeat the millions part, that align themselves with that part of the Republican party. Only 63 million people voted Republican.

 

The party has lost its integrity. No longer can those in it claim the high road when they will not stand up to lies and corruption. This has changed the demographic of who identifies with the party. More college educated and wealthy people are defecting, and it is picking up more uneducated white males. The party is also getting older.

 

I'm curious what you consider liberal brainwashing. Is standing up for gay people brainwashing? Is saying the greed in health care in the open market has been a leading cause for high prices brainwashing? Is saying student loans that are crippling the millennial generation will have severe long term effects brainwashing?

 

To me, brainwashing is twisting facts and advocating lies. Breitbart, Sean Hannity, Alex Jones, info wars, Tomi lahren, red state, the NRA... these are all propaganda brainwashing outlets. And I could have continued to list more. This is the "we are the little guy" narrative that isn't true.

[Badsmerf]

Also, I'm more concerned with policy discussion here. As a country we follow a bell curve, so naturally, a bunch of people will agree on things. It is much more interesting to dissect specific ideas and have meaningful discussion.

 

Generic party politic discussions generally don't lead to much. In the time discussing politics here, my views and understating of why I believe in them has broadened. My political identity has changed slightly, but I still identify mostly with John Kasich, but more socially liberal.

[TheLeviathan]

If only we could dream of John Kasich being the face of Republicanism.

[Badsmerf]

If only we could dream of John Kasich being the face of Republicanism.

That's the thing isn't it. John Kasich doesn't get through the primary, yet would have beat Hillary Clinton or Trump in the general. I hope he challenges Trump in 2020, then runs a third party ticket. Bullies only get their way of nobody is willing to stand up to them and fight.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If only we could dream of John Kasich being the face of Republicanism.

Yep. The GOP primary system has become a toxic mess of people competing to see who can skew the furthest to the right.

 

If the GOP had any decency left in them, guys like Kasich and Romney would be leading the party.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yep. The GOP primary system has become a toxic mess of people competing to see who can skew the furthest to the right.

 

If the GOP had any decency left in them, guys like Kasich and Romney would be leading the party.

 

But Bannon, Jones, Limbaugh, Levin, and Hannity are the fringe!!!!!!!!

 

The last major Republican I voted for is fighting a host of difficult medical conditions after a lifetime of service to this country.  And the leaders of his party are mocking his mortality.

 

That pretty much says it all right there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But Bannon, Jones, Limbaugh, Levin, and Hannity are the fringe!!!!!!!!

 

The last major Republican I voted for is fighting a host of difficult medical conditions after a lifetime of service to this country.  And the leaders of his party are mocking his mortality.

 

That pretty much says it all right there.

What they're doing to McCain is despicable.

[Mike Sixel]

I worked on Bob Doles presidential campaign. Tim Pawlenty asked my wife and I to move to Minnetonka, where the party wanted me to run for House, them move to the state Senate in two terms. I was Senate district chair for the party for a term. Etc.

 

The party has moved so far to the right, as have most Democrats, that I am now considered a leftist. That's the issue here, somehow being pro freedom and roads and schools is leftist. I have moved way left on one issue, health care funding. Other than that, I am mostly the same guy.

[D. Hocking]

Think Trump will say something thoughtful about the situation in Gaza where 50 people have been killed in the last few weeks, including during Ivanka and Jared's photo ops ribbon cutting ceremony, or will he just pat his own back?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Think Trump will say something thoughtful about the situation in Gaza where 50 people have been killed in the last few weeks, including during Ivanka and Jared's photo ops ribbon cutting ceremony, or will he just pat his own back?

Yes.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Think Trump will say something thoughtful about the situation in Gaza where 50 people have been killed in the last few weeks, including during Ivanka and Jared's photo ops ribbon cutting ceremony, or will he just pat his own back?

 

This strikes me as political theater designed for the mid-terms.  The Middle East seems like a dicey place to play politics with.

[gunnarthor]

Apparently, according to this Republican, Trump voters are just big babies at this point.