POTUS Donald Trump

[Badsmerf]

I don't understand the narrative that once government gets control of something it is buns to fail. The things government fails at are where they dabble in market controlled environments. Once they stay putting money into it the market reacts from the increased demand.

 

Government is not the enemy. The army is an army of the government, and Republicans continue to pour money into it for no reason.

 

I have no problem telling a kid they didn't qualify to go to college to be an engineer. If they have bad grades and bad test results, why should they get grants from tax payers only to fail out? A system of checks and balances can be worked it in that type of system. The problem, is the change is so dramatic, people won't be able to handle that much change. Start with the trade schools.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I have no problem telling a kid they didn't qualify to go to college to be an engineer. If they have bad grades and bad test results, why should they get grants from tax payers only to fail out? A system of checks and balances can be worked it in that type of system. The problem, is the change is so dramatic, people won't be able to handle that much change. Start with the trade schools.

 

Right, but right now we do have a system where every half-wit can get into college so long as they can put pen to a FAFSA.  And that reality started snow-balling with left-wing policy.  

 

Not everything government touches fails, but some of it does.  Unfortunately, we don't have a party right now who represents that radical notion.

[Craig Arko]

Don’t go to college. It’s not a right. Go to trade school, learn to be an electrician, carpenter, or auto mechanic. Start a business and work. Enlist in the military.

Maybe get into the vehicle transportation industry.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Go ahead and wrap yourselves in the flag, you scum-sucking *******s.

 

Oy. How much it angers me to see people say **** like this is hard to measure. I don't have to agree with (or even like, really) McCain but I'll show the man the respect he deserves for all he has done for this country.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/11/610325611/mccain-irrelevant-he-s-dying-anyway-white-house-official-reportedly-says?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180511

[Mr. Brooks]

Go ahead and wrap yourselves in the flag, you scum-sucking *******s.

 

Oy. How much it angers me to see people say **** like this is hard to measure. I don't have to agree with (or even like, really) McCain but I'll show the man the respect he deserves for all he has done for this country.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/11/610325611/mccain-irrelevant-he-s-dying-anyway-white-house-official-reportedly-says?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180511

Would this surprise anyone though? After Trump already said that McCain wasn't a war hero, because heroes don't get captured.

Trump is an awful human being, who surrounds himself with other awful human beings. At some point, it's "case closed" and no further proof is needed.

[stringer bell]

 

Would this surprise anyone though? After Trump already said that McCain wasn't a war hero, because heroes don't get captured.
Trump is an awful human being, who surrounds himself with other awful human beings. At some point, it's "case closed" and no further proof is needed.

Honestly, where is the outrage? Somehow, if the shoe was on the other foot, Republicans heads would be exploding. These are people that represent the Trump White House and/or the Republican party and they are mocking one of their own and a war hero to boot.

 

The depths that this administration have reached do not parallel any previous administration. The corruption is off the charts and this is fine with 95% of the president's party.

[TheLeviathan]

The Republicans have been brainwashing at elite levels for a long, long time now.

 

Though, their success is in part due to the kind of people they attract.  Old, disgruntled, poorly educated white folks seem really keen on conspiracies.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

The Republicans have been brainwashing at elite levels for a long, long time now.

 

Though, their success is in part due to the kind of people they attract.  Old, disgruntled, poorly educated white folks seem really keen on conspiracies.

 

With what?  

 

A captive audience in education from age 4-22 and beyond if post-grad?

 

Entertainment media (Hollywood)?

 

Cable/TV News Media (1 vs. 8 at least)

 

Print/Web Media (way more left-leaning outlets)

 

Slouching religious institutions (ELCA among most others)?

 

Other institutions (Boy nah... SCOUTS)

 

Social experiments in the military?

 

I mean really -- the messaging from the Left is ubiquitous.  The one area where the right has more influence is talk radio.

 

Yet there is the brainwashing?

 

Or

 

Maybe more and more people see the constant rejiggering of society and human nature by the left and find it repulsive.

 

Or maybe

 

Most people still just want to be left the fudge alone and understand the merits of limited government and libertarianism.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

With what?  

 

A captive audience in education from age 4-22 and beyond if post-grad?

 

Entertainment media (Hollywood)?

 

Cable/TV News Media (1 vs. 8 at least)

 

Print/Web Media (way more left-leaning outlets)

 

Slouching religious institutions (ELCA among most others)?

 

Other institutions (Boy nah... SCOUTS)

 

Social experiments in the military?

 

I mean really -- the messaging from the Left is ubiquitous.  The one area where the right has more influence is talk radio.

 

Yet there is the brainwashing?

 

Or

 

Maybe more and more people see the constant rejiggering of society and human nature by the left and find it repulsive.

 

Or maybe

 

Most people still just want to be left the fudge alone and understand the merits of limited government and libertarianism.

It's more than talk radio. I know MANY people who exist only in the loop of conservative media: Fox News, talk radio, Breitbart/Info Wars, etc. 

 

And Fox News is the rational one out of the bunch.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

It's more than talk radio. I know MANY people who exist only in the loop of conservative media: Fox News, talk radio, Breitbart/Info Wars, etc. 

 

And Fox News is the rational one out of the bunch.

And....

 

Maybe they are tired of being under constant assault from small and inexhaustive list I put together above... who could blame them for wanting to come up for air?

 

Look at how you guys drone on every day in these threads (please no one say to adjust my ignore settings).  You don't get much diversity of opinion do you?  You drive out many and more know its a waste of time.  You guys love, love love to agree amongst yourselves.  I don't blame you for that.  There a particular kind of people that love discussion forums and most aggregate where they fell welcomed or.... at least heard and respected..... something other than the constant pot-shots an slander you can readily find above.

 

So just like I don't blame the usual characters in these kinds of threads for keeping up the drumbeat, and find it just as easy to forgive millions of Americans for CHOOSING to listen and read outlets whom don't revile and have contempt for them.

 

Or, they're brainwashed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And....

 

Maybe they are tired of being under constant assault from small and inexhaustive list I put together above... who could blame them for wanting to come up for air?

 

Look at how you guys drone on every day in these threads (please no one say to adjust my ignore settings).  You don't get much diversity of opinion do you?  You drive out many and more know its a waste of time.  You guys love, love love to agree amongst yourselves.  I don't blame you for that.  There a particular kind of people that love discussion forums and most aggregate where they fell welcomed or.... at least heard and respected..... something other than the constant pot-shots an slander you can readily find above.

 

So just like I don't blame the usual characters in these kinds of threads for keeping up the drumbeat, and find it just as easy to forgive millions of Americans for CHOOSING to listen and read outlets whom don't revile and have contempt for them.

 

Or, they're brainwashed.

They're pretty much brainwashed. Their platform is uninformed, contradictory, and hypocritical.

 

Do you know who else is brainwashed? Their far left counterparts.

 

The difference is that the brainwashed far left is inept and ineffective and therefore completely harmless to everyone but themselves and anyone in their immediate proximity (raw water! vaccines!).

 

It's possible to have disdain for crazy on both ends of the spectrum, you know.

 

Also, there are conservative media sources that aren't mind-numbingly stupid. I have no issues with those sources, to each their own. All I ask is for critical thinking, not agreement.

 

Double also, I despise places like Think Democrat almost as much as I despise Breitbart. If any news source tries to play the role of avenging angel at the expense of facts, I have no use for it at all. At all.

[USAFChief]

 

And....

 

Maybe they are tired of being under constant assault from small and inexhaustive list I put together above... who could blame them for wanting to come up for air?

 

Look at how you guys drone on every day in these threads (please no one say to adjust my ignore settings).  You don't get much diversity of opinion do you?  You drive out many and more know its a waste of time.  You guys love, love love to agree amongst yourselves.  I don't blame you for that.  There a particular kind of people that love discussion forums and most aggregate where they fell welcomed or.... at least heard and respected..... something other than the constant pot-shots an slander you can readily find above.

 

So just like I don't blame the usual characters in these kinds of threads for keeping up the drumbeat, and find it just as easy to forgive millions of Americans for CHOOSING to listen and read outlets whom don't revile and have contempt for them.

 

Or, they're brainwashed.

It's odd you bring up "brainwashed." Fox News' website today doesn't even mention the McCain comment.

 

Fox and Friends today ridiculed the "failing New York Times" for not reporting on the capture of 5 ISIS terrorists...which the New York Times reported two days ago. A full day prior to Fox News.

 

And since 99 percent of Fox's audience has no other news source, or if they do POTUS is telling them it's all fake news, many of them won't even know what some WH staffer said about a former POW today. 

 

The echo chamber exists far more on the right than the left, IMO.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

It's odd you bring up "brainwashed." Fox News' website today doesn't even mention the McCain comment.

 

Fox and Friends today ridiculed the "failing New York Times" for not reporting on the capture of 5 ISIS terrorists...which the New York Times reported two days ago. A full day prior to Fox News.

 

And since 99 percent of Fox's audience has no other news source, or if they do POTUS is telling them it's all fake news, many of them won't even know what some WH staffer said about a former POW today. 

 

The echo chamber exists far more on the right than the left, IMO.

Bolded: I think you are a day late.  (may be source of other problems)

 

I didn't bring it up. 

 

I don't watch F&F so wouldn't know.

 

99% eh? 

 

Anecdotal.

 

The end.

 

Edit:  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/10/white-house-official-mocked-dying-mccain-after-haspel-criticism-sources-say.html

 

Can't believe I took the 9 seconds to find this.  Not from memory mind you as I do not use their URL.

 

Boy, I hope this doesn't become tired Faux news bashing.  They deserve it though, amirght?

[USAFChief]

 

Bolded: I think you are a day late.  (may be source of other problems)

 

I didn't bring it up. 

 

I don't watch F&F so wouldn't know.

 

99% eh? 

 

Anecdotal.

 

The end.

 

Edit:  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/10/white-house-official-mocked-dying-mccain-after-haspel-criticism-sources-say.html

 

Can't believe I took the 9 seconds to find this.  Not from memory mind you as I do not use their URL.

 

Boy, I hope this doesn't become tired Faux news bashing.  They deserve it though, amirght?

The "99 percent" is a number pulled out of my ***.

 

Similar to "1 vs 8 at least"

[TheLeviathan]

 

With what?  

 

A captive audience in education from age 4-22 and beyond if post-grad?

 

Entertainment media (Hollywood)?

 

Cable/TV News Media (1 vs. 8 at least)

 

Print/Web Media (way more left-leaning outlets)

 

Slouching religious institutions (ELCA among most others)?

 

Other institutions (Boy nah... SCOUTS)

 

Social experiments in the military?

 

I mean really -- the messaging from the Left is ubiquitous.  The one area where the right has more influence is talk radio.

 

Yet there is the brainwashing?

 

Or

 

Maybe more and more people see the constant rejiggering of society and human nature by the left and find it repulsive.

 

Or maybe

 

Most people still just want to be left the fudge alone and understand the merits of limited government and libertarianism.

 

How can I argue with someone who uses terms like "way more" and then dismisses another poster for being too anecdotal.  Pretty rich right there.

 

The very nexus of the problem is in your last line though.  When was the last time the Republicans represented limited government and liberty?  The brainwashing lies right there.  They have convinced millions of people that they're fighting for something that couldn't be farther from the truth.  Instead, Republican actions often undermine the very interests they claim to fight for.  And they've got people layered in so many levels of hypocrisy and contradiction it's straight up madness.

 

No one spins like the right-wingers do.  Info-wars is listened to by millions.  MILLIONS.  And that's just the tip of the spear.  You can list all the examples of right vs. left and get into a debate about what qualifies as what....but it's not the frequency that matters.  It's the depth of the craziness and the number of listeners/viewers it has.  And the right destroys the left on that front.  And is far, far, far more removed from the truth in the process.

 

And yeah...this place gets too echo-chambery.  No one has the guts to post anything interesting because everyone wants to make sure they get liked.  It is boring.  It's one of the reasons I prefer to sample my opinion and news more widely.  And, yes, the left is annoying.  Really annoying.  Often painfully annoying.

 

But they're not nearly as scary or insidious.  

[gunnarthor]

 

And....

 

Maybe they are tired of being under constant assault from small and inexhaustive list I put together above... who could blame them for wanting to come up for air?

 

Look at how you guys drone on every day in these threads (please no one say to adjust my ignore settings).  You don't get much diversity of opinion do you?  You drive out many and more know its a waste of time.  You guys love, love love to agree amongst yourselves.  I don't blame you for that.  There a particular kind of people that love discussion forums and most aggregate where they fell welcomed or.... at least heard and respected..... something other than the constant pot-shots an slander you can readily find above.

 

So just like I don't blame the usual characters in these kinds of threads for keeping up the drumbeat, and find it just as easy to forgive millions of Americans for CHOOSING to listen and read outlets whom don't revile and have contempt for them.

 

Or, they're brainwashed.

Right wingers tend to be more emotional so it's easier for them to be lead by charismatic leaders or believe crazy theories (birther nonsense, Benghazi, immigration myths) or get easily riled up over minor things. We're long past the point of right wingers ignoring facts. They actively avoid facts and rely on feelings. Immigrants must be bad b/c that feels right. Hillary Clinton must have broken the law because she's that sort of person. The left wing media keeps saying Trump lies so they must be anti-Trump.

 

 

[Ultima Ratio]

 

The "99 percent" is a number pulled out of my ***.

 

Similar to "1 vs 8 at least"

 

This is petty and obvious (at least IMO) -- but FNC is right leaning.  Name the others.

 

ABC?

NBC?

ABC?

MSNBC?

CNN?

BBC?

Public Television?

DailyMail has a half hour new program in my region -- right leaning?

 

Levi, has been delineated so no, not anecdotal.  Do we really need to go through every newspaper and online news site for you to believe that left-leaning are the majority.  Come now.

 

I agree with your second paragraph though.  Limited government has not been on the ballot in many years, save local and state elections.

 

Infowar is not representative of right-winger BTW.  And shame on you for saying so.  Though, again, this may be part of the problem.

[PseudoSABR]

 

This is petty and obvious (at least IMO) -- but FNC is right leaning.  Name the others.

 

ABC?

NBC?

ABC?

MSNBC?

CNN?

BBC?

Public Television?

DailyMail has a half hour new program in my region -- right leaning?

 

Levi, has been delineated so no, not anecdotal.  Do we really need to go through every newspaper and online news site for you to believe that left-leaning are the majority.  Come now.

 

I agree with your second paragraph though.  Limited government has not been on the ballot in many years, save local and state elections.

 

Infowar is not representative of right-winger BTW.  And shame on you for saying so.  Though, again, this may be part of the problem.

First, I want to thank you for engaging on the subject.  You're always welcome here.  

 

Second, to address your echochamber remark, sure sometimes the people here agree, but there isn't a pervasive echochamber, take a look at the debate on education--there's certainly not some script that we are all reading from.

 

Third, none of the major news organizations, with the exception of MSNBC, orients itself as left-leaning. I know as self-identified liberal, I don't see my views voiced on any the major network news shows or CNN.  IMO, their bias is a corporate, profit-driven one, that does tend to chase scandals more than try to earnest journalism.  

 

Fourth, Fox News is not simply right leaning.  They seem wholesale loyal to a president who in many ways runs counter to classic conservative values.   

 

Fifth, if Infowars isn't right-wing, what is it?  Is it further right than conservative republicans? Fair enough.  

 

Lastly, I don't think Republicans are brainwashed as much as they are fed steady diet of tribalism--that is, that their belief that they are part of the righteous group is constantly reinforced and that there never-ending messages that they are concerted efforts by other groups to discount that righteousness and the people that make up the group.  

 

I mean from a values perspective, what is Trumpism, what is the right-wing?  I see lots of opposition and anger, but I don't see much cohesive values underpinning what the administration and its supports advocate.   I have my assumptions, but I'd rather hear your take.

[PseudoSABR]

I came across this last night and thought others might find it interesting.  I find it too brash and it probably ends up more divisive than it intends.   (NSFW)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43gm3CJePn0

[Ultima Ratio]

 

First, I want to thank you for engaging on the subject.  You're always welcome here.  

 

Second, to address your echochamber remark, sure sometimes the people here agree, but there isn't a pervasive echochamber, take a look at the debate on education--there's certainly not some script that we are all reading from.

 

Third, none of the major news organizations, with the exception of MSNBC, orients itself as left-leaning. I know as self-identified liberal, I don't see my views voiced on any the major network news shows or CNN.  IMO, their bias is a corporate, profit-driven one, that does tend to chase scandals more than try to earnest journalism.  

 

Fourth, Fox News is not simply right leaning.  They seem wholesale loyal to a president who in many ways runs counter to classic conservative values.   

 

Fifth, if Infowars isn't right-wing, what is it?  Is it further right than conservative republicans? Fair enough.  

 

Lastly, I don't think Republicans are brainwashed as much as they are fed steady diet of tribalism--that is, that their belief that they are part of the righteous group is constantly reinforced and that there never-ending messages that they are concerted efforts by other groups to discount that righteousness and the people that make up the group.  

 

I mean from a values perspective, what is Trumpism, what is the right-wing?  I see lots of opposition and anger, but I don't see much cohesive values underpinning what the administration and its supports advocate.   I have my assumptions, but I'd rather hear your take.

 

I'm concerned with the hard news aspects, not the opinion makers.

 

If we can't agree that fox leans rights, and the rest mentioned left, then we have an intractable starting point.  Bias is pervasive in the news biz and has been documented sufficiently for me to recognize the lead of news stories, the emphasis of the story and the headlines.  I truly believe this is a dogmatic blind spot for liberals -- the refusal to believe that the hard news of both print and tv is biased towards the left/progressive vantage.  

 

Infowars has such a small audience.  I'm not saying it isn't right leaning -- it is.  But it is a such a small segment of "the right" if we must use a linear political map (that I do not use except in shorthand to avoid a longer conversation).  I put it up there is the daily Kos and mother jones.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is petty and obvious (at least IMO) -- but FNC is right leaning.  Name the others.

 

ABC?

NBC?

ABC?

MSNBC?

CNN?

BBC?

Public Television?

DailyMail has a half hour new program in my region -- right leaning?

 

Levi, has been delineated so no, not anecdotal.  Do we really need to go through every newspaper and online news site for you to believe that left-leaning are the majority.  Come now.

 

I agree with your second paragraph though.  Limited government has not been on the ballot in many years, save local and state elections.

 

Infowar is not representative of right-winger BTW.  And shame on you for saying so.  Though, again, this may be part of the problem.

 

I didn't say it was representative.  I cited it as an example.  Is there any parallel on the left?  

 

I think the answer is clearly "no" and they are but one example of many.  

 

And I take issue that this has been "delineated" in any accurate way.  Bias is a nebulous concept prone to individual definitions.  If you are going to get petty with Cheif's assessment, it's only fair to play that game both ways.  Personally, I'd prefer we didn't try to split "who is left and who is right" among the media.  It's a losing battle.  There are people, on the right, who think Shepard Smith and Neil Cavuto are "lefties".  There is no upside in that discussion's details.

 

I would agree that the major networks are not right-wing.  I would not call them left-wing either though.  The only major networks I see explicit bias on are MSNBC and Fox.  After that?  It depends how far off the right/left spectrum you are personally and that's a waste of time.

 

So let's go back to what is interesting IMO.....is there anything like Infowars on the left?  Or Hannity?  Where truth is thrown so far out the window it's barely registering in the conversation and reaching millions of people?  That's the brainwashing effect that the left does not have any equal for in scope for that level of severity.

[TheLeviathan]

And my issue with the brainwashing is that guys like Hannity, Levin, Beck, Alex Jones, and Limbaugh have slowly eroded the value of truth on the right to such a degree that it's largely irrelevant for much of the Republican voting bloc.  

 

And I would cite some of the responses to Trump's personal behavior as a damning bit of evidence to that effect.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm concerned with the hard news aspects, not the opinion makers.

 

If we can't agree that fox leans rights, and the rest mentioned left, then we have an intractable starting point.  Bias is pervasive in the news biz and has been documented sufficiently for me to recognize the lead of news stories, the emphasis of the story and the headlines.  I truly believe this is a dogmatic blind spot for liberals -- the refusal to believe that the hard news of both print and tv is biased towards the left/progressive vantage.  

 

Infowars has such a small audience.  I'm not saying it isn't right leaning -- it is.  But it is a such a small segment of "the right" if we must use a linear political map (that I do not use except in shorthand to avoid a longer conversation).  I put it up there is the daily Kos and mother jones.

The problem I see with your argument - and it's a big one - is that you're using a single term ("lean") for wildly different sources with very different motivations.

 

CNN leans left. Not obnoxiously so, but they're mostly leftist corporate stuff.

 

Fox News is right. They don't lean. They're rightist partisans.

 

Info Wars is bat**** crazy, lunatic right wing conspiracy stuff. It's not Mother Jones, not even close. It's farrrrrrrrr worse (Mother Jones goes off the rails at times but actually makes an attempt to write insightful, detailed articles on a pretty regular basis, whereas InfoWars' bread and butter is lazy hit-and-run pieces).

 

Don't generalize because you're lumping in the slight partisans with the flat-out lunatics, which lends them legitimacy.

 

http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Media-Bias-Chart_Version-3.1_Watermark-min.jpg

[USAFChief]

I'm concerned with the hard news aspects, not the opinion makers.

 

If we can't agree that fox leans rights, and the rest mentioned left, then we have an intractable starting point. Bias is pervasive in the news biz and has been documented sufficiently for me to recognize the lead of news stories, the emphasis of the story and the headlines. I truly believe this is a dogmatic blind spot for liberals -- the refusal to believe that the hard news of both print and tv is biased towards the left/progressive vantage.

 

Infowars has such a small audience. I'm not saying it isn't right leaning -- it is. But it is a such a small segment of "the right" if we must use a linear political map (that I do not use except in shorthand to avoid a longer conversation). I put it up there is the daily Kos and mother jones.

I echo Pseudo...your views are welcome, always. Personally, I only respond when someone says something that I feel fairly strongly about, so my apologies if you felt attacked. I tend to say my piece with few filters.

 

Back on topic. I strongly disagree that BBC, ABC, Public Television, or CNN lean much, if at all left. That’s part of the problem here, I think. The right has redefined where the center is. What is “factual.”

 

They’ve managed to turn the NYT into “the liberal media” in the minds of millions of Americans. Not to be trusted, while Hannity speaks “the truth.” O’Reilly the “no spin zone.”

 

That would be a trick worthy of incredible admiration, were it not so terribly damaging to the nation. And make no mistake...we are where we’re at...”fake news!”...because of the right, not the left. It’s a really bad thing for this nation, when large segments of the population can’t recognize fact from bluster. When a special counsel can be undermined by a president through baseless innuendo. We were as a nation able to rid ourselves of Nixon because of the “liberal media” and bipartisan recognition of the need to get to the truth.

 

Can that happen today?

[Squirrel]

Where do 538 or PBS land on that chart? I don’t see them, but maybe they just aren’t clear on my small device.

[TheLeviathan]

I can't see 538, but PBS is listed as not having a bias, right in the middle near ABC news.

[TheLeviathan]

Here's what was telling to me, I've seen that chart before but really looking at it to answer Carole's question made me realize this:

 

I know of pretty much every outlet in the bottom right hand corner.  I know they have significant influence and viewership.

 

The bottom left?  Haven't heard of any of them southwest of HuffPo.  They could be imaginary for all I know.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I echo Pseudo...your views are welcome, always. Personally, I only respond when someone says something that I feel fairly strongly about, so my apologies if you felt attacked. I tend to say my piece with few filters.

Back on topic. I strongly disagree that BBC, ABC, Public Television, or CNN lean much, if at all left. That’s part of the problem here, I think. The right has redefined where the center is. What is “factual.”

They’ve managed to turn the NYT into “the liberal media” in the minds of millions of Americans. Not to be trusted, while Hannity speaks “the truth.” O’Reilly the “no spin zone.”

That would be a trick worthy of incredible admiration, were it not so terribly damaging to the nation. And make no mistake...we are where we’re at...”fake news!”...because of the right, not the left. It’s a really bad thing for this nation, when large segments of the population can’t recognize fact from bluster. When a special counsel can be undermined by a president through baseless innuendo. We were as a nation able to rid ourselves of Nixon because of the “liberal media” and bipartisan recognition of the need to get to the truth.

Can that happen today?

Well said.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Here's what was telling to me, I've seen that chart before but really looking at it to answer Carole's question made me realize this:

 

I know of pretty much every outlet in the bottom right hand corner.  I know they have significant influence and viewership.

 

The bottom left?  Haven't heard of any of them southwest of HuffPo.  They could be imaginary for all I know.

Yep, which is why I said the far left is inept and mostly harmless.

 

I have loads of idiotic leftist friends on Facebook; the kind of people who post memes that make you roll your eyes. Those people post links from those sources.

 

Outside of that, I'd never even know those places exist (earlier, I accidentally referred to "Occupy Democrats" as "Think Democrat").

 

Whereas Alex Jones is pretty commonly known. As are people like Tomi Lahren. They have actual, wide-sweeping influence and audiences.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Where do 538 or PBS land on that chart? I don’t see them, but maybe they just aren’t clear on my small device.

I don't think 538 made the cut.

 

PBS is top of the second rung, close to dead center (just like NPR).