POTUS Donald Trump

[nicksaviking]

 

I dislike both Trump and tariffs as much as the next guy but he appears to actually be using his supposed strength to his advantage for once: negotiation.

 

I have to give the guy a little credit here. He put the world on the edge of its seat with a flat tariff but has brought some of our closest allies - Mexico, Canada, Australia, and probably Britain - back to the negotiating table by exempting them from the tariffs... for now.

 

I don't like tariffs and I don't like bluster but he seems to be getting the job done here and deserves at least a little credit for it.

 

Yeah, I'll wait until I see the end result.

 

And by that I mean what the investigations show after his presidency as to how he personally benefited from these threats.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yeah, I'll wait until I see the end result.

 

And by that I mean what the investigations show after his presidency as to how he personally benefited from these threats.

Well, yeah, I still don't trust the guy at all.

 

But when he does something correct (or more accurately in this case, not awful), I have to acknowledge it in some capacity.

 

On a semi-related topic, I've been listening to MPR pretty much all day for the past several weeks (baby in house, not much else to do to keep my brain occupied). It's depressing to hear fake news thrown at some of these institutions that do such a great job reporting balanced coverage, the Trumpets just don't listen and can't get past ANYTHING negative said about the man. Our country (and the world, really) is in a pretty sad state right now. If anything, MPR has convinced me that not everything Trump does is terrible. That in itself is pretty impressive and speaks volumes about how they approach news coverage.

 

Not that MPR is new to me but in the past, I just picked and chose what I read when they posted to Facebook, which creates its own filter and skews things negatively toward Trump because that's how I naturally lean. When you pop on a station and just listen to everything they talk about without that filter, it pushes the coverage back to center a bit.

[stringer bell]

MPR is a great source. I don’t know if there’s much Trump has done that I could support, but it is better to hear both sides of an issue than reflexively blast Trump.

[Badsmerf]

I don't agree that exempting certain countries is good policy. Those are our closest allies, but the world economy is a lot bigger than 4 countries. It is yet another example of how government picks the winners and losers. Republicans scream about socialism, but this is much worse. I haven't read a ton of articles dissecting this move, but on the surface it just isn't smart to me. But, I'm a global economy person.

[Riverbrian]

 

Well, yeah, I still don't trust the guy at all.

 

But when he does something correct (or more accurately in this case, not awful), I have to acknowledge it in some capacity.

 

On a semi-related topic, I've been listening to MPR pretty much all day for the past several weeks (baby in house, not much else to do to keep my brain occupied). It's depressing to hear fake news thrown at some of these institutions that do such a great job reporting balanced coverage, the Trumpets just don't listen and can't get past ANYTHING negative said about the man. Our country (and the world, really) is in a pretty sad state right now. If anything, MPR has convinced me that not everything Trump does is terrible. That in itself is pretty impressive and speaks volumes about how they approach news coverage.

 

Not that MPR is new to me but in the past, I just picked and chose what I read when they posted to Facebook, which creates its own filter and skews things negatively toward Trump because that's how I naturally lean. When you pop on a station and just listen to everything they talk about without that filter, it pushes the coverage back to center a bit.

 

Welcome to the middle Brock. It's a great place to be. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Welcome to the middle Brock. It's a great place to be. 

 

It's the cool place to be.

 

It's also incredibly frustrating because roughly 75% of the population has planted their flag in crazy town/

[Brock Beauchamp]

Welcome to the middle Brock. It's a great place to be.

I’ve been in the middle for years. It’s the Republican Party that left me there, not the other way around.

[D. Hocking]

I think the majority of the people are probably actually in the middle, but everything is focused on through partisan lens and is presented in such black and white terms that the two sides end up doubling down on their position that no real compromise or discussion takes place.  Any concession to the other side's position is seen as a defeat, so instead of trying to work together it is now an all out battle between the left and right, and they ignore what the large amount of people in the middle want.  

 

I am to the left of the middle, but I understood the necessity of the other party to help keep things in check and represent people with other views.  Now it is not keeping things in check, it is more of a war trying to destroy anything the other side is trying to accomplish.  It is not doing what is best for your constituents, it is doing what will get your party a win or perhaps even more what will be a defeat to the other party.  It does not help that people/organizations with deep pockets have such a strong influence.

 

On another note, seems like another quiet day in the Trump administration.  No chaos there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think the majority of the people are probably actually in the middle, but everything is focused on through partisan lens and is presented in such black and white terms that the two sides end up doubling down on their position that no real compromise or discussion takes place.  Any concession to the other side's position is seen as a defeat, so instead of trying to work together it is now an all out battle between the left and right, and they ignore what the large amount of people in the middle want.  

 

I am to the left of the middle, but I understood the necessity of the other party to help keep things in check and represent people with other views.  Now it is not keeping things in check, it is more of a war trying to destroy anything the other side is trying to accomplish.  It is not doing what is best for your constituents, it is doing what will get your party a win or perhaps even more what will be a defeat to the other party.  It does not help that people/organizations with deep pockets have such a strong influence.

 

On another note, seems like another quiet day in the Trump administration.  No chaos there.

My opinions have shifted a bit to the left but not excessively so.

 

Yet I used to vote primarily Republican and now vote almost entirely Democrat.

 

Maybe the Dems have shifted a bit to the left on stuff like healthcare but I chalk that up more to the ever-shifting-leftward nature of western society that has been in play for three centuries or so.

 

It's the Republican Party that has radically shifted to the right and out of my sphere of political beliefs. All one has to do is look at the GOP's gun control arguments from 30 years ago versus today to see that in play. They're much further to the right now than they were at any previous point in my life.

[PseudoSABR]

Tillerson fired.  Not friendly enough to the Russians?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Tillerson fired.  Not friendly enough to the Russians?

A dumpster fire just got rid of a slightly smaller dumpster fire. Tillerson was more balanced and reasonable than Trump but everything I've read and heard about his management of the State Department is terrible. The department was barely functioning under his "leadership".

[nicksaviking]

 

A dumpster fire just got rid of a slightly smaller dumpster fire. Tillerson was more balanced and reasonable than Trump but everything I've read and heard about his management of the State Department is terrible. The department was barely functioning under his "leadership".

 

Wasn't that the intention with his appointment? Or was that just the strategy for Education, EPA and National Parks Service?

[TheLeviathan]

I think the majority of the people are probably actually in the middle, but everything is focused on through partisan lens and is presented in such black and white terms that the two sides end up doubling down on their position that no real compromise or discussion takes place.  Any concession to the other side's position is seen as a defeat, so instead of trying to work together it is now an all out battle between the left and right, and they ignore what the large amount of people in the middle want.  

 

I am to the left of the middle, but I understood the necessity of the other party to help keep things in check and represent people with other views.  Now it is not keeping things in check, it is more of a war trying to destroy anything the other side is trying to accomplish.  It is not doing what is best for your constituents, it is doing what will get your party a win or perhaps even more what will be a defeat to the other party.  It does not help that people/organizations with deep pockets have such a strong influence.

 

On another note, seems like another quiet day in the Trump administration.  No chaos there.

I have a small but important quibble with an otherwise excellent post:

 

I dont think most "are" middle. I think they might be if the political environment encouraged it. As is, too many otherwise upstanding, conpromise ready, listening folks in the middle lose their way and polarize.

[nicksaviking]

 

I have a small but important quibble with an otherwise excellent post:

I dont think most "are" middle. I think they might be if the political environment encouraged it. As is, too many otherwise upstanding, conpromise ready, listening folks in the middle lose their way and polarize.

 

I'd guess the distance people will run in the opposite direction tends to correlate to the magnitude of the insanity coming from the crazy person screaming at them.

[Mike Sixel]

Other than not messing up the economy, this is going about like many of us thought. I expect the speed of the destruction of environmental protection to pick up soon. That's not like money that comes from Washington, where governors push back on Congress....

[stringer bell]

I have a small but important quibble with an otherwise excellent post:

 

I dont think most "are" middle. I think they might be if the political environment encouraged it. As is, too many otherwise upstanding, conpromise ready, listening folks in the middle lose their way and polarize.

I, too, think most are in the middle. However, the parties have moved towards the extremes, with certainly the Republicans moving in that direction faster.

 

The internet and multiple media outlets feed the extremes. We don't have to watch Walter Cronkite or check out a balanced piece by NPR. There is plenty of content from the far left and far right to pull people away from the middle.

 

Further, there is gerrymandering. The two most liberal members of the Minnesota Congressional complement are in totally safe Democratic districts, while the most conservative is in the only safe Republican district. Gerrymandering creates safe districts, especially for the party that is gerrymandered against and we have people from the extremes of both parties as majorities of their Congressional contingent.

 

Trump has committed "crimes and misdemeanors" which would get him impeached, but his party won't even try to investigate and since they are in the majority, there will be no action on the multiple scandals.

[Riverbrian]

 

I’ve been in the middle for years. It’s the Republican Party that left me there, not the other way around.

 

Everything Everything will be alright, alright. - Jimmy Eat World

[Riverbrian]

 

I have a small but important quibble with an otherwise excellent post:

I dont think most "are" middle. I think they might be if the political environment encouraged it. As is, too many otherwise upstanding, conpromise ready, listening folks in the middle lose their way and polarize.

 

This is spot on. 

 

I declare myself dead center in the middle but in order for me to stay there... I have to divorce myself from politics and be content to sit on the sidelines and watch it and this is what I've been doing for many years now. I think both the extreme left and extreme right are crazy but that is where the passion is and they become the spokespersons because they are constantly speaking. From the middle it is easy to see that the extreme positions are necessary for balance because the middle just isn't going to be passionate enough. 

 

The system is set up for everyone to choose a side. The very second you take sides on any issue... it's a quick slide into the appropriate blue or red box.

 

All in All... I know that politics/public opinion is manipulation and I have to work hard to avoid being manipulated.  

 

 

[ashbury]

I declare myself dead center in the middle

So do many. Otherwise there would be no accounting for the people who declare George W Bush as too librul or Hillary Clinton as a conservative sellout.

[Craig Arko]

Dead center in the middle is a lot further to the right than it used to be. You can still put me somewhere in between Bernie Sanders, H.G. Wells, Bertrand Russell, and Carl Sagan.

 

Progress is a pretty neat idea.

[TheLeviathan]

This is spot on. 

 

I declare myself dead center in the middle but in order for me to stay there... I have to divorce myself from politics and be content to sit on the sidelines and watch it and this is what I've been doing for many years now. I think both the extreme left and extreme right are crazy but that is where the passion is and they become the spokespersons because they are constantly speaking. From the middle it is easy to see that the extreme positions are necessary for balance because the middle just isn't going to be passionate enough. 

 

The system is set up for everyone to choose a side. The very second you take sides on any issue... it's a quick slide into the appropriate blue or red box.

 

All in All... I know that politics/public opinion is manipulation and I have to work hard to avoid being manipulated.

 

This post is clearly missing 3-4 meaningless name drops.

 

Otherwise well said.

[PseudoSABR]

I think there is some conflation between moderation and reasonableness in this discussion.  I think we all have our beliefs/affinities for how we lean politically, but the great majority here are reasonable so that puts each of us somewhere in the middle (or somewhat on the left), given the stubborn, unforgiving allegiance that's become the right.   I've always been on the left in terms of my beliefs, but I've never been Machiavellian or, I hope, otherwise unreasonable, and I've always understood the need to have a conservative-minded (and reasonable) person as part of any policy discussion.

 

Although I do agree there is much harm in polarization and tribalism surrounding politics, I do think there's something of false equivalency in terms of which belief-system has a larger share of that guilt-pie.  Moderation is great in some cases, but it's also harmful in others in that it can grant the side which buttresses itself with half-truth and conspiracy theory an air of legitimacy.  (That's kind why Fox News went with "fair and balanced" tag line for so long.)

[TheLeviathan]

The right started and owns most of the negative polarization for sure. But it worries me what the left is doing to escalate in that direction.

 

I hope 2018's midterms show my fears to be misguided.

[D. Hocking]

Hopefully Lamb's win is real and is not overturned by a recount etc.

 

If so, will be expecting Trump to passive-aggressively or aggressively back away from his endorsement and blame the candidate.

 

I have now heard that Tilerson found out about his firing from the tweet and Trump called him hours later.  Just further shows that Trump has no character and vindictive.

 

Tilerson was a bad Secretary of State, but Pompeo could be even worse.   Not a good time to have a State Department in shambles with no one with diplomatic experience.

[Badsmerf]

The presidency is a **** show. Keeps getting worse. The only saving grace Trump has, is that he walked into a solid economy and he hasn't let it crash and burn. Every department has been a mess since he stepped in. The last secretary of state to not last all 4 years was Reagan's in 1982.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Dead center in the middle is a lot further to the right than it used to be. You can still put me somewhere in between Bernie Sanders, H.G. Wells, Bertrand Russell, and Carl Sagan.

 

Progress is a pretty neat idea.

Yeah, this is why I generally dislike the goal of "centrism". I'm between the parties, for sure, but my political beliefs haven't actually changed that much in the past decade. I've warmed up to a few government-run ideas like healthcare but that's because the situation changed and I altered my opinions as a result of that change. I don't like the government's ability to manage most things but given how things have spiraled out of control regarding healthcare, is there really another solution anymore? If there is, I'd love to hear it... but as-is all too typical of the modern GOP, they don't really have ideas, just "make it the way it was in the good ol' days" rhetoric that ignores a changing world.

 

The far left has stayed crazy and powerless. It's more of the same, only maybe a little more so than before. But they're still feckless when you get right down to it. They squawk a lot about identity politics, trans rights, and that sort of thing but I was on board with a ton of that stuff back in the 90s and early 2000s when neither party gave a damn. I didn't change my "leave my private life the **** alone" policies, one party just finally agreed with me about it.

 

On the other hand, the far right continues to drift further to the extreme and they've actually gained power and have effectively mobilized over the past couple of decades. They've regressed on gun control. They've become more rabid over abortion laws. They've even tossed around the idea of repealing the 14th amendment, for crying out loud (SERIOUSLY?!?!!?). Now they're going whole-hog on immigration, yet another topic where my opinion literally has not moved an inch since I became a voting adult. And let's not even bring up free trade, one of the spots where I pretty adamantly agreed with the GOP for decades...

 

My politics haven't really moved. They've shifted here and there but I'm basically the same political person I was at 20 years old, I'm just a bit smarter and more nuanced in my opinions to keep up with a world that isn't the same as it was in 1995.

 

What has changed is the GOP going completely off the ****ing rails and moving away from me on almost every political topic.

 

So why would I aim for the center in 2018? It's not, and never has been, who I am as a person.

 

To quote Office Space: "No way, why should I change? He's the one who sucks!"

[Craig Arko]

 

 

What has changed is the GOP going completely off the ****ing rails and moving away from me on almost every political topic.

 

It's like the inflationary expansion of the Universe. The further out you look the faster they are receding.

 

This is why Billy Graham is given state honors and Stephen Hawking will probably not even be acknowledged.

[jimmer]

It's like the inflationary expansion of the Universe. The further out you look the faster they are receding.

 

This is why Billy Graham is given state honors and Stephen Hawking will probably not even be acknowledged.

exactly this, though one might wonder if it's because Hawking is British.

 

But we gave state honors to a preacher. I couldn't believe that. Then again, I'm sure nut job Pence was involved in that decision.

[biggentleben]

The discussions of Putin roughly half way down this transcript (roughly 49:30 on the video) are exactly why our screaming and raving about Russian interference falls on deaf ears throughout the world:

https://russia-insider.com/en/kremlin-publishes-full-megan-kelly-putin-interview-nbc-cut-best-parts-video-transcript/ri22747

[D. Hocking]

I am going to go out on a limb and say Bolton replacing McMaster is not a good thing...