Forwards NOT Backwards

[Bark's Lounge]

I do not care about yesterday. I rely on today, tomorrow , and the days I (we) have left ahead.

 

I really don’t know what this future administration will bring to the table, and I don’t know if Don and his cast of characters will strip us of our social liberties and replace them with repressive Christian influenced laws and doctrines.

 

His cast of characters are mighty scary.

 

On Abortion:
PRO-CHOICE is a Secular Law.
PRO-LIFE is a superstition law (mainly Christian in this country), it is absurd.

We have come so far. We must be diligent and not let religion bleed into our laws anymore. We have a situation where it might do as such. That cannot stand, not now, not ever.

The Fundamentalist Christians can propose that in their community, as well as other religious groups. It is not right in our majority secular community. The secular community is filled with people of many different beliefs, they want a better society not infiltraded by religion. The belief is coexistence and cooperation, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Let’s play Devil’s Advocate:
There is a President, who has men and women put on Birth Control until they are 21 (starting at 12 years of age). After that, they must take an educational, psycological, and financial management class and test, that can prove they are able to procreate and support a child. This will all be conducted by the government and you will have to do much better than a GED. That is a country I could get behind, But it is wrong. Extremism is wrong!

The education of this country has failed us and the youth that should be involved in the coming years needs a better education.

 

Education needs a radical and rebellious reform. Every educator needs to unsensationalize fraudulent television and the false flag thrown out on social media, especially FaceBook... they really screwed the pooch and need to be intellectually discredited. Let’s make our kids intelligent again... let’s go the distance!

 

Some of you might not think it’s that bad, but a lot of you cats stick to your grounded principals and it is failing you. It has failed me.

[Craig Arko]

You might find this an interesting viewpoint.

 

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/46/2/LatinAmerica.htm

[Badsmerf]

Bark all you can do is control your actions. I just had a constrain with a friend in Texas i consider fairly intelligent. He is in the camp that doesn't believe the media, and feels they have a agenda. I really only think one news outlet had a specific agenda and can't be trusted. That made me think though, am I the one being duped? I don't think so because I branch out and dissect many different sources.

 

Stay strong. The world is not over. Minnesota elected Jesse Ventura and it a while to come out of the hole he made, but the state pulled together and is stronger than ever.

[DaveW]

Comparing Donald Trump to Jesse Ventura shows how out of touch you are if you can honestly try to make that comparison. It's pretty infuriating to be honest.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Comparing Donald Trump to Jesse Ventura shows how out of touch you are if you can honestly try to make that comparison. It's pretty infuriating to be honest.

Ventura being the more sane selection?

[Badsmerf]

Well first I didn't really compare the two, rather used Ventura's governorship as an example of a failed term which has been overcome. Also, the election of both was unexpected and relied on an untraditional set of voters. While there are a few more similarities, I think it is simply anecdotal. If you have some thoughts on the contrary do share.

[GCTF]

Based on the title I'm a little disappointed this thread has come this far without a clip of Kang and Kodos.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Based on the title I'm a little disappointed this thread has come this far without a clip of Kang and Kodos.

 

We all felt it in our hearts as we were twirling, twirling towards freedom.

[Craig Arko]

Hey, Bark. Don't know if you're on FB but look me up if you'd like to have a serious discussion.

[TheLeviathan]

Education needs a radical and rebellious reform. Every educator needs to unsensationalize fraudulent television and the false flag thrown out on social media, especially FaceBook... they really screwed the pooch and need to be intellectually discredited. Let’s make our kids intelligent again... let’s go the distance!

 

 

As an educator I think I can say safely that we are not opposed to radical and rebellious reform.  We may quibble about the hows and the whats, but we're open to it. 

 

But to oppose social media, terrible parenting, and the trends that have swept adults of all walks much less children?  It's going to take a lot more than educators for that.

 

Hell, it takes a lot more than just us to educate and raise your children too, but we're not getting much help there either.  Not you specifically of course, but you know that Barky,

[Bark's Lounge]

 

As an educator I think I can say safely that we are not opposed to radical and rebellious reform.  We may quibble about the hows and the whats, but we're open to it. 

 

But to oppose social media, terrible parenting, and the trends that have swept adults of all walks much less children?  It's going to take a lot more than educators for that.

 

Hell, it takes a lot more than just us to educate and raise your children too, but we're not getting much help there either.  Not you specifically of course, but you know that Barky,

Yeah, I know. I commend you on your sacrifice. It gives me comfort that you are in the trenches.

[ashbury]

Hey, Bark. Don't know if you're on FB but look me up if you'd like to have a serious discussion.

 

I keed, I keed.

[Craig Arko]

 

 

I keed, I keed.

That's all right, you weren't invited.

[nicksaviking]

 

As an educator I think I can say safely that we are not opposed to radical and rebellious reform.  We may quibble about the hows and the whats, but we're open to it. 

 

But to oppose social media, terrible parenting, and the trends that have swept adults of all walks much less children?  It's going to take a lot more than educators for that.

 

Hell, it takes a lot more than just us to educate and raise your children too, but we're not getting much help there either.  Not you specifically of course, but you know that Barky,

 

Wanting a serious education and objective thinking was something most people wanted not all that long ago. To me the rub seems to be that it might take celebrities and social media to help convince kids that education is cool again.

 

Also when that damned Rock 'n Roll came onto the scene, kids started to rebel against their parents ideals and musty ways of thinking. We might need to bring Rock 'n Roll back.

[TheLeviathan]

I think many kids do still value education and facts, but they rank well, well below social media.

 

Which makes them just like their parents, celebrities, and everyone else.  The key is to co-opt social media in productive ways.  (I teach lower elementary and we have a blog and a variety of other online ways we interact)  

 

Oh, and most importantly, adults need to get their *&$% together.  

[nicksaviking]

 

 

Oh, and most importantly, adults need to get their *&$% together.  

 

So did the adults get de-educated? Or did we somehow miss educating a generation or two without realizing it?

 

Because frankly it seems like the first option. For some reason there now seem to be too many people who are just looking for a reason to throw away logic and common sense for superstition and spite even though they were once familiar with logic and common sense.

[Badsmerf]

I think a combination of both. It started at gen x and has not gotten better. I don't necessarily believe we are doing that much worse, rather, we aren't keeping up with other countries.

 

Part of that is not allowing the elite kids to be elite. However, that is beginning to change. My daughter is 8 in second grade. She is smart for her age and classroom activities are easy for her. However, her school uses a program called dreambox which allows her to challenge herself.

 

I think technology played a role somewhat in hindering our development. Now, hopefully we can begin using it to our advantage.

[Mike Sixel]

Republicans have been attacking education and over educated elites for a couple decades. They have ridiculed teachers. They are intentionally trying to make us dumb and controllable. Do people doubt that?

 

As for moving forward.... The march, as long as we don't kill ourselves, is inevitable, but can be slowed or sped up.

[Craig Arko]

 

Republicans have been attacking education and over educated elites for a couple decades.

Oh, a lot longer than that.

 

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/evolut.htm

[TheLeviathan]

 

So did the adults get de-educated? Or did we somehow miss educating a generation or two without realizing it?

 

Because frankly it seems like the first option. For some reason there now seem to be too many people who are just looking for a reason to throw away logic and common sense for superstition and spite even though they were once familiar with logic and common sense.

 

I don't know how coherent this will be, but here goes.  This may sound odd, but I don't think it really is education at all.  I think we have, as a society (perhaps even globally) started to disconnect from each other more and more.  We're also much more selfish and self-centered as a whole.  There was a time when education and parenting were done as a community and now we reject that notion in many places.  Now we isolate ourselves and reject anyone else's advice or input.

 

I mean, we certainly haven't gotten less logical or more superstitious than we were when we were burning witches and doing all kinds of other stupid, crazy crap.  What i think we lack is an effort to find commonality and compromise.  That's something education can help with, but it start at home and in our communities.

 

It's my opinion that people don't ignore logic, facts, or good sense because they don't prize those things, but what they do is they look for the logic, facts, and good sense that agree with them already.  We're all guilty of it to varying degrees, but when you combine a disdain for different opinions with the personal disconnect you get a situation in which people feel they are different and have no common ground and also believe no such common ground can be had regardless of their effort.

 

And that gulf is one that is nearly impossible to bridge.

[Vanimal46]

 

Republicans have been attacking education and over educated elites for a couple decades. They have ridiculed teachers. They are intentionally trying to make us dumb and controllable. Do people doubt that?

As for moving forward.... The march, as long as we don't kill ourselves, is inevitable, but can be slowed or sped up.

No Child Left Behind was a really dumb initiative... I remember being bored out of my mind a lot of times attending public high school. Lessons and topics would be slowed down or repeated if not enough people caught on to the concept. 

That and standardized tests were a huge waste of time. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

No Child Left Behind was a really dumb initiative... I remember being bored out of my mind a lot of times attending public high school. Lessons and topics would be slowed down or repeated if not enough people caught on to the concept. 

That and standardized tests were a huge waste of time. 

 

NCLB is only the natural progression of what has been happening for years.  Obama did much the same.  Don't think this is Republican based, I disagree with Mike there.  I think this is elite vs. non-elite.  More of a class issue.  

 

And standardized tests are not the problem.  We need standards and standardized outcomes.  Otherwise Mississippi and those kinds of states will still think it's ok to teach Creationism and not Evolution.  

 

The problem with the tests are the stakes.  They should be a tool to drive education, not to punish offenders.

[Mike Sixel]

Yes, because Democrats keep cutting education spending.. And publicly ridicule science and education....

[TheLeviathan]

Yes, because Democrats keep cutting education spending.. And publicly ridicule science and education....

Their rhetoric isn't as harsh, but their policies that effect my classroom have been similar for over twenty years and spanning multiple administrations.

 

Science denial exists on the left too. The right is leading the charge, it isn't equal, but these issues aren't one sided.

 

And, from only my personal experience, lefty parents are nothing to applaud either.

[PseudoSABR]

And standardized tests are not the problem.  We need standards and standardized outcomes.  Otherwise Mississippi and those kinds of states will still think it's ok to teach Creationism and not Evolution.  

 

The problem with the tests are the stakes.  They should be a tool to drive education, not to punish offenders.

There's many ways to achieve standardization.  Tests are one the cheapest and, imho, the least effective method.   In general, I think we should be less considered with evaluation and more concerned with the process.  

[TheLeviathan]

The evaluation can, and should be part of informing the process.

[PseudoSABR]

 

The evaluation can, and should be part of informing the process.

Agreed.  But you have to accept that real results in terms of skill-building aren't going to bear themselves in tests over arbitrary time periods.  I say you evaluate the process in terms of resources, curriculum, preparation, pay, qualifications, training, etc. etc. before looking to Billy's results from a timed test.  It's simply far more effective for learning institutions to teach to the test rather than teaching life and work skills which may take time to accumulate into meaningful results. 

 

Standardized tests are about reducing educational goals into easy to manage data, not about meaningfully contributing the process. It feels politically driven as in a "See, I told you the State would hold schools accountable" kind of way.

 

(To be fair, tests are necessary evil of the classroom, and when limited in scope perfectly pragmatic, and even fair when combined with other forms of evaluation.) 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Standardized tests are about reducing educational goals into easy to manage data, not about meaningfully contributing the process. It feels politically driven as in a "See, I told you the State would hold schools accountable" kind of way.

 

(To be fair, tests are necessary evil of the classroom, and when limited in scope perfectly pragmatic, and even fair when combined with other forms of evaluation.) 

 

Well, you sort of just said what I said and you disagreed with,  Take away the stakes - that's the problem.

 

Standardized tests, in conjunction with other forms of evaluation I do day to day and week to week, inform my practice.  They also allow, on a larger scale, for schools to look for things that other comparable districts are doing to inform their process.  If every school does it's own thing and there is no standardized way of evaluating, then we have no data to judge if our process is successful but our own.

 

So, yes, tests do try to simplify a complex set of issues into a data set.  As one tool for evaluation of the process, they are helpful.  None of the things you said are untrue, but they're only part.  There are other parts where that data IS meaningful to the process.

 

I've made this argument many times for others in my own field.  The problem isn't the tests.  We need those in their own way.  Don't throw the baby out with the bath water because they do have value.  The problem is the stakes and the way they approached politically.  But that distinction is important.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Their rhetoric isn't as harsh, but their policies that effect my classroom have been similar for over twenty years and spanning multiple administrations.

Science denial exists on the left too. The right is leading the charge, it isn't equal, but these issues aren't one sided.

And, from only my personal experience, lefty parents are nothing to applaud either.

 

No idea what "lefty parents" have to do with the GOP attack on education....but it is a great distraction.

[Craig Arko]

https://classicalacademicpress.com/what-is-classical-education/

 

The trivium and the quadrivium are still excellent preparation for independent thought.