Article: Arbitration Decisions Looming

[Mike Sixel]

Fine, but you need 7 starters...you jettison Gibson and/or Santiago, then what? And, it only gets worse if you deal ESan......

 

These decisions don't happen in a vacuum. 

[USAFChief]

I would think these decisions were already made when Plouffe--and only Plouffe--was released.

[Mr. Brooks]

I would think these decisions were already made when Plouffe--and only Plouffe--was released.

Though in the end you might be right that everyone else gets tendered, I don't think that means that these decisions were already made.

 

It could just mean that Plouffe was the only obvious one, so they made it right away to give him a head start in FA, and to have his 40 man spot available for Rule V protections.

 

Santiago- they could have wanted more time to see what the interest in Ervin looks like. And also to see what the FA market looks like in terms of years and $.

 

Bullpen guys- might have wanted more time to see what the prices look like, and to evaluate internal options.

 

Escobar is probably an obvious tender, as is Gibson.

 

Edit: Also, and I could be wrong, but I think with players who are a consideration to come back at a cheaper price, it makes more sense to non tender as opposed to releasing.

I'm not sure any of these guys fit that possibility though, perhaps Santiago.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Mr. Brooks

[Jordan1212]

Easy decision let Santiago and Gibson go we can have any of the guys in minors come up and have a 5+ Era and we save 10 million dollars. Gibson has never been good or great Santiago is defiantly not worth 8 million. I just pray I read tomorrow Gibson and Santiago are gone

[Mike Sixel]

 

Easy decision let Santiago and Gibson go we can have any of the guys in minors come up and have a 5+ Era and we save 10 million dollars. Gibson has never been good or great Santiago is defiantly not worth 8 million. I just pray I read tomorrow Gibson and Santiago are gone

 

who comes up?

[Jordan1212]

I know Seth is a Gibson guy but we have seen enough he is just like rest of the Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, and Nick Blackburns.

[Jordan1212]

Gonsalves, meija

[Jordan1212]

Sure funny how Alex Meyer leaves here and pitches better than both of them combined hmmm

[Thrylos]

 

Is Santiago really that much better than Albers or Dean?
 

 

The more important question is whether he is better than Adalberto Mejia, Stephen Gonsalves, or Tyler Jay, because these are the ones he is blocking

[Doomtints]

 

Is Santiago really that much better than Albers or Dean?

 

Yes in capitals with 50 exclamation points. 

[Mr. Brooks]

I know Seth is a Gibson guy but we have seen enough he is just like rest of the Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, and Nick Blackburns.

Baker was a pretty good pitcher. I'd be thrilled if Gibson turned into Scott Baker.

They can't all be aces.

[Dantes929]

 

I know Seth is a Gibson guy but we have seen enough he is just like rest of the Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, and Nick Blackburns.

You mean three of the 5 starters on our 2008 game 163 team, 3 of the 5 starters on our division winning 2009 team and 3 of the 5 starters on our 2010 94 win division winning team?

[Mr. Brooks]

You mean three of the 5 starters on our 2008 game 163 team, 3 of the 5 starters on our division winning 2009 team and 3 of the 5 starters on our 2010 94 win division winning team?

That is an impressive feat by the training staff if they went 3 straight years using only 5 starting pitchers.

[Andrew Luedtke]

In the end I think you tender all of them. It would say a lot of they non tendered either Gibby or Santiago. That would mean they clearly have other plans (which is good) and see something in our roster/farm system the old regime didn't.

 

I have been waiting for Gibson to break out for 4 years but after numerous injuries, I think 2015 is the best we are going to get from him. At best he is a 4/5 starter. 

 

Additionally, I have always been hard on him since the Twins took Gibson 22nd in 2009 while Mike Trout went 3 picks later at 25th overall Let that sink in. 

[kellyvance]

 

As you know, I'm not a believer in Gibson. Never was, even during his 15 season.
But yeah, his tender price is so insanely low for a starting pitcher that I think you have to bring him back.
If he had the $8 million tag, I'd say it's an easy non tender.

 Which is why I am in the non tender to Santiago camp.  Look, we have had too many guys waiting for a spot that we need to know about. Which makes it seem like we cut Ricky and Meyer. I can live with that. Take the 8 million, add another 5-8 and try to get someone capable of being a number 3.

 

I'd tender the other three. Gibbie, because he is still capable of getting it together for a string of games. The relief pitchers will be so so, but they haven't done anything to justify jettisoning them until they show that they suck in April or May. Esco is a valuable Swiss Army Knife. 

[Andrew Luedtke]

 

I would think these decisions were already made when Plouffe--and only Plouffe--was released.

I was thinking the same thing here too. But maybe they were waiting to see if they traded Ervin Santana or Dozier before then? I guess we will find out tomorrow. 

[Doomtints]

 

 Look, we have had too many guys waiting for a spot that we need to know about.

 

They do?  The starters at AAA were mostly a steaming pile of nothing last year.  The AA team had  another group who underperformed.  A+ has a bunch of exciting guys who certainly won't be ready to play for the Twins in 2017. 

The Twins still have to be patient with Berrios.  May has a role now and he needs to prove himself again.  Meyer is gone.  With the other cuts the Twins made, the logjam is pretty much gone.  Let's hope Berrios at least works out. 

 

Be that as it is, yes, they need someone like Santiago, or anybody, who can hold down the fort for another year. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Doomtints

[Mr. Brooks]

They do? The starters at AAA were mostly a steaming pile of nothing last year. The AA team had another group who underperformed. A+ has a bunch of exciting guys who certainly won't be ready to play for the Twins in 2017.

 

The Twins still have to be patient with Berrios. May has a role now and he needs to prove himself again. Meyer is gone. With the other cuts the Twins made, the logjam is pretty much gone. Let's hope Berrios at least works out.

 

Be that as it is, yes, they need someone like Santiago, or anybody, who can hold down the fort for another year.

Mejia should be in the rotation opening day, IMO.

But even then we probably don't need to open any more spots, unless the new guys think Duffey belongs in the rotation.

 

Berrios

May

Gibson

Mejia

Santiago

 

Of course, this assumes they trade Santana and don't find a starter in FA.

If they hold on to Erv or bring in a guy with a guaranteed spot then I could see needing to open a spot.

[David HK]

 

Ugh, Gibson...

You know, back when they started messing around making May a reliever, I was wondering why they didn't do that with Gibby instead--  Still think it's a viable option for him.  Hey, how about we flip-flop those two?  How about it Falvey & co?

[mikelink45]

 

Just about every team's arbitration list is back of the roster guys.
If you are a player every team would want, you get a contract extension before, or shortly into arbitration years.

This may be true, but I prefer the back of many other teams rosters over this mix.   I also remember some memorable players in past arbitration situations and the Twins usually signed them early. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

You mean three of the 5 starters on our 2008 game 163 team, 3 of the 5 starters on our division winning 2009 team and 3 of the 5 starters on our 2010 94 win division winning team?

The same starting rotation that didn't have a single W in either series or game 163....

[KirbyDome89]

 

I really don't understand the hate on Gibson.    In 2014/15 he was a 2.3/2.5 fWAR and 2.0/3.2 bWAR player.    While that isn't great, he's still a solid starter.    He stunk in 2016, but also wasn't healthy.    He will still be cheap, so I see no reason to non-tender him.    In my opinion, he still has some upside and they would be crazy to cut bait on him.

He has been wildly inconsistent during his "good," years and was flat out terrible last year. I'm not saying they should non-tender him, it would be dumb to do that, but he doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  

[KirbyDome89]

"I would personally bring back both because having depth at starting pitcher, quality depth, is a good thing"

 

I think we have very different definitions of quality...

[AlwaysinModeration]

I also assumed that all would be offered arbitration once Plouffe was cut. But isn't the 40-man full, and don't they need to drop one in order to pick up a Rule 5 pick?

 

Also, the Winter Meetings are in DC at the National Harbor, not Houston.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'd rather sink or swim with Mejia or some other young pitcher than tendering Santiago. I don't have a problem tendering him if the FO is confident he can be traded (and I do think he has some value), but I don't want to see him in a Twins uniform next season.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

The more important question is whether he is better than Adalberto Mejia, Stephen Gonsalves, or Tyler Jay, because these are the ones he is blocking

 

I am cautiously optimistic about Mejia. Gonsalves had a great year, but he has pitched only 72 innings in AA. Tyler Jay may be coming along, but a 5.79 ERA and 5.8 SO/9 in AA does not scream "BRING HIM UP".

 

DJ Baxendale (in AAA) had better numbers than either of them in WHIP and SO/9 and he was left open to the Rule 5 draft.

 

If either of them perform at a level that insists they be promoted to MLB it will be up to the FO as to whether they are being 'blocked'. And it may be that a dis-functioning Gibson is more is more likely to be set aside than a career average Hector Santiago.

 

I still believe Santiago should be tendered a contract.

 

** my bad. SSS for Jay in AA. He was excellent in A+ this year.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Oldgoat_MN

[Dantes929]

 

That is an impressive feat by the training staff if they went 3 straight years using only 5 starting pitchers.

I think Duensing had a spot start in one of those years.     Baseball reference shows the top 5 or 6 as a sub category and those 3 were on that list all three of those years.   Slowey and Blackburn were back of the rotation starters but they were very good back of the rotation starters and Baker was a solid tick above middle of rotation category, imo.  

[SadMinnySportsFan]

I would keep all of these guys. Agree with the article-Escobar even if delegated to bench role again could be invaluable if an injury occurs or playing 3B should Sano flounder again. Kitzner was solid, I am fine bringing him back for middle relief, not closer. Pressly showed flashes of brilliance, and can actually strike people out. easy call on him. Gison and Saniago while both were up and down and frustrating all season are no brainers in my opinion. Their salaries aren't huge, they have both been solid in years past, and even if new front office makes a trade/signs someone, worst case they are depth starters. and lets  be honest we are in no position to start getting rid of starters with even OK track records. rotation needs every little help it can get.

[laloesch]

Depending on whether or not we get De Leon and or Santana is traded will likely determine if Santiago and Gibson are tendered contracts.  If the De Leon is not acquired (ahem Dave) and Santana is not traded then i think you tender both no questions asked.

Edited December 8, 2016 by laloesch

[Mr. Brooks]

Depending on whether or not we get De Leon and or Santana is traded will likely determine if Santiago and Gibson are tendered contracts. If the De Leon is not acquired (ahem Dave) and Santana is not traded then i think you tender both no questions asked.

They have both been tendered already.