International pool v draft

[gunnarthor]

Not sure if this is the right place or the other baseball section but Ben Badler of BA - who is probably the best writer on the international baseball market - had some pretty good thoughts on the international pool, the draft and how to better help small market teams.  He opposes a draft and favors increasing all teams draft pool to an equal amount (12m) and possibly increasing penalties for going over that 12m.  

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/increased-bonus-pools-make-sense-international-draft/#LiZM1U3FJO3pMoTT.97

 

"One of the major flaws of the current system is that the bonus pools are too small. In an effort to help owners keep more money by limiting signing bonuses, MLB implemented the bonus pools in 2012, but by making the pools so restrictive, MLB ended up incentivizing teams to go over their pools. ....

 

As one international director pointed out to me, raising the bonus pools might even have the impact of making the top Cuban players more affordable. When Moncada was available in early 2015, the Red Sox and Yankees were already over their 2014-15 bonus pools, while the Cubs, Dodgers and others were already planning to go over theirs later that year when the 2015-16 pools kicked in on July 2. That’s a lot of leverage for Moncada’s camp to use. Or when the Dodgers signed Yadier Alvarez for $16 million on July 2, 2015, the Alvarez camp had the same type of leverage options to them. However, if players no longer have 10 teams over their bonus pool or willing to go over their pool at once, that leverage dissipates. If no teams are willing to go over their bonus pool or only one team is willing to go over, it’s hard to drive the price much past $12 million, though a special talent like Moncada would probably be an exception."

 

I'm not sure his plan is perfect but he does bring up a lot of good points.

[nicksaviking]

I agree that all teams can or could afford the International free agents as the system currently stands, but I disagree if the premise is that all teams can afford them going forward. We've already started to see some crazy budget blowouts and if the system stays as it is, there's no reason to think it won't get even worse.

 

Also, even if a small market team could afford ONE of the top guys, the small market teams can't compete with the sheer volume of top prospects the big markets can scoop up each year. I'm all for a draft structured like the current Rule 4 draft. I'm all for increasing the draft pool and implementing a pool floor as well if the MLBPA wants to ensure thrifty teams don't intentionally avoid tanking these players value purposefully as well.

[biggentleben]

Let's be real here. The reason they're having major kick back in the Dominican and such places right now has nothing to do with the actual draft itself. It's that implementing a draft would clean up what is one of the dirtiest, most underhanded ways, horrible ways that baseball acquires and develops talent.

 

We shriek in horror at the recent Texas Rangers Dominican incident, but those in the game would tell you that is a very, very common occurrence in Latin America, and especially so in the Dominican, and not just with player-on-player. Trainers and coaches have been convicted after years and years of churning out players for major league baseball while also sexually abusing the teenage boys in their stead, and while many times people within the game knew about it, no one did a thing.

 

I couldn't care less how the talent is acquired in Latin America. The system drastically needs to be cleaned up.

[Mike Sixel]

The draft screws the players. Always has, always will. It is all about keeping costs low. Secondaryily.... It allows teams to control assets.... Also bad for players

[TheLeviathan]

Well, it's also about keeping the league competitive and viable.  Making player acquisition about money, even with caps, could put that in jeopardy.  

[biggentleben]

 

The draft screws the players. Always has, always will. It is all about keeping costs low. Secondaryily.... It allows teams to control assets.... Also bad for players

 

If it means that they clean up the dealings in Latin America, I'll take a draft every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The issue with the draft is that at the end of the day, it's basically an anti-trust violation... to get away with that, you need a CBA, and as we see from what is happening so far, the CBA isn't addressing things like this. I'm not sure what the right answer is. This current round was clearly done in a half*** fashion, allowing for any competitive owner to game the system. That's not good for the game. The flip side is that a draft isn't good for the player, nor is the nature of what is actually going on in some of these 3rd world countries. It's really hard to support those types of things knowing what is going on.

 

Unlike the other sports, MLB and the PA seem to get along. I'd hope that they take advantage of it to start fixing some of this stuff (and minor league wages to that list too).  This has the power to make all that printed money go away. Fans aren't going to watch when they know MLB turned a blind eye to sexual assault.

[biggentleben]

A draft in and of itself isn't going to change what's going on in Latin America, but the talks to change to a draft has started those talks, and that's the important part. Right now, that is by far the biggest black eye on the game is the lengths to which they will abuse and mistreat teenagers in order to get talent for their big league club.

[kab21]

Imo it doesn't really matter if there is a draft or the pool system as there is now. The only real complaint now is that there aren't strong enough penalties for exceeding the allotted pool amount. And once you go over by a little then it is in the team's best interests to go over by A LOT.

 

Internationally I prefer a bonus pools as long as they can prevent teams from exceeding them.

[biggentleben]

So,here's a conversation I had with a scout in talking about the Yankees system this weekend. We got onto the subject of the Rangers issue, and he has been scouting in Latin America for nearly two decades after failing as a minor leaguer from Latin America.

 

He told me that growing up in Mexico, he followed two American sports - college football and major league baseball. He was a big fan of Penn State football, because Joe Paterno looked like his grandfather, apparently.

 

In this country, we went ballistic on not just Joe Paterno,  not just Penn State, but also the entire NCAA for not having better oversight into this horrible issue.

 

His comparison: take Penn State, multiply by it by a factor of about 3 million over an additional 30 years compared to the Penn State scandal, and add in that not only was MLB aware of the issues, but actually in some cases provided legal defense for the trainers and coaches who had committed the abuses, and you start to get a BASELINE for the depths of the black eye MLB has in Latin America.

 

It's such that this guy, who is an independent scout not affiliated with any team, pushed his wife to move to the US so his son wouldn't be sought out by the academies.

[Mike Sixel]

Really? Taking money from kids is the same as sexually abusing them? That's your argument?

[gunnarthor]

 

Really? Taking money from kids is the same as sexually abusing them? That's your argument?

I think he is suggesting that they are sexually abusing them.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think he is suggesting that they are sexually abusing them.

 

Ah, well, then blow the **** up.

 

Yikes, but sadly, not surprising. Sometimes I hate people.

[nicksaviking]

There has been evidence of sexual abuse in the Rangers system, but let's remember not to flat out accuse the other teams and MLB of backing this kind of behavior without evidence. This is pretty damning stuff, if it's true consequences including prison time need to be meted out liberally at all levels, but making assumptions based on rumors and innuendo is pretty libelous. At this time any discussions regarding league-wide complicity should probably be framed as more of a hypothetical discussion than as concrete accusations.

[Mike Sixel]

 

There has been evidence of sexual abuse in the Rangers system, but let's remember not to flat out accuse the other teams and MLB of backing this kind of behavior without evidence. This is pretty damning stuff, if it's true consequences including prison time need to be meted out liberally at all levels, but making assumptions based on rumors and innuendo is pretty libelous. At this time any discussions regarding league-wide complicity should probably be framed as more of a hypothetical discussion than as concrete accusations.

 

That's kind of my question/comment......one team does not mean change the system, imo.

 

Now, if it is multiple teams, then, ya, change things. Not sure this fixes that particular problem, but it might.

[biggentleben]

 

That's kind of my question/comment......one team does not mean change the system, imo.

 

Now, if it is multiple teams, then, ya, change things. Not sure this fixes that particular problem, but it might.

 

This is a common behavior on the showcase teams that these guys play on before getting signed, but it hasn't really hit mainstream media before. Jeff Passan was talking with a retired Angels coach who said there was similar stuff going on as hazing at the AA level among Latin players as it's been their nature as they came up, so it does still occur after they're signed at some point.

 

It's not an indictment without fairly overwhelming backing in the people I've talked with that work and/or scout in Latin America, and quite literally, MLB (or an MLB team) has funded the defense funds for coaches that have sexually abused hundreds and possibly thousands of young boys.

 

Once again, I'm not in favor of the draft on a wide economic theory sense, but if it means that MLB's dealings in Latin America are blown up, I'll take the draft every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[gunnarthor]

Looks like the next CBA will not have an international draft.  http://deadspin.com/report-mlb-owners-drop-demand-for-an-international-dra-1789467518

 

[Mike Sixel]

As a rule, KLAW hates drafts, but he has an insider piece up today with his thoughts on how an international draft could be fairish....

 

Unfortunately, I have a new phone, and have no idea what my ESPN login is, so I can't read it yet....

[biggentleben]

Mike, while looking at some stuff on the Mariners system, I found this tid bit from three years ago on the evaluation of the Mariners J2 class. Right in it, Baseball America discusses a trainer getting convicted of sexually assaulting players.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Mike, while looking at some stuff on the Mariners system, I found this tid bit from three years ago on the evaluation of the Mariners J2 class. Right in it, Baseball America discusses a trainer getting convicted of sexually assaulting players.

 

Then he should be in jail. I'm not convinced, are you, that changing the system is going to eliminate this? 

[biggentleben]

 

Then he should be in jail. I'm not convinced, are you, that changing the system is going to eliminate this? 

 

To a draft alone, no, but overhauling how the money is filtered into those areas and making it much more organized could help tremendously. Asian baseball has a very solid set up to follow for Latin America, but the issues are primarily financial for Latin America, and that's what ends up driving the current system, and also driving the corruption.