Adam Brett Walker Waived, Claimed By Milwaukee

[ashbury]

Don't look now, but the Brewskis just DFA'ed Walker:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/brewers-claim-steve-geltz-designate-adam-walker-for-assignment.html

 

LOL. This waiver system needs changed, along the lines of the rule-5 draft, so that if the team that grabs a player decides to play "whoops, we changed our minds" soon afterward, and a third team doesn't grab him for their own 40-man, then the player reverts to the original team for them to designate as they wish. I don't know what the time limit for this should be - until the next Opening Day or when the next World Series ends, whichever is sooner, maybe?

 

I kind of wish the Twins would DFA someone like Boshers (we have 22 pitchers on the 40 man) and take Walker back, given that the Brewers are now at 40 and couldn't take Boshers themselves (maybe somebody else does though). Not that I love Walker that very very much; I hate the waiver-claim system* that very very much.

 

^{* _{Note that I'm very much in favor of some kind of waiver claim process, for the good of players getting a chance when blocked forever in one system. Just not a process that lends itself to annoying penny-ante gamesmanship like this.}**}

 

^{** _{Teams keep doing this to us year after year. Maybe the new regime cleans up the 40-man, so that a year from now this isn't happening anymore. It's one of my several gripes about Terry Ryan's roster management: the accumulation of "too good to cut, not good enough to attract trade interest" players, mainly from taking a path of least resistance.}}

[Vanimal46]

That didn't take long. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

That didn't take long. 

 

One of their guys thought he had 102 strikeouts.  Stupid carrying the one or some such thing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Ashbury -- I am not sure I understand the concern. If you make it easier for teams to remove players from the 40 man roster, more fringe guys are going to get removed from the 40 man roster. Teams have enough advantages over players at that stage in their careers, why would you want to add another?

[diehardtwinsfan]

not that it would be easier, just that players would get a bit more say in it.  The Brewers picked him up and then dropped him a week later hoping they could stash him off the 40 man. In my opinion, he should be a Twin (unless someone puts him on their 40 man) or get to choose where he wants to play. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

If you give the Brewers less incentive to claim him, you give the Twins more incentive to drop him from the 40 man.

 

I guess you could balance that a bit by giving players the option to elect free agency, although I suspect a lot of them would pass. They'd probably rather get claimed even if they know they will probably get DFA'd again in the near future. You get better pay/benefits in the meantime than if you were a FA or off someone's 40 man. And it is easier to stay on a 40 man than to get back on one. Heck, if you get a serious injury while on a 40 man, you go on the 60 day DL. If you're not on a 40 man, you probably get cut.

[ashbury]

Ashbury -- I am not sure I understand the concern.

Again, if a team doesn't have room for an eligible player on the 40-man, and another team wants him, I'm in favor of that team being allowed to grab him. That's the main feature of the waiver system, and I support it. It's good for the players. It's good for competitive balance.

 

Waivers in effect are a team asking all 29 other teams for permission to hang onto the player, absent a spot on their 40-man. It degenerates into petty game playing, when one team or another says no to this request, and then within days asks the same permission of all 29 other teams. Why should the second organization (or the third, or fourth...) get to stash him for later needs, when the first team asked nicely and the request was denied on what turns out to be fairly bogus grounds of 40-man shenanigans?

 

Walker is not going to fare any better as a non-roster Brewer than as a non-roster Twin. Such situations involve being blocked by several players the team thinks more highly of. This part of how waivers operate does not aid the player, nor competitive balance. It's just a quirk.

[Otto von Ballpark]

But if you discourage other teams from making "bogus" (or maybe more accurately, marginal) waiver claims, you're just making it more likely that such players will clear waivers and immediately lose 40-man benefits. And thus you encourage teams to waive guys earlier because there will be less risk of a claim.

 

It is in the marginal player's best interest to stay on a 40-man roster as long as possible, and the current waiver system helps facilitate that. And like you say, it doesn't really matter whether Walker is stuck at AAA with the Twins or with the Brewers, so I think he would prefer the waiver outcome that gave him the best pay/benefits in the meantime (although pay is probably moot in the offseason).

 

At some point, free agency is a good option, but part of the value of these marginal guys is the option of team control, so giving them earlier free agency might depress some of their value/usefulness a bit too.

[Thrylos]

 

 This part of how waivers operate does not aid the player, nor competitive balance. It's just a quirk.

 

It sure aids the player.  Players love waivers because they have a chance to be on a 40-man roster and/or become Free Agents so they get paid more.

 

If you had the ability to take a 40-man roster player with options off the roster and outright him without passing waivers, it would be worse for the player.

 

As far as the competitive balance thing goes:  The only man who thought that dumpster diving can drive competitive balance, is now a former GM.  Who cares about who the 39th and 40th man on the 40-man roster are, as far as being competitive goes...

[Kwak]

Most (major) corporations offer some sort of a severance payment when they terminate an employee--does MLB? This would salve the wound (somewhat) when a player is removed from the 40-man roster.

[Mr. Brooks]

Most (major) corporations offer some sort of a severance payment when they terminate an employee--does MLB? This would salve the wound (somewhat) when a player is removed from the 40-man roster.

The players can negotiate that into the CBA if it's important to them. The league isn't going to give it to them for nothing.

Fringe guys like Walker should be celebrating the extra money they made while on the 40 man, not complaining that they don't get severance once they are off.

[ashbury]

It sure aids the player.  Players love waivers because they have a chance to be on a 40-man roster and/or become Free Agents so they get paid more.

For the umpteenth time, I am all in favor of the spirit of the waiver rule, so that players can be on someone's 40-man roster.

 

I don't see how Walker is aided by being off Milwaukee's 40-man versus being off Minnesota's instead. He didn't get a penny from being on their 40-man for, what, the 15 minutes of this off-season he was on it, did he?

[ashbury]

But if you discourage other teams from making "bogus" (or maybe more accurately, marginal) waiver claims, you're just making it more likely that such players will clear waivers and immediately lose 40-man benefits.

From a macro view, it seems to me it's a zero-sum game among all the minor leaguers in competition with one another. If one player is DFA'ed, it's to make room for someone else. That other person is elated to gain the 40-man benefits. So I don't see that as an argument for the present arrangement of player-grabbing-and-DFAing.

 

It's possible that the present arrangement contributes toward stability, and that this aspect of the CBA was negotiated with that in mind. I'd be surprised, though.

 

And from a fan's perspective, it contributes toward instability instead.

[Halsey Hall]

If I'm Walker I follow Pat Dean and go to Korea and make a bunch of money while still looking at a shot in MLB. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

For the umpteenth time, I am all in favor of the spirit of the waiver rule, so that players can be on someone's 40-man roster.

 

I don't see how Walker is aided by being off Milwaukee's 40-man versus being off Minnesota's instead. He didn't get a penny from being on their 40-man for, what, the 15 minutes of this off-season he was on it, did he?

He was aided by the fact that the Twins kept him on the 40-man roster all season, in part because the waiver rules meant he would certainly be claimed if they tried to remove him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

From a macro view, it seems to me it's a zero-sum game among all the minor leaguers in competition with one another. If one player is DFA'ed, it's to make room for someone else. That other person is elated to gain the 40-man benefits. So I don't see that as an argument for the present arrangement of player-grabbing-and-DFAing.

 

It's possible that the present arrangement contributes toward stability, and that this aspect of the CBA was negotiated with that in mind. I'd be surprised, though.

 

And from a fan's perspective, it contributes toward instability instead.

I think you are exaggerating the effects of this on fans. The vast, vast majority of fans don't even know who these fringe DFA guys are, much less care about where they get their cup of coffee.

 

From a macro view, guys getting claimed off waivers only to get waived again shortly thereafter is almost meaningless. They are marginal players, and these are marginal moves. Pretty much by definition, it's hard to be too concerned about them either way.

 

If anything in the waiver rules needs obvious tweaking, it is the gentlemen's agreement among clubs not to claim players being waived for the purposes of being sold overseas. I understand most clubs like the Twins obviously seek the player's consent to such a sale first, but those players deserve the right to more accurately judge their career prospects stateside first if they want.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If I'm Walker I follow Pat Dean and go to Korea and make a bunch of money while still looking at a shot in MLB.

Walker can't do that by himself, unless he is released. He still has two more seasons of club control before minor league free agency. I suppose he could request a sale overseas and a club could try to accommodate that request.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Most (major) corporations offer some sort of a severance payment when they terminate an employee--does MLB? This would salve the wound (somewhat) when a player is removed from the 40-man roster.

One problem is, these employees aren't being "terminated" -- they are being transferred or demoted. I could see a small stipend for moving expenses where necessary. Better minor league pay might render some of these issues moot too.

[Kwak]

I'm only talking about 1-2 weeks of pay per year of service with that team.

[GMinTraining]

He's not even on the Twins anymore - yet you (ashburyjohn) continue conversation in which you warn me about (Lol).  Fact is: Twins paid Logan Shafer more (2x) in his one month of call up duty than they did rewarding Walker for being on the 40 man roster all season.  ABW got screwed by the Twins in that respect, and what happened with the Brewers was strictly business.  Bottom line is he will get to play next season for someone (minors or majors) and will have to step his game up to show he belongs.

 

Will he get claimed again or get placed on Brewers AAA squad? That is the question for the week?

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Walker can't do that by himself, unless he is released. He still has two more seasons of club control before minor league free agency. I suppose he could request a sale overseas and a club could try to accommodate that request.

Club control? Which club? It would seem to me no one has control of him at this point. If no one claims him he can opt out of his minor league contract, can't he? In other words, he can quit American baseball at any given moment, just like quitting any job. Or am I missing something? (probably)

[Otto von Ballpark]

Club control? Which club? It would seem to me no one has control of him at this point. If no one claims him he can opt out of his minor league contract, can't he? In other words, he can quit American baseball at any given moment, just like quitting any job. Or am I missing something? (probably)

Minor leaguers can't opt for free agency until they have played parts of 7 seasons in the minors, like Pat Dean. Walker still has 2 years to go. Even if he clears waivers right now, he would still be property of Milwaukee. He could always retire from the sport, of course, but Milwaukee would retain his baseball rights.

 

Once a player has enough MLB service, they can refuse an outright assignment off the 40 man roster, but Walker is obviously not at that point yet.

[ashbury]

He was aided by the fact that the Twins kept him on the 40-man roster all season, in part because the waiver rules meant he would certainly be claimed if they tried to remove him.

You focus on the guy who is removed, and not on the fact that someone else gets added. That part of the waiver rule is likely going to be zero-sum no matter how it might be tweaked.

[ashbury]

He's not even on the Twins anymore - yet you (ashburyjohn) continue conversation in which you warn me about (Lol).

I had indeed asked you to end the woofing for Walker, whose virtues and vices as a hitter have been explored to the extremes, now that he's no longer in the organization. This latest turn of events constitutes genuine news, and since the ink was barely dry on his DFA/claiming paperwork, I opted (as just another TD member) to mention it here in the present thread. My little aside, concerning the waiver process, has unfortunately taken on a life of its own, but is relevant to the news.

 

If you really feel the need to discuss moderation policy, please continue it in the appropriate forum (Questions About MinnCentric) rather than in a baseball thread. None of the moderators wishes to wear their Moderator Crown of Wisdom all the time when just trying to talk baseball.

[Thrylos]

 

Club control? Which club? It would seem to me no one has control of him at this point. If no one claims him he can opt out of his minor league contract, can't he? In other words, he can quit American baseball at any given moment, just like quitting any job. Or am I missing something? (probably)

 

Unless someone selects him of waivers, he is outrighted to Milwaukee's AAA team and Milwaukee has control.  If he is selected by a new team, new team has control.

 

Still has options left, so he cannot opt out.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Minor leaguers can't opt for free agency until they have played parts of 7 seasons in the minors, like Pat Dean. Walker still has 2 years to go. Even if he clears waivers right now, he would still be property of Milwaukee. He could always retire from the sport, of course, but Milwaukee would retain his baseball rights.

Once a player has enough MLB service, they can refuse an outright assignment off the 40 man roster, but Walker is obviously not at that point yet.

 

indentured servants for 7 years....yikes

 

[Thrylos]

 

indentured servants for 7 years....yikes

 

That's the price of passage to the majors these days...

[nicksaviking]

 

  Fact is: Twins paid Logan Shafer more (2x) in his one month of call up duty than they did rewarding Walker for being on the 40 man roster all season.  ABW got screwed by the Twins in that respect, and what happened with the Brewers was strictly business.  Bottom line is he will get to play next season for someone (minors or majors) and will have to step his game up to show he belongs.

 

 

Had the same front office been in place that paid Logan Shafer, I'm guessing Walker would still be on with the club. These were decisions made by two different men.

 

I'd also argue that what the Twins did was simply business as they evaluated their roster and decided that Walker wasn't a fit, meanwhile it was Milwaukee that screwed Walker as they almost surely knew he wasn't going to last on their or anyone else's 40 man.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You focus on the guy who is removed, and not on the fact that someone else gets added. That part of the waiver rule is likely going to be zero-sum no matter how it might be tweaked.

So what exactly is the point of your suggested rule change?  That the Twins deserve extended control over marginal prospects like Adam Brett Walker, beyond 3.5 years without using a 40-man roster spot (or beyond 4.5 years after only 1 season on the 40-man)?  (And that's for a college player -- they already get an extra year of control beyond that for high school / international amateurs.)

 

I'm not seeing that as a pressing issue.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'd also argue that what the Twins did was simply business as they evaluated their roster and decided that Walker wasn't a fit, meanwhile it was Milwaukee that screwed Walker as they almost surely knew he wasn't going to last on their or anyone else's 40 man.

I'm not sure Milwaukee rises to the level of "screwing" -- they had an open spot on their 40-man, and claimed a guy who unfortunately was still #40 on their depth chart, so he was the first to get dropped when someone better came along.

 

As it came in the offseason, it didn't materially affect Walker at all, except perhaps he had to investigate where the Brewers offseason training facilities are, and maybe look ahead to his April 2017 living arrangements in the Brewers AAA town?  It would be a little trickier for Walker in the regular season, but of course he would be compensated a bit with increased pay while with the Brewers and while in DFA limbo, as opposed to being outrighted by the Twins.