Astros Yankees trade

[gunnarthor]

Yankees traded Brian McCann and his 2yr/34m + potential 15m vesting option to the Astros for a couple young pitchers.  

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/astros-acquire-brian-mccann.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

 

Yankees are also giving the Astros about 6m to cover some of the contract.  The arms they are getting back are both far away and pretty raw but have pretty good stuff.  

 

"While financial considerations surely played a role in the swap, the Yankees were no doubt intrigued by the two player they received. Abreu is the more highly regarded of the two; as J.J. Cooper of Baseball America explains, he throws a live fastball that occasionally nears the triple-digits. With a four-pitch arsenal, he perhaps has a chance to stick as a starter. Still, he only just turned 21 and struggled with his command last year at the Class A and High-A levels.

Guzman, meanwhile, has even more velocity, with his heater ticking up to 102-103 mph at times. Cooper notes, though, that he’s more effective when he’s operating at a slightly lower velocity (in his case, the upper-nineties). While the long-term outlook suggests that Guzman will end up in the pen, he is said to have a promising slider and also a change-up that’s in the works. The 20-year-old has yet to move past Rookie ball, but showed big strikeout ability (12.2 K/9) in his time in the Gulf Coast and Appalachian leagues last year."

[BK432]

A couple of lottery tickets, essentially. Seems like an odd return for the Yankees - I would have thought they could do better.

[biggentleben]

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/24054-2016-2017-mlb-off-season-thread/

[Squirrel]

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/24054-2016-2017-mlb-off-season-thread/

Ben ... I'm going to say this again, as I do every year ... it's fine if you want to have a single thread for all transactions that happen in the off-season, but it is unreasonable to expect every discussion on these transactions to also happen in that thread. If someone wants to post a transaction separately for a separate discussion, that is also fine, so please stop trying to filter everything into one thread. That's why we have this forum ... for everything else to be discussed there, not limited to one, single thread.

[biggentleben]

 

Ben ... I'm going to say this again, as I do every year ... it's fine if you want to have a single thread for all transactions that happen in the off-season, but it is unreasonable to expect every discussion on these transactions to also happen in that thread. If someone wants to post a transaction separately for a separate discussion, that is also fine, so please stop trying to filter everything into one thread. That's why we have this forum ... for everything else to be discussed there, not limited to one, single thread.

 

And I can suggest early in the offseason as I do every year, that folks attempt to discuss non-Twins related stuff in one spot so as to participate in the general discussion going on already rather than expecting others to participate in their specific discussion. It's certainly not disturbing anyone by any means for me to post that link.

[Squirrel]

 

And I can suggest early in the offseason as I do every year, that folks attempt to discuss non-Twins related stuff in one spot so as to participate in the general discussion going on already rather than expecting others to participate in their specific discussion. It's certainly not disturbing anyone by any means for me to post that link.

If that is your goal then this wasn't the thread to direct, as this trade perhaps opens up things for the Twins. And as I've said before there is NO WAY to not have Twins things come up on a TWINS website, even in the 'other baseball' forum. It's going to happen no matter how much you try to control it otherwise. Now please, enough.

[biggentleben]

So then, why not post it on the Twins board if it's Twins related??

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I generally like having one thread to catch minor news, I feel this trade is big enough to warrant its own thread. Given how the Twins so badly need a catcher, McCann going to the Astros is a moderately big deal.

 

There is no concrete rule about this, just go with the flow.

[PseudoSABR]

This thread is too meta.  Shouldn't threads about threads have their own thread?   (kidding)

[Craig Arko]

This thread it too meta.  Shouldn't threads about threads have their own thread?   (kidding)

The inexorable spread of Mad Cow continues...

[spinowner]

 

This thread is too meta.  Shouldn't threads about threads have their own thread?   (kidding)

And maybe the site administrator should create a separate forum for threads about threads.

[ashbury]

And maybe the site administrator should create a separate forum for threads about threads.

Assuming this is deadpan humor, I'm still going to spoil the joke through explanation, by directing (to here) those who still want to pursue this tangent but seem to have forgotten:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/forum/13-questions-about-minncentric/

 

Discussion of moderator action/policy is always open, just not in baseball threads.

[gunnarthor]

As to the second issue, I just personally don't like one big thread to discuss everything because I want to see if/what other people wrote before I comment and I don't want to read through tons of pages on other stuff that isn't related to that topic.

 

Others may feel different - I know Mike has a thread for all national publications on the Twins which I also ignore.  

[DaveW]

Good trade for both teams tbh

[kab21]

Would you?

 

Take Castro for 3/24 in FA

 

or 

 

Trade 2 good but not great prospects for McCann and pay him 2/24 (is this where the money ended up?)

 

I am not against the McCann move but I think Castro will be viewed as the better choice. The Astros clearly think differently.

[TheLeviathan]

I take Castro in a heart beat.  Not even a consideration.

[gunnarthor]

 

Would you?

 

Take Castro for 3/24 in FA

 

or 

 

Trade 2 good but not great prospects for McCann and pay him 2/24 (is this where the money ended up?)

 

I am not against the McCann move but I think Castro will be viewed as the better choice. The Astros clearly think differently.

If it's to play catcher, then I'd take Castro because I'm not convinced McCann will be able to stay behind the plate.  He'll be 33 next year.  He's been pretty durable and frankly I think he's been a bit under rated these years because he was never quite as good as Mauer, Posey and, for a few years, Molina.  But he has legit power that might play up a bit in that joke stadium Houston has.  But, yeah, I agree with Levi and would rather have Castro, esp since I don't have to give up prospects for him.

[kab21]

 

I take Castro in a heart beat.  Not even a consideration.

That is my view also but the Astros went in the completely opposite direction.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That is my view also but the Astros went in the completely opposite direction.

 

How much of that is due to wanting some "veteran leadership" and that sort of thing?  I feel like, in the aftermath of the trade, there was a lot of that kind of talk.

 

Like gunnathor, I just don't see McCann as a viable catcher much longer.  So a younger, cheaper player that doesn't cost you prospects seems like an easy choice to me.

[Mike Sixel]

 

That is my view also but the Astros went in the completely opposite direction.

 

Are we sure McCann will catch A LOT? 

 

Plus, the Twins aren't in win now mode at all, why would you trade prospects for a DH/part time catcher?

[Shaitan]

Gattis is Houston's other catcher so, yes, McCann will catch a lot unless they make another move.

[kab21]

 

Are we sure McCann will catch A LOT? 

 

Plus, the Twins aren't in win now mode at all, why would you trade prospects for a DH/part time catcher?

I doubt Gattis will catch much so yeah McCann will be catching.

How about looking at this in a vacuum of where a team is at? I can't understand taking McCann in any situation (contracts and traded prospects remain the same) over Castro if they play 100+ games at catcher. The Astros chose differently though. I asked because I felt that I was missing something.

[gunnarthor]

 

I doubt Gattis will catch much so yeah McCann will be catching.

How about looking at this in a vacuum of where a team is at? I can't understand taking McCann in any situation (contracts and traded prospects remain the same) over Castro if they play 100+ games at catcher. The Astros chose differently though. I asked because I felt that I was missing something.

Some of this might just be that you tend to sour on players you think under achieved.  Houston saw Castro break out a few years ago after having been a highly regarded prospect and he never even came close to that 2013 season again.  So the things he was good at - defense - is something that isn't in the stat sheet so maybe they are only seeing the offensive upside without really considering the defensive downside.  

 

Or, maybe they think pitch framing isn't worth the cost.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I doubt Gattis will catch much so yeah McCann will be catching.

How about looking at this in a vacuum of where a team is at? I can't understand taking McCann in any situation (contracts and traded prospects remain the same) over Castro if they play 100+ games at catcher. The Astros chose differently though. I asked because I felt that I was missing something.

 

Their post-trade comments make it very clear they will be playing him at catcher.  

 

So, yeah, I don't see why they did this either.

[nicksaviking]

 

Some of this might just be that you tend to sour on players you think under achieved.  Houston saw Castro break out a few years ago after having been a highly regarded prospect and he never even came close to that 2013 season again.  So the things he was good at - defense - is something that isn't in the stat sheet so maybe they are only seeing the offensive upside without really considering the defensive downside.  

 

Or, maybe they think pitch framing isn't worth the cost.

 

I agree that there is some team/fan perspective distortion quite often.

 

Look at how many of us are ready to ditch Kyle Gibson. However if Gibson underachieved for another club and he was cheaply available right now, most of us would probably welcome the chance to buy low on a guy with his pedigree.

[biggentleben]

Gattis also got extremely good reviews on his catching this season after working hard with Astros brass to improve on his pitch calling, blocking, and pitcher management. His framing doesn't grade well, but is visibly improved, and he's got a big arm, and with his footwork taking a big step forward in 2016, if he took a similar footwork step forward in 2017, he'd be an above-average defensive catcher.

 

I just look at it and laugh to think of McCann and Gattis paired behind the plate. I swear this has been tried before somewhere....