Article: A Look At The Free Agent Catcher Market

[tobi0040]

Is anyone else optimistic about platooning suggestions that actually have a chance to be implemented?

 

If we do go a one or two year route on a veteran I would like to see it accompanied with a move to acquire a catcher in the minors.  Their has to be a team out there who has depth and would want one of our million prospects.  I am not comfortable with handing Turner/Garver the reins.

[Cory Engelhardt]

 

Is anyone else optimistic about platooning suggestions that actually have a chance to be implemented?

 

If we do go a one or two year route on a veteran I would like to see it accompanied with a move to acquire a catcher in the minors.  Their has to be a team out there who has depth and would want one of our million prospects.  I am not comfortable with handing Turner/Garver the reins.

 

That is what will be fun about this offseason. All of us as fans are going in with the hope of upgrading the team. I personally want Castro as I think he will help the pitching staff while also producing a little bit on the offensive side. That said, who knows what direction this front office is going to go. They may look at Murphy and Garver and Turner and everyone else in our current stable of catching prospects and say that none of them are cut out to be in the big leagues, so they could then go out and acquire another catcher to pair with Castro. I don't know what they will do, and that's why I am excited to see what unfolds.

[DocBauer]

I love Castro being brought on board, with some trepidation he could end up blocking Garver at this point who appears close to being ready. Still don't have a total handle on Garver's full defensive acumen, but never heard anything negative, he can sure throw, and he looks to be a better than average hitter for the position with some power.

 

If Castro's price tag gets too high, or too long term, or simply doesn't want to sign with the Twins, (I'm betting he has more than a couple suitors), I still like Avila to play solid defense, provide experience, and hopefully hit a little while sharing time with Garver.

[Mr. Brooks]

I love Castro being brought on board, with some trepidation he could end up blocking Garver at this point who appears close to being ready. Still don't have a total handle on Garver's full defensive acumen, but never heard anything negative, he can sure throw, and he looks to be a better than average hitter for the position with some power.

 

If Castro's price tag gets too high, or too long term, or simply doesn't want to sign with the Twins, (I'm betting he has more than a couple suitors), I still like Avila to play solid defense, provide experience, and hopefully hit a little while sharing time with Garver.

I think we might have unrealistic expectations of Garver at this point.

If he projected as a catcher with good defense and an above average bat, wouldn't be be a top 100 prospect?

That doesn't mean he can't, of course, many prospects go on to outperform their projections, but I don't think he's a guy we should worry about blocking. He's not a Joe Mauer, or even Wilson Ramos level prospect.

[Thrylos]

 

I think we might have unrealistic expectations of Garver at this point.
If he projected as a catcher with good defense and an above average bat, wouldn't be be a top 100 prospect?
That doesn't mean he can't, of course, many prospects go on to outperform their projections, but I don't think he's a guy we should worry about blocking. He's not a Joe Mauer, or even Wilson Ramos level prospect.

 

Check out how he is doing in AFL and compare it to how the BA #34 overall prospect is doing?

 

The thing is that most national publications are biased against later round picks, and against players that they have not seen playing much.  I think that Garver should be a top 100 prospect.  He is at level of Jorge Alfaro, if not better.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Thrylos

[Mr. Brooks]

Check out how he is doing in AFL and compare it to how the BA #34 overall prospect is doing?

 

The thing is that most national publications are biased against later round picks, and against players that they have not seen playing much. I think that Garver should be a top 100 prospect. He is at level of Jorge Alfaro, if not better.

I agree there can be a bias, but using the tiny sample of AFL stats tells us absolutely nothing.

[DocBauer]

I agree there can be a bias, but using the tiny sample of AFL stats tells us absolutely nothing.

Can't disagree with either you or Thrylos, though I don't know being ranked in the top 100 is that big of a deal in the long term. It's a little like college football recruiting and giving high school players star rankings. Not showing big time power, sharing time with Turner, and the one so-so season sandwiched between two good seasons may hold back his rankings.

 

And maybe I'm just optomistic. Lol But I really do have a good feeling about the guy.

[Mr. Brooks]

Can't disagree with either you or Thrylos, though I don't know being ranked in the top 100 is that big of a deal in the long term. It's a little like college football recruiting and giving high school players star rankings. Not showing big time power, sharing time with Turner, and the one so-so season sandwiched between two good seasons may hold back his rankings.

 

And maybe I'm just optomistic. Lol But I really do have a good feeling about the guy.

Yeah I agree to a degree about the rankings.

I've said in some of the trade Dozier and/or Erv threads that I think rankings are overrated.

But, there is a reason why Alabama and Ohio State, etc. are always in the national title conversation, and they aren't passing on 4 or 5 star recruits.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Check out how he is doing in AFL and compare it to how the BA #34 overall prospect is doing?

 

The thing is that most national publications are biased against later round picks, and against players that they have not seen playing much.  I think that Garver should be a top 100 prospect.  He is at level of Jorge Alfaro, if not better.

Thrylos, agree with you that Garver is underrated (perhaps by a lot), but he's 2 years older than Alfaro, and I think Alfaro's defense is supposed to be better.

[Vanimal46]

For all of the Jason Castro fans, per Mike Berardino on Twitter:

#MNTwins and Jason Castro's rep had "agreed to reconvene" next week, I'm told. Target Field meetings w/senior scouts should start Mon/Tue.

And per MLB Trade Rumors:

The Twins did meet with Castro’s representation during the GM Meetings this week, tweets Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press (via Twitter), though the two sides only discussed “general needs and wants” at the time.

Sounds like they had a good first date. Will Falvey wait three days to call Castro and ask him out again?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

For all of the Jason Castro fans, per Mike Berardino on Twitter:

 

#MNTwins and Jason Castro's rep had "agreed to reconvene" next week, I'm told. Target Field meetings w/senior scouts should start Mon/Tue.

 

And per MLB Trade Rumors:

 

The Twins did meet with Castro’s representation during the GM Meetings this week, tweets Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press (via Twitter), though the two sides only discussed “general needs and wants” at the time.

 

Sounds like they had a good first date. Will Falvey wait three days to call Castro and ask him out again?

also according to "the aggregator not to be quoted" Castro has three offers on the table. I wonder how much longer this will string out...

[USAFChief]

also according to "the aggregator not to be quoted" Castro has three offers on the table. I wonder how much longer this will string out...

That story was reported by Jeff Passan, not "the aggregator not to be quoted."

 

MLBTradeRumors simply published Passan's report...and attributed the report to Passan.

 

In fairness to actual persons who do actual reporting, we should all try to do the same.

[jorgenswest]

Cleveland was a defense first organization at catcher. They were horrible offensively, Gomes was hurt and they still had no interest in Suzuki. They stuck with Perez who can't hit but does everything well defensively.

 

If Falvey brings that same model, I can't see him giving the catcher job to Mitch Garver. It could be that Garver is a very good pitch framer and game caller. That has never been his reputation though. Turner has had a reputation of a good defensive catcher. I think both will start in AAA and their defense will be under the microscope with the better defender getting the nod when needed.

[Mr. Brooks]

Cleveland was a defense first organization at catcher. They were horrible offensively, Gomes was hurt and they still had no interest in Suzuki. They stuck with Perez who can't hit but does everything well defensively.

 

If Falvey brings that same model, I can't see him giving the catcher job to Mitch Garver. It could be that Garver is a very good pitch framer and game caller. That has never been his reputation though. Turner has had a reputation of a good defensive catcher. I think both will start in AAA and their defense will be under the microscope with the better defender getting the nod when needed.

Can I ask what you are using to base your opinion of Garver on?

It's my understanding that he's pretty solid defensively.

[jorgenswest]

He doesn't make the top team prospect list in BBA and isn't among the hundreds in the minor league baseball analyst. It isn't his bat. Antony one of improvement on his radio show this summer. Most recent comment came from Sickels and the fall league this year.

 

"Garver has made considerable progress refining his defense, throwing out 50% of his runners this year"

 

That is good news but they don't make those kinds of comments about good defenders. He could have said he is a good receiver or even average receiver but went with improved. It also sounds as if the improvement is in the throwing game. I think it will be the receiving and game calling skills that will be valued by Falvey. I expect he will seek an above average receiver and not worry about the bat at catcher. Garver will have an opportunity to show he can defend at that level in AAA. If isn't at least an average receiver, he will probably go the way of Josmil Pinto.

 

if Garver is a good receiver, Falvey will recognize it and he will play.

[Mr. Brooks]

He doesn't make the top team prospect list in BBA and isn't among the hundreds in the minor league baseball analyst. It isn't his bat. Antony one of improvement on his radio show this summer. Most recent comment came from Sickels and the fall league this year.

 

"Garver has made considerable progress refining his defense, throwing out 50% of his runners this year"

 

That is good news but they don't make those kinds of comments about good defenders. He could have said he is a good receiver or even average receiver but went with improved. It also sounds as if the improvement is in the throwing game. I think it will be the receiving and game calling skills that will be valued by Falvey. I expect he will seek an above average receiver and not worry about the bat at catcher. Garver will have an opportunity to show he can defend at that level in AAA. If isn't at least an average receiver, he will probably go the way of Josmil Pinto.

 

if Garver is a good receiver, Falvey will recognize it and he will play.

There are people here who can answer pretty definitively, and I hope we hear from them, but I think Garver has already surpassed average as a receiver.

 

I don't know why you assume they will want the absolute best defensive catcher with zero regard for a bat.

You should always look at the balance between bat and defense.

 

They (Cleveland) did try to get a catcher at the deadline, and couldn't make a deal.

As for not wanting Suzuki. One, none of us know if they made an offer. And two, Suzuki might have been the worst defensive catcher since LeCroy last year, so not wanting Suzuki doesn't automatically mean they won't accept anything less than A+ defensively. It could just mean that they at least want C+ or something defensively.

 

Also, after last year, I don't think Turner is even so much as an afterthought at this point.

He won't be added to the 40 man, and Seth didn't even have him in his top 30 prospects.

Turner is not an option next year. If your theory is get the best defender regardless of any minimum standard with the bat, then I think they would just bring Butera in on a 1 year deal.

[Mike Sixel]

That story was reported by Jeff Passan, not "the aggregator not to be quoted."

 

MLBTradeRumors simply published Passan's report...and attributed the report to Passan.

 

In fairness to actual persons who do actual reporting, we should all try to do the same.

I thought a moderator told us to stop with this....

[jorgenswest]

There are people here who can answer pretty definitively, and I hope we hear from them, but I think Garver has already surpassed average as a receiver.

I don't know why you assume they will want the absolute best defensive catcher with zero regard for a bat.

You should always look at the balance between bat and defense.

They (Cleveland) did try to get a catcher at the deadline, and couldn't make a deal.

As for not wanting Suzuki. One, none of us know if they made an offer. And two, Suzuki might have been the worst defensive catcher since LeCroy last year, so not wanting Suzuki doesn't automatically mean they won't accept anything less than A+ defensively. It could just mean that they at least want C+ or something defensively.

Also, after last year, I don't think Turner is even so much as an afterthought at this point.

He won't be added to the 40 man, and Seth didn't even have him in his top 30 prospects.

Turner is not an option next year. If your theory is get the best defender regardless of any minimum standard with the bat, then I think they would just bring Butera in on a 1 year deal.

Time will tell. I hope you are right.

[terrydactyls]

On a long drive today, I listened to the MLB station on Sirius Radio. According to their "experts," Ramos would like to be traded to the American League because he thinks he is finished as catcher. And the Nationals are not interested in Castro because he can't hit and his defense is mediocre. Maybe the Twins need to look elsewhere for catching help. They also mentioned that the Dodgers are looking for help at 2nd base and have plenty in the minors to offer. They are also looking for a backend of the order innings eater. So maybe Dozier and Ervin Santana get shipped west for a bunch of prospects.

[Rosterman]

Drew Butera. And make sure you offer an option pick-up, just in case he shines!

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

On a long drive today, I listened to the MLB station on Sirius Radio. According to their "experts," Ramos would like to be traded to the American League because he thinks he is finished as catcher. And the Nationals are not interested in Castro because he can't hit and his defense is mediocre. Maybe the Twins need to look elsewhere for catching help. They also mentioned that the Dodgers are looking for help at 2nd base and have plenty in the minors to offer. They are also looking for a backend of the order innings eater. So maybe Dozier and Ervin Santana get shipped west for a bunch of prospects.

 

Castro's defense is mediocre? That's not my understanding....

[Linus]

Nice piece about Garver in the PP. Sounds like a motivated guy that really wants it

[terrydactyls]

 

Castro's defense is mediocre? That's not my understanding....

 

I've never seen him play but that's what the Nationals were saying according to the MLB guys.  While listening to them discuss Castro, I really got a bad feeling about trying to sign him.

[Mr. Brooks]

I've never seen him play but that's what the Nationals were saying according to the MLB guys. While listening to them discuss Castro, I really got a bad feeling about trying to sign him.

Who were the guys discussing him?

Some of the old school guys think pitch framing is a hoax, so that might explain that.

If you take away his elite pitch framing, then he probably is a mediocre defender.

However, I consider pitch framing to be the most important aspect to catching, followed by shutting down the run game, so in my eyes, I'd consider Castro very good defensively.

[terrydactyls]

Who were the guys discussing him?

Some of the old school guys think pitch framing is a hoax, so that might explain that.

I think it was Power Alley with Jim Duquette and Mike Ferrin. I don't listen often enough to know their biases, but I would have more trust in what they hear from around major league baseball than in what us amateur GMs opine. Just reporting what I heard here, Mr. Brooks, not proclaiming dogma.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think it was Power Alley with Jim Duquette and Mike Ferrin. I don't listen often enough to know their biases, but I would have more trust in what they hear from around major league baseball than in what us amateur GMs opine. Just reporting what I heard here, Mr. Brooks, not proclaiming dogma.

 

I don't trust us either, hence I look at the data, and the pitch framing data seems pretty clear.

[Shaitan]

 

Is anyone else optimistic about platooning suggestions that actually have a chance to be implemented?

 

If we do go a one or two year route on a veteran I would like to see it accompanied with a move to acquire a catcher in the minors.  Their has to be a team out there who has depth and would want one of our million prospects.  I am not comfortable with handing Turner/Garver the reins.

 

If they platoon at any position, it seems like C is the easiest unless there's a pitcher-catcher bond to mess with.

[terrydactyls]

Now I just read in MLB rumors in Bleacher Report that Buster Olney says Castro excels at pitch framing. I think I'll just take a nap and wait for something to actually happen.