Article: A Look At The Free Agent Catcher Market

[Cory Engelhardt]

 

Which of you is going to spend $9 million a year on Castro for a 2 - 3 year contract.  Mlbtraderumors pegs him at 2/$15 and I feel that may be low considering the number of teams that need a good catcher who hits a little.  Do not feel like this is the correct line and his agents could only use the Twins to drive up the price as an in demand FA is not likely to play here with little chance to make the playoffs.

 

The Twins want to find a starting catcher who can help their pitching staff and help be at least average defensively. They don't currently have that guy on the roster. We aren't looking at adding Johnny Bench through free agency, but getting a guy who can help the pitching staff grow and develop, while costing not all that much in terms of current day free agency is a no brainer.

Just punting free agency and hoping for the best doesn't always solve everything. I'm not saying Jason Castro is a savior, but I absolutely believe having Castro catch 110 games next year will help in terms of runs allowed and pitcher ERA. Why is that a bad thing?

And I would absolutely give Castro a fair contract compared to what others receive in free agency. If that is 12 million or 14 million (or more) per year, whatever it is, the Twins and major league baseball absolutely have the resources to acquire a player that will help their team both in 2017 and for the future. Hopefully he would be able to teach other catchers in the system something about pitch framing as well.

[beckmt]

 

sounds like you are in full rebuild mode.....and, if you are punting next year, you are saying they have a 3 year window, good luck with that all working out.

what I am saying is that half measures are what the Twins have been doing the last several years.  Also the Wild, just good enough to compete not good enough to win it all.  I am endorsing a path that has a chance of winning it all.  Twins have enough talent that while painful could punt the second round draft pick.  Do not see Twins developing enough pitching internally to get to the next level(hope they not be realistic about the chances).  You have to trade or buy pitching to compete and how many of the Twins current pitchers could you see on a pennant winning team.  My estimate at the current time is 2 maybe 3.  That leaves 9 -10 spots to fill and hope maybe half will be filled internally.  That leaves about 5 to sign or trade for. That is a big task, so we need to get going.

[Mike Sixel]

 

what I am saying is that half measures are what the Twins have been doing the last several years.  Also the Wild, just good enough to compete not good enough to win it all.  I am endorsing a path that has a chance of winning it all.  Twins have enough talent that while painful could punt the second round draft pick.  Do not see Twins developing enough pitching internally to get to the next level(hope they not be realistic about the chances).  You have to trade or buy pitching to compete and how many of the Twins current pitchers could you see on a pennant winning team.  My estimate at the current time is 2 maybe 3.  That leaves 9 -10 spots to fill and hope maybe half will be filled internally.  That leaves about 5 to sign or trade for. That is a big task, so we need to get going.

 

And how does signing Castro hurt that, assuming he stays a very good defensive catcher? that's what we are talking about...right?

[TheLeviathan]

I believe we're still in full blown rebuild, but having a catcher that is actually good at catching will actually help our young pitchers.  And if he's really good and a young guy develops, we can always trad.e

[Nick Nelson]

 

MLBTradeRumors reports that were going to talk to Castro's representatives today! They predicted he'd get two years for $15MM. from the White Sox. \m/

I have to call this out because it irks me when I see it. MLB Trade Rumors didn't report anything, they are an aggregator. Let's give credit to the guy who actually did the reporting work, Mike Berardino. 

[beckmt]

 

And how does signing Castro hurt that, assuming he stays a very good defensive catcher? that's what we are talking about...right?

Because he becomes a block to finding out what you have in either Garver or Murphy.  Both need to play next year with the Twins.  If neither work out then you look for a catcher.  I much rather put dollar assets into pitching that is both younger and with several years of control.  The Twins hitting could be ready to compete by 2018, but pitching looks like a much longer track.  My moves would be to bring both at the same time.

Twins payroll at the end of 2018 will be very low, so putting major assets into the staff should be a priority, not into a 2 or 3 year aging catcher.

[HitInAPinch]

Just one man's opinion.....

 

Overall, I'm not a believer is this whole "blocking" thing.  If the "up and comer" can't get playing time due to someone else "blocking" them, I'd have to question the skills of that "up and comer". 

[Cory Engelhardt]

 

Because he becomes a block to finding out what you have in either Garver or Murphy.  Both need to play next year with the Twins.  If neither work out then you look for a catcher.  I much rather put dollar assets into pitching that is both younger and with several years of control.  The Twins hitting could be ready to compete by 2018, but pitching looks like a much longer track.  My moves would be to bring both at the same time.

Twins payroll at the end of 2018 will be very low, so putting major assets into the staff should be a priority, not into a 2 or 3 year aging catcher.

 

They can sign Castro and not break the bank doing it, and also if Garver or Murphy play and earn time, then they will play. The coaches have seen both of them and scouted both of them for years. If they are not ready, they are not ready. Garver isn't going to magically become Johnny Bench by playing in the pros when he hasn't shown enough in the minors to earn a call-up yet.

Plus, you realize, they can spend 20-30 million on Castro, and still not even get close to the amount of resources they have to pursue pitching in every/all avenues. Pursuing a major league caliber catcher (which they don't currently have) doesn't mean they can't also pursue pitching.

[USAFChief]

Castro. If not, Weiters.

 

This team needs help behind the plate, and I don't think it exists internally.

[KirbyDome89]

 

what I am saying is that half measures are what the Twins have been doing the last several years.  Also the Wild, just good enough to compete not good enough to win it all.  I am endorsing a path that has a chance of winning it all.  Twins have enough talent that while painful could punt the second round draft pick.  Do not see Twins developing enough pitching internally to get to the next level(hope they not be realistic about the chances).  You have to trade or buy pitching to compete and how many of the Twins current pitchers could you see on a pennant winning team.  My estimate at the current time is 2 maybe 3.  That leaves 9 -10 spots to fill and hope maybe half will be filled internally.  That leaves about 5 to sign or trade for. That is a big task, so we need to get going.

I completely agree with the half measure sentiment, but I don't think the catching situation falls into that category. I have zero confidence that Murphy will be anything other than a fringe backup at this point, and Garver hasn't seen any time with the Twins. If he can force his way into a platoon in the lineup then great, but signing an everyday FA catcher would be huge for this team. Filling the need at catcher doesn't preclude the Twins from finding help for the pitching staff.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I have to call this out because it irks me when I see it. MLB Trade Rumors didn't report anything, they are an aggregator. Let's give credit to the guy who actually did the reporting work, Mike Berardino. 

 

yes, we should all spend time trying to properly source items. It's our obligation, or something. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because he becomes a block to finding out what you have in either Garver or Murphy.  Both need to play next year with the Twins.  If neither work out then you look for a catcher.  I much rather put dollar assets into pitching that is both younger and with several years of control.  The Twins hitting could be ready to compete by 2018, but pitching looks like a much longer track.  My moves would be to bring both at the same time.

Twins payroll at the end of 2018 will be very low, so putting major assets into the staff should be a priority, not into a 2 or 3 year aging catcher.

 

Garver has, what, 20 games in AAA? And less than a full year in AA?

 

That's the plan, one guy that can maybe hit but isn't much defensively, and a guy that was in AA last year? 

[Nick Nelson]

 

yes, we should all spend time trying to properly source items. It's our obligation, or something. 

Sarcasm? If so it seems unwarranted. I don't mean to scold but I certainly think we should give due credit to the guys who are out there grinding to get the info that feeds this and all other fan sites. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sarcasm? If so it seems unwarranted. I don't mean to scold but I certainly think we should give due credit to the guys who are out there grinding to get the info that feeds this and all other fan sites. 

 

so, no more links to mlbtraderumors unless I say the original source? same with every other link?

[Nick Nelson]

 

so, no more links to mlbtraderumors unless I say the original source? same with every other link?

It's not a rule as much as a courtesy. You can link to MLB Trade Rumors as a source. I just took issue with the phrase "MLB Trade Rumors reports", and I know dang well Mr. Berardino would too.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's not a rule as much as a courtesy. You can link to MLB Trade Rumors as a source. I just took issue with the phrase "MLB Trade Rumors reports", and I know dang well Mr. Berardino would too.  

 

fair, but asking people to worry about this seems, um, unlikely to be a priority for them.

[ashbury]

fair, but asking people to worry about this seems, um, unlikely to be a priority for them.

Moderator's suggestion: take this tangent to the About MinnCentric forum if it needs to be explored further.

[Thrylos]

 

Castro will be a hot property and will go where he has an opportunity to win which excludes the Twins.  What about some DEFENSIVE  metrics on the remaining MLB free agent catchers: Avila, Ellis, Hanigan, Hundley, Mathis and Soto?  Maybe a reunion with Drew?  Otherwise, what is available through minor league free agency and the Rule 5 Draft?

 

Defensive metrics here.   It really is Castro or bust as far as FAs go.  Otherwise not worth it.  I do understand that having a good framer catching a young pitching staff might help.  Intriguing name on that defensive metrics list:  Travis d' Arnaud.  If I were the Twins, I'd try to see what can make it happen, in a package probably with one of the Mets' pitchers...

[nicksaviking]

With how popular Castro is here, the dearth of free agents to spend money on and the Twins annual unlucky timing in terms of need vs supply, I'm guessing Castro is going to command more money and/or years than we expect.

 

Not that the Twins won't be or shouldn't be the team to bite.

 

Ha, it is fun to picture the Twins fans who only know back-of-the-baseball-card stats seeing his career .232 avg and flipping out about signing him to a multi-year deal.

[Nick Nelson]

 

Defensive metrics here.   It really is Castro or bust as far as FAs go.  Otherwise not worth it.  I do understand that having a good framer catching a young pitching staff might help.  Intriguing name on that defensive metrics list:  Travis d' Arnaud.  If I were the Twins, I'd try to see what can make it happen, in a package probably with one of the Mets' pitchers...

d'Arnaud was one of the Mets targets listed in my "Dealing Dozier" section of the Offseason Handbook. The idea of acquiring him along with a quality arm or two is highly appealing. Unfortunately, with the Mets extending a QO to Neil Walker (which he'll almost certainly accept) I don't know that they're going to be a potential partner. At least not for BD... 

[Nick Nelson]

 

With how popular Castro is here, the dearth of free agents to spend money on and the Twins annual unlucky timing in terms of need vs supply, I'm guessing Castro is going to command more money and/or years than we expect.

Could be, although I don't know that there's any consensus on what "we expect." In the Handbook we estimated 3 years and $21 million but many seem to think that's on the high side. It's important to note that he hasn't really been a full-time player in either of the past two years, getting only ~375 PA in each. 

[HitInAPinch]

Josmil Pinto is available again.  Cleared waivers and sent to AAA Colorado Springs.  Split time between catcher and first base while hitting a strong .308/.362/.517 in 315 plate appearances with 11 home runs.

[Mr. Brooks]

Castro will be a hot property and will go where he has an opportunity to win which excludes the Twins. What about some DEFENSIVE metrics on the remaining MLB free agent catchers: Avila, Ellis, Hanigan, Hundley, Mathis and Soto? Maybe a reunion with Drew? Otherwise, what is available through minor league free agency and the Rule 5 Draft?

These are human beings and have many different reasons for choosing to sign with a team in free agency.

Sometimes (though certainly not always), it's mainly about the money.

Unless you know him personally, there is no way you can make a declarative statement like this.

[Mr. Brooks]

Just one man's opinion.....

 

Overall, I'm not a believer is this whole "blocking" thing. If the "up and comer" can't get playing time due to someone else "blocking" them, I'd have to question the skills of that "up and comer".

After couple of thoughts on this.

 

1) Baseball is not a sport in which rookies come up and play very well often. Some do, sure, but not the majority. Often you need to give a guy plenty of opportunity and experience before they make the necessary adjustments at this level.

How are guys supposed to make those adjustments if they are expected to play well immediately to earn the experience?

 

2) It's not that simple. Sometimes you have a stubborn manager (cough, cough) who refuses to play a young player unless forced to by multiple injuries.

[EGFTShaw]

 

No, but do not spend resources on players that will not be here in 3 years.  That is why I am in favor of signing an ace reliever and an ace starter next offseason.  Do not waste money on players just to get a little better next year.

I read a couple of your posts and spot on, but with a caveat.  If the player is worth and may not be here in 3 years because you have an prospect to replace him and get value in return.

But for the love of God and the Hamm's Bear, don't throw money at fringe players...

Which is why I am against Castro unless he can hit at least 1/4 of the time.  .215 average, we have that kind of impact already.

[nytwinsfan]

Castro is the way to go. Then you can platoon him with Garver or Turner or whoever. Castro's hitting against RHP is perfectly adequate.

[Cory Engelhardt]

 

I read a couple of your posts and spot on, but with a caveat.  If the player is worth and may not be here in 3 years because you have an prospect to replace him and get value in return.

But for the love of God and the Hamm's Bear, don't throw money at fringe players...

Which is why I am against Castro unless he can hit at least 1/4 of the time.  .215 average, we have that kind of impact already.

 

 

Here is Castro's stat line from last year when he only faced right handed pitching...

 

231/331/426 for a .757 OPS. That is really good for a catcher especially. He also had a 12.9% walk rate, something this team could absolutely use more of.

 

He was not good against left handed starters. He hit lefties (as a right handed hitter) to the tune of 149/237/241, with an ops of .478.

 

If Castro starts the majority of games (because there are more right handed pitchers in baseball than left handed) and is paired with another catcher who can hit lefties well, the catching position will be just fine on the offensive side of the ball. What Castro brings to the table in terms of defense and pitch framing makes this a no brainer.

 

 

[USAFChief]

 

Castro is the way to go. Then you can platoon him with Garver or Turner or whoever. Castro's hitting against RHP is perfectly adequate.

Or platooned with Murphy.

 

This is one of the things we were hoping for from new management, right?  Finding creative ways to get more production?

 

You're going to carry two catchers anyway.  Catcher is an obvious place to look for a platoon situation that ups production without costing as much as one player who can do it all.  

 

Neither C would get all their ABs against opposite hand pitching, but it's relatively simple to give them that advantage in the bulk of their PAs.

[joefish]

Make Mauer catch. Let one of the kids play first base. BOOM.

[Doomtints]

 

I absolutely disagree with this. Someone like Castro can come in and help the young pitching staff improve over the next two years or so (maybe 3) and then he can also help work with Murphy/Garver etc. It's not like the catcher position is only one guy. But, trusting every single position on your team to young players, especially when they don't have quality veterans to look up to and work with, that doesn't help.

Centeno does not belong on a MLB roster.

 

Yes.  Regardless of the readiness of Garver and Murphy, bringing in a veteran would be money well spent.  Young Mauer had the benefit of several veteran catchers to back him up and provide guidance, and that seemed to work out OK.  No?

 

And if Murphy isn't ready (likely) and Garver isn't ready (the Twins might not be ready to promote him just yet, regardless of whether or not he can do it), the Twins would have something other than an open tire fire behind the plate.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by Doomtints