Article: Derek Falvey, Thad Levine Era Begins

[Seth Stohs]

A new era of Minnesota Twins baseball began on Monday morning as Derek Falvey and Thad Levine were introduced in front of a crowd consisting of Twin Cities media, some current and former players, and fans watching online and on TV.

 

As Dave St. Peter tweeted prior to the press conference, “Today marks dawn of a new era for @Twins baseball as we welcome Derek Falvey & Thad Levine. Right leadership tandem at the right time.”Derek Falvey was officially announced as the Twins Chief Baseball Officer last month. However, due to an agreement between Minnesota, Cleveland and MLB, he remained with Cleveland through the World Series. However, in that time, he was able to hire his choice for Twins General Manager, and he chose long-time assistant GM of the Texas Rangers, Thad Levine.

 

In addition, interim GM Rob Antony told reporters that his new title would be essentially be his old title, Assistant General Manager.

 

To summarize, the messages shared from the mouths of both Falvey and Levine included a lot of collaborations and synergy at every level. From scouting, to player development, to the Major League club, the goal will be to share a common system of beliefs and structure. As you will find with many companies, they will focus on People, Process and Culture. Good people who are interested in communication and continuous improvement will work within some established processes to develop a culture. Hopefully that culture involves winning, and a lot of it.

 

 

 

According to Falvey, the goal is “long-term, sustainable, championship-caliber” success for the organization he had earlier described as “one of the most proud, resilient franchises in baseball.”

 

Getting to that level will require a lot of work. And that work starts right away. Tonight, Falvey, Levine and Antony fly to Scottsdale, Arizona, for the GM Meetings. According to Falvey, they will “dive underneath the hood of this team here.” He added, “We would expect that we’ll go through player personnel decisions and evaluations over the next 72 hours aggressively and work forward from there.”

 

As we all know, part of the arrangement with a restructured front office was that Paul Molitor was to remain the team’s manager. That came directly from owner Jim Pohlad.

 

Falvey and Molitor have met a few times and it sounds like the discussions have been good. “He and I share the same vision which is building a winning organization and a winning Major League team.”

 

On Molitor, Levine added, “My opinion is that the healthiest franchises in the game have strong synergies between ownership, front office, business and the clubhouse. So when we walk in the door having inherited a manager of the caliber of Paul Molitor, we feel like we’ve got a partner in this process, someone we can invest in the future with, so we view it as a prominent positive.”

 

The team isn’t starting from scratch. As Falvey noted, “There are some building blocks here. There are some good young players. There’s talent in this organization. I think that’s a credit to Terry Ryan and the staff that came before us and built a good foundation, particularly on the position player side. It’s something I’ve always admired from a distance.”

 

Falvey wasn’t willing to say how good this team is or how good they can be in 2017. “I don’t want to put restraints on teams. I want to go into the year with the hope that we are a competitive team that continues to build and gets better every single day.”

 

The big question, of course, is how to go about adding pitching, something the Twins are greatly in need of. For Falvey, he said it’s the same philosophy for hitters or pitchers.

 

“We’re trying to seek and find the best possible talent that exists out there, and then align that talent with a development plan that will maximize those strengths.”

 

It’s a system that worked with Cleveland. They were able to bring together scouting, development and major league operations to bring the best results. He talked about working with other departments such as medical and strength and conditioning, and potentially some departments that currently do not exist.

 

The new staff will attempt to bring balance to the organization. They will communicate internally. It is a sound strategy.

 

Listen, the reality is that Falvey and Levine have their work cut out for them. Aside from some of the specifics as it relates to analytics, the message was the same you would have heard from Ryan and his group, or any new collection being brought in. Falvey and Levine use bigger words and speak very well. They do bring knowledge and experience from outside the current Twins system, but they also know that it isn’t 100 percent about analytics.

 

I was impressed with Levine noting that the opinions of former players like Michael Young and Darren Oliver, who are senior advisers in the Rangers’ front office, were helpful in the evaluation as well. Corey Koskie, Joe Mauer and Glen Perkins were in attendance.

 

Falvey talked about being a “data-driven organization.”

 

Levine thinks that data needs to be “married up with the scouting acumen of your field staff. The talent evaluators are really the difference-makers in the game. I subscribe to the theory that the competitive advantage is that whoever has the best talent evaluators... who then has it married up with an ownership group who will support you to acquire that talent, is probably going to win a lot of games.”

 

 

Levine also noted that relationship building, the human side, is just as important. Working with the media. Building relationships with agents. All in an attempt to be able to bring in the best talent. Young talent. Talented veterans. Leaders. It all fits into the equation. So while the theme most Twins fans want to hear are words like “analytics” and “advanced stats,” it’s good to hear that these new leaders will always understand the human element as well.

 

Things are changing in the front office of the Minnesota Twins. The goals remain the same. Build a winner. Build a team that can win in the short and long terms. It is certainly going to be a challenge.

 

Press conferences are an opportunity to meet the new guys. We had the opportunity to listen to them speak and see some personality. It’s hard to lose in an introductory press conference. But for the most part, I feel like it was a successful unveiling of the new direction. Falvey and Levine are both very well spoken and articulate. They flash business acumen, but they have also been in great organizations that have won. They are very convincing and appear to be strong leaders. Levine showed a sense of humor and hinted humility with a few of his remarks.

 

Of course now the work begins. Coming off of a 59-win season, much work needs to be done to make the team more competitive. It feels like the Twins have made some strong choices. Now the fun of the offseason begins.

 

We know that those reading this on the pages of Twins Daily will be watching closely to see what will happen!

 

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[Craig Arko]

Watched the stream of most of it. Seems like a good team. I think it will take a while to get things going so I'm not expecting a vast change in the 2017 results, just some real positive movement.. 2018, on the other hand, should see ascent.

 

And Sid is amazing.

[Parker Hageman]

Here's something interesting to consider. When the reports of Lavine being hired were floated, I did some due diligence on him and found an interesting piece on him from the WaPo in 2011 in which he said that the evaluators are the biggest advantage a team could have:

 

In a 2011 Washington Post profile on Levine, Levine said that he believed the biggest advantage a team could have is hiring the best talent evaluators. He noted that there were approximately 30-to-50 of these baseball oracles floating around the game and that he was focused on hiring several of them to give his team the upper hand.

 

 

Lavine reiterated this a bit today.

 

It makes me wonder what his thoughts are on the current state of the Twins evaluation team. I think Terry Ryan would easily be considered one of the 30-to-50 top evaluators in the game -- and there was some indication that the club was in talks to have him stay around -- but is there anyone else? Radcliff?

 

Does that mean Lavine will be hiring more evaluators? 

[Monkeypaws]

Hopefully this will stop all the second guessing of the Twins brain-trust that goes on here.

 

Or WILL it?

[Mike Sixel]

If they think they are going to be competitive, and can't just admit they are rebuilding, not sure what has actually changed....so let's hope those are empty words.

[Mr. Brooks]

Here's something interesting to consider. When the reports of Lavine being hired were floated, I did some due diligence on him and found an interesting piece on him from the WaPo in 2011 in which he said that the evaluators are the biggest advantage a team could have:

 

 

Lavine reiterated this a bit today.

 

It makes me wonder what his thoughts are on the current state of the Twins evaluation team. I think Terry Ryan would easily be considered one of the 30-to-50 top evaluators in the game -- and there was some indication that the club was in talks to have him stay around -- but is there anyone else? Radcliff?

 

Does that mean Lavine will be hiring more evaluators?

What are you basing your opinion of Ryan as "easily a top 30 to 50 talent evaluator" on?

I'm not saying he's not, I guess I don't even know how to evaluate that, just curious why you think he is.

[Yoke]

 

If they think they are going to be competitive, and can't just admit they are rebuilding, not sure what has actually changed....so let's hope those are empty words.

Do they really need to come right out and say "hey, we're rebuilding"?

 

Will people feel better about a bad team if they come right out and say it? I kind of doubt that.

[Parker Hageman]

 

What are you basing your opinion of Ryan as "easily a top 30 to 50 talent evaluator" on?
I'm not saying he's not, I guess I don't even know how to evaluate that, just curious why you think he is.

 

More of an industry-wide accepted belief than an opinion. What you think of Terry Ryan as a GM and what you think of Terry Ryan as a scout should be completely different. 

 

But you raise a good question that I would like to know from Levine -- who does he think is a top evaluator?  What are his standards for an evaluator? Does he think they can be made or is it some oracle-like gift that cannot be passed down?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Do they really need to come right out and say "hey, we're rebuilding"?

 

Will people feel better about a bad team if they come right out and say it? I kind of doubt that.

 

I would, otherwise they are lying and setting people up to be disappointed. Just admit you are rebuilding, and that your actions are all about putting the best team out there in the mean time, but our goal is to be great in 2 years.....

[Mr. Brooks]

More of an industry-wide accepted belief than an opinion. What you think of Terry Ryan as a GM and what you think of Terry Ryan as a scout should be completely different.

 

But you raise a good question that I would like to know from Levine -- who does he think is a top evaluator? What are his standards for an evaluator? Does he think they can be made or is it some oracle-like gift that cannot be passed down?

Well the game, and the way talent is evaluated, has changed dramatically since Ryan was last a scout.

For the last 3 or few years, Ryan has spoke of the talent he assembled, before each season, and said he thought they were rosters that could compete.

 

Of course, the comeback could be that he was lying to protect ticket sales and team interest.

But, the moves he made were suggestive of him believing what he said, not of a rebuilding team.

 

Based on that, I think his ability to evaluate talent has probably fallen pretty far over the years.

[Mr. Brooks]

Do they really need to come right out and say "hey, we're rebuilding"?

 

Will people feel better about a bad team if they come right out and say it? I kind of doubt that.

Absolutely. Short of revealing specific strategy, or industry secrets, I'd like my teams to be as direct and honest as they can.

Fan interest is what allows them to make millions off this game in the first place.

Plus, I don't see the downside. Nobody is going to buy season tickets just because the front office tells them they are going to be good.

[SF Twins Fan]

I don't agree they're in a complete rebuild. The Twins have a lot of very good young position players at the MLB level. SS needs to be upgraded, and that all depends on what the Twins do with Dozier and Polanco. Maybe Polance is the answer and maybe the Twins trade Dozier and move Polanco to 2nd. But they do have Nick Gordan at AA and he's been playing very well in the  AFL. The only real position that needs a drastic improvement is catcher. There are a few options with Murphy and Garver but that position would benefit from another player being brought in via FA or trade.  

 

Obviously the biggest team need is pitching but the Twins have a few players who could be difference makers. Starting Staff: Berrios, May, Mejia, Gonsalves, Gibson and Santana. Bullpen: Chargois, Hildenberger, Light, Burdi, Pressely and Rodgers.

 

Plus having Jay, Jorge, Stewart and Romero at AA to start the season there are many options. They won't all make it to the MLB with the Twins but a few of them could be used in a multi player trade to bring in the Ace the Twins really need. The biggest challenge will be determining which of these players should stay and which should be traded away.

[beckmt]

You almost cannot trade for an ace.  You have to develop one or buy one.  It may be cheaper to buy bullpen and build from the backend out.  And this might be the way to make the Twins competitive sooner.  The other way will cost you 30+ million a year after 2017.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't agree they're in a complete rebuild. The Twins have a lot of very good young position players at the MLB level. SS needs to be upgraded, and that all depends on what the Twins do with Dozier and Polanco. Maybe Polance is the answer and maybe the Twins trade Dozier and move Polanco to 2nd. But they do have Nick Gordan at AA and he's been playing very well in the  AFL. The only real position that needs a drastic improvement is catcher. There are a few options with Murphy and Garver but that position would benefit from another player being brought in via FA or trade.  

 

Obviously the biggest team need is pitching but the Twins have a few players who could be difference makers. Starting Staff: Berrios, May, Mejia, Gonsalves, Gibson and Santana. Bullpen: Chargois, Hildenberger, Light, Burdi, Pressely and Rodgers.

 

Plus having Jay, Jorge, Stewart and Romero at AA to start the season there are many options. They won't all make it to the MLB with the Twins but a few of them could be used in a multi player trade to bring in the Ace the Twins really need. The biggest challenge will be determining which of these players should stay and which should be traded away.

 

They have been the worst team, or near worst team, in the league for 4-5 years now, they aren't rebuilding? 

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't agree they're in a complete rebuild. The Twins have a lot of very good young position players at the MLB level. SS needs to be upgraded, and that all depends on what the Twins do with Dozier and Polanco. Maybe Polance is the answer and maybe the Twins trade Dozier and move Polanco to 2nd. But they do have Nick Gordan at AA and he's been playing very well in the AFL. The only real position that needs a drastic improvement is catcher. There are a few options with Murphy and Garver but that position would benefit from another player being brought in via FA or trade.

 

Obviously the biggest team need is pitching but the Twins have a few players who could be difference makers. Starting Staff: Berrios, May, Mejia, Gonsalves, Gibson and Santana. Bullpen: Chargois, Hildenberger, Light, Burdi, Pressely and Rodgers.

 

Plus having Jay, Jorge, Stewart and Romero at AA to start the season there are many options. They won't all make it to the MLB with the Twins but a few of them could be used in a multi player trade to bring in the Ace the Twins really need. The biggest challenge will be determining which of these players should stay and which should be traded away.

Not a single one of those pitchers has come close to proving anything, other than Gibson, who has proven to be mediocre at best.

Left field also needs an answer, Rosario's ceiling is 4th OF'er. The other 2 outfielders have a lot of promise, but each have 1 good month in the majors.

Gordon hasn't proven anything in the minors, let alone the majors.

Sano may not be able to play third base.

We have a plethora of options at DH, but none that anyone can have complete faith in right now.

Yes, this team is still rebuilding. The rebuild is not complete until raw talent stats to turn into proven baseball players.

[Parker Hageman]

Well the game, and the way talent is evaluated, has changed dramatically since Ryan was last a scout.

For the last 3 or few years, Ryan has spoke of the talent he assembled, before each season, and said he thought they were rosters that could compete.

 

 

As I said, the Terry Ryan scouting aspect -- looking at an individual player -- needs to be separated from the Terry Ryan GM decisions.

 

Even when he was a GM, Ryan never stopped scouting. Never stopped evaluating. He was probably one of the biggest road dogs among all the GMs, always making stops throughout the minor league system as well as the AZ Fall League. 

 

Frankly, I don't think the way talent is observed and evaluate through scouting has changed that much. The way the information and reports are processed and the way the decisions are made inside the front office has definitely changed, which was Ryan's issue. 

 

You could possibly argue that StatCast data, PitchF/X and other data collectors adds a new level to scouting -- if you want to call that a part of scouting/evaluation. However, I'm not sure that is what Lavine was referring to. That seems to be separate from his definition of baseball evaluator. 

 

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

You almost cannot trade for an ace. You have to develop one or buy one. It may be cheaper to buy bullpen and build from the backend out. And this might be the way to make the Twins competitive sooner. The other way will cost you 30+ million a year after 2017.

 

I'm pretty sure both teams that just finished the World Series traded for their respective aces.

The Twins traded for the only ace they've had in my adult lifetime (Johan- most people think we took him in the Rule V draft, that's not quite true. Someone else took him, then traded him to us.)

Liriano was traded for. He would have been an ace if he didn't blow out his arm.

You absolutely can trade for future aces. You just have to be smart enough to outscout everyone else, something we haven't had in a while.

[Mike Sixel]

 

As I said, the Terry Ryan scouting aspect -- looking at an individual player -- needs to be separated from the Terry Ryan GM decisions.

 

Even when he was a GM, Ryan never stopped scouting. Never stopped evaluating. He was probably one of the biggest road dogs among all the GMs, always making stops throughout the minor league system as well as the AZ Fall League. 

 

Frankly, I don't think the way talent is observed and evaluate through scouting has changed that much. The way the information and reports are processed and the way the decisions are made inside the front office has definitely changed, which was Ryan's issue. 

 

You could possibly argue that StatCast data, PitchF/X and other data collectors adds a new level to scouting -- if you want to call that a part of scouting/evaluation. However, I'm not sure that is what Lavine was referring to. That seems to be separate from his definition of baseball evaluator. 

 

Well, we can't see the process, but we can see the results.....so I am wondering if he is still a good scout or not.

[Mr. Brooks]

As I said, the Terry Ryan scouting aspect -- looking at an individual player -- needs to be separated from the Terry Ryan GM decisions.

 

Even when he was a GM, Ryan never stopped scouting. Never stopped evaluating. He was probably one of the biggest road dogs among all the GMs, always making stops throughout the minor league system as well as the AZ Fall League.

 

Frankly, I don't think the way talent is observed and evaluate through scouting has changed that much. The way the information and reports are processed and the way the decisions are made inside the front office has definitely changed, which was Ryan's issue.

 

You could possibly argue that StatCast data, PitchF/X and other data collectors adds a new level to scouting -- if you want to call that a part of scouting/evaluation. However, I'm not sure that is what Lavine was referring to. That seems to be separate from his definition of baseball evaluator.

I wasn't referring to his decisions as GM, I was referring to his evaluation of the players he had assembled at the start of each season.

He looked at (scouted) a collection of baseball players, and his evaluation was that they looked like playoff contenders. Several times that was his evaluation, and each time he was wrong, most of the time by a massive margin.

[Monkeypaws]

What do you call it when you give the reins to a new, young management team, and full time positions to a bunch of young players who still have everything to prove at the Major League level? Does a team need to wipe the slate entirely clean of veterans for it to qualify as a rebuild?

[operation mindcrime]

So basically Rob Antony's new job duties are fetching coffee and ordering take out! \m/

[SF Twins Fan]

 

They have been the worst team, or near worst team, in the league for 4-5 years now, they aren't rebuilding? 

I completely agree with the first part of your statement but to say the Twins are in a complete rebuild is in my opinion an over exaggeration.  A complete rebuild implies the team doesn't have a foundation, which is where I would have put the Twins in 2012 - 2015.  Back then the product at the MLB level was awful in both pitching and position but the minor league was also completely empty of any prospects.  At this point yes the top prospects haven't proven themselves at the MLB level but they were elite prospects and have a proven track record in the minors.  They have had SOME success at the MLB level and now it will be up to them to make that continued success.

[Doomtints]

 

 A complete rebuild implies the team doesn't have a foundation, which is where I would have put the Twins in 2012 - 2015. 

 

Assuming the foundation is Buxton and Sano, the Twins had their foundation of the future in place by 2012.  No?

 

It's time to get some pitchers, fill in some holes, and roll.  

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Not a single one of those pitchers has come close to proving anything, other than Gibson, who has proven to be mediocre at best.
Left field also needs an answer, Rosario's ceiling is 4th OF'er. The other 2 outfielders have a lot of promise, but each have 1 good month in the majors.
Gordon hasn't proven anything in the minors, let alone the majors.
Sano may not be able to play third base.
We have a plethora of options at DH, but none that anyone can have complete faith in right now.
Yes, this team is still rebuilding. The rebuild is not complete until raw talent stats to turn into proven baseball players.

I understand they haven't proven themselves at the MLB level but they need to be given a chance first and not just a few starts and then send them back down and then call them back up to send them back down after a few more starts.  A legit chance to work through things at the MLB level once they have proven they have handled the minors.  The Twins haven't done that and it's one reason I don't like the fact that Molitor is coming back as the manager.  

 

I'm confused on your take on Gordon saying he hasn't proven himself in the minors so far.  He's has been very consistent with the bat at all levels and is proven so in the AFL, which is probably the toughest competition he's faced up until now.  His defense definitely needs work but based off of what scouts have said they believe he will stick at SS.  I don't see how he hasn't proven himself in the minors.

 

Sano is definitely a work in progress but I would like to see him go through the entire season at 3B instead of "working" all off season at the RF then getting moved back to 3B half way through the season.  He's probably only played 162 games at 3B since his tommy john surgery, which was 3 seasons ago.  I didn't look it up so that's an educated guess.  He needs to play all spring training and all of next season at 3B before we will even come close to understanding if he can play the position or not.

 

I guess maybe I differ in my thought process on what a complete rebuild is.  Like I mentioned in another comment I think a complete rebuild entails a crappy MLB product with zero good young players to go along with an empty cupboard in the minors.  Yes all those players still need to prove themselves at the MLB level but it's still better that the Twins have the "elite" prospects that have made their way up the minor leagues with success.

Edited November 7, 2016 by lmfao1

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Assuming the foundation is Buxton and Sano, the Twins had their foundation of the future in place by 2012.  No?

 

It's time to get some pitchers, fill in some holes, and roll.  

Yes but what level were they at in 2012?  Buxton was in the rookie league and Sano played in low A.  

[brvama]

Regarding being competitive, Falvey did NOT say they would competitive. He said, “I don’t want to put restraints on teams. I want to go into the year with the hope that we are a competitive team that continues to build and gets better every single day.” He "hopes."

 

This sentiment in no way ignores reality. To say they are awful, or will be, does nothing to promote anything but a negative attitude toward the team and expectations. These are humans and hope is what drives humans, otherwise what's the point of doing anything, including living.

 

I'm sure he fully understands the situation here and has no illusions. But I, for one, would greatly disappointed if he started out saying there's no chance to be competitive, (Which, btw, can be a subjective term.). How competitive and by what measure he did not articulated.

[Doomtints]

 

Yes but what level were they at in 2012?  Buxton was in the rookie league and Sano played in low A.  

 

No debate there, obviously.  But the point is, the foundation is going on its 5th year now.  It's time to build on top of the foundation.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by Doomtints

[Mr. Brooks]

I understand they haven't proven themselves at the MLB level but they need to be given a chance first and not just a few starts and then send them back down and then call them back up to send them back down after a few more starts. A legit chance to work through things at the MLB level once they have proven they have handled the minors. The Twins haven't done that and it's one reason I don't like the fact that Molitor is coming back as the manager.

 

I'm confused on your take on Gordon saying he hasn't proven himself in the minors so far. He's has been very consistent with the bat at all levels and is proven so in the AFL, which is probably the toughest competition he's faced up until now. His defense definitely needs work but based off of what scouts have said they believe he will stick at SS. I don't see how he hasn't proven himself in the minors.

 

Sano is definitely a work in progress but I would like to see him go through the entire season at 3B instead of "working" all off season at the RF then getting moved back to 3B half way through the season. He's probably only played 162 games at 3B since his tommy john surgery, which was 3 seasons ago. I didn't look it up so that's an educated guess. He needs to play all spring training and all of next season at 3B before we will even come close to understanding if he can play the position or not.

 

I guess maybe I differ in my thought process on what a complete rebuild is. Like I mentioned in another comment I think a complete rebuild entails a crappy MLB product with zero good young players to go along with an empty cupboard in the minors. Yes all those players still need to prove themselves at the MLB level but it's still better that the Twins have the "elite" prospects that have made their way up the minor leagues with success.

1) Yes, all those young guys need to play. Pencil them in and see who sinks and who swims. That is part of rebuilding. A rebuild is not complete until most of your team can be written in with ink.

We don't have very many spots that can be written in ink yet.

 

2) On Gordon, I don't even consider a guy as being on the MLB radar until they've proven it at AA.

That is not a knock on Gordon. You have to crawl before you can walk. But, I wouldn't even consider a prospect as a potential solution at a position until they prove it at AA.

 

3)Yes, Sano needs to play 3B every single day for at least a full season, I would do 2 full seasons. Luckily we are a rebuilding team, so we can afford to give him time over there.

 

4) You keep qualifying it with "complete rebuild". Well of course, nobody would claim the cupboard is completely bare. That doesn't mean we are not rebuilding.

Yes, we have a foundation. But if a tornado comes and knocks your house down to the foundation- it's time to rebuild.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Mr. Brooks

[Doomtints]

 

3)Yes, Sano needs to play 3B every single day for at least a full season, I would do 2 full seasons. Luckily we are a rebuilding team, so we can afford to give him time over there.

 

He'll have an injury by the end of the first month and you'll lose his bat for half the year unless he slides back in at DH and hasn't blown out his arm again.  If Sano ever plays a full year at 3B (140+ games) I'll give you fifty bucks.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by Doomtints

[beckmt]

 

I'm pretty sure both teams that just finished the World Series traded for their respective aces.
The Twins traded for the only ace they've had in my adult lifetime (Johan- most people think we took him in the Rule V draft, that's not quite true. Someone else took him, then traded him to us.)
Liriano was traded for. He would have been an ace if he didn't blow out his arm.
You absolutely can trade for future aces. You just have to be smart enough to outscout everyone else, something we haven't had in a while.

I probably misspoke, but you have to find that ace before they reach the major leagues for any amount of time.  Otherwise it will cost you most of your very good upper level farm system   Anything is possible, since if the White Sox rebuild they may trade one or both of Sale and Quintana, but cost in prospects would be extremely high, unless Sox totally blow what they want.