Article: Twins Have Unmatched Run Of Instability At DH

[diehardtwinsfan]

ok, seriously, drop it.  He's using the information he has, and he's not sure how reliable it is.  That's hardly an unusual thing.  It's a lot like quoting defensive metrics.  It's what we have, and lots of people don't trust them.

[mazeville]

On the list of Twins problems of the past couple of decades, this one isn't even in the top five. They've had strong offenses aplenty over that time. It's not like their offense was bad last year. 

[jimmer]

 

On the list of Twins problems of the past couple of decades, this one isn't even in the top five. They've had strong offenses aplenty over that time. It's not like their offense was bad last year. 

15 teams in the AL

11th in wRC+ (bottom third)
11th in OBP (bottom third)
13th in K% (bottom third)
8th in AL in HR (average)
8th in AL in OPS (average)
9th in AL in slg% (below average)
9th in runs scored (below average)

 

And most of these guys on offense are the ones that provided the 2nd worst defense in the majors this year.

Edited November 4, 2016 by jimmer

[Thrylos]

Having the DH position as a rotating position to keep for regulars who might have slight issues and/or need a rest is the way to go.

 

Unfortunately, the Twins made a pretty large investment on Buyng Ho Park to be their designated designated hitter.  Just did not work out the way that the Ryan Front Office have planned it (captain obvious statement of the year.) 

 

Also: No matter what, unless someone is practically crippled, like Kubel, you never want to make a young player a full time DH while they have the opportunity to grow in a particular position.  DH was established to extend the career of hitters who just could not play the field any more, like the aforementioned Molitor, Jim Thome, Don Baylor, etc.  You just don't do that to a kid, if you have any sense.

 

[USAFChief]

 

Having the DH position as a rotating position to keep for regulars who might have slight issues and/or need a rest is the way to go.

 

Unfortunately, the Twins made a pretty large investment on Buyng Ho Park to be their designated designated hitter.  Just did not work out the way that the Ryan Front Office have planned it (captain obvious statement of the year.) 

 

Also: No matter what, unless someone is practically crippled, like Kubel, you never want to make a young player a full time DH while they have the opportunity to grow in a particular position.  DH was established to extend the career of hitters who just could not play the field any more, like the aforementioned Molitor, Jim Thome, Don Baylor, etc.  You just don't do that to a kid, if you have any sense.

Having the DH as a rotating position is  one way to go.  Not necessarily the way to go.  Plenty of teams have done just fine with a full time DH.  Plenty have done just fine without one.

 

I think the DH was established because in general, pitchers can't hit.  It was a way to inject offense into the game (and it's inarguable that it has...the AL has averaged more runs per game than the NL in the DH era) under the theory it would attract more fans.  Extending careers was a byproduct of the DH, not the reason for it.

 

 

[DocBauer]

Again, nothing wrong with a full time DH, especially if it's an older player who can't get it done in the field so much any longer, but still caries a nice stick. Or a good hitter who just isn't as good defensively as the player in front of him. But I much prefer a balanced roster where I can plug in that 4th OF, quality utility infielder, or backup 1B or catcher and let the "regular" have that half day off.

 

I agree with Thrylos in general, in regard to Sano in particular, that to pigeon hole a young player in to a DH slot is just wrong, unless he proves himself unworthy to play defense, or another player, with a good bat, is just better in the field and he's stuck behind him.

 

For the umpteenth time, would everyone quit trying to make a DH out of Sano at this point? Perhaps he could be better conditioned and work a bit harder. Perhaps. But he's still very young and has 700 ML AB's.

 

Again, for the umpteenth time, look at Gatti and Koski for the Twins, who took time to develop defensively. Or Boggs, Thoma, and the list goes on and on for guys with big bats who took a little time to develop defensively.

 

Sano is a good athlete for his size. He has a big gun for an arm. He charges the ball surprisingly well. Give him some time to find himself and develop at 3B. And if he can't, I'd think he'd be a logical choice to play 1B down the road. But it is very short sighted and impatient to declare him as a DH only at this point.

[The Wise One]

ESPN lists stats DH as DH. Twins rank right in the middle, number 8.   They could have kept Morales or Ortiz and been better off. They could have signed Nelson Cruz.    They could have signed Gattis, Laroche  or any other number of respected hitters that went into the tank.   The game of 20 20 hindsight  is a painfull one. What the Twins have done is average for the league. That it is a revolving door is immaterial. What to do going forward is the question. For a rebuilding team, they should get as many AB to developing hitters.  Revolving doors are just fine as long as they don't hit you in the behind

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/seasontype/2/split/86/league/al/sort/OPS/order/true

Edited November 5, 2016 by The Wise One

[KirbyDome89]

More important than whether the Twins go with a full time DH or a platoon are the results at the position. I would prefer a platoon because it gives the team flexibility defensively, but I definitely wouldn't complain about having a full time DH like Nelson Cruz or Edwin Encarnacion. The number of games started by individual players at the position is irrelevant but the statistical numbers put up at DH definitely are not. 

 

As a side note; Joe Mauer is to some posters on the site as the patriarchy is to feminists. Instead of honestly looking into situations to see where a perceived issue is rooted, one would rather glance at Mauer's contract and proclaim it the reason for every fault this team has. 

[old nurse]

 

as the patriarchy is to feminists. Instead of honestly looking into situations to see where a perceived issue is rooted,

Wow, great example of how people have no honesty when looking at an issue

[Mr. Brooks]

15 teams in the AL

 

11th in wRC+ (bottom third)

11th in OBP (bottom third)

13th in K% (bottom third)

8th in AL in HR (average)

8th in AL in OPS (average)

9th in AL in slg% (below average)

9th in runs scored (below average)

 

And most of these guys on offense are the ones that provided the 2nd worst defense in the majors this year.

Thank you Jimmer. There seems to be a disconnect between what our offense actually is, and what perception of it is.

I get that the offense is not add bad as the pitching, but middle to bottom third in the league definitely leaves plenty of room for improvement.

[The Wise One]

 

15 teams in the AL

11th in wRC+ (bottom third)
11th in OBP (bottom third)
13th in K% (bottom third)
8th in AL in HR (average)
8th in AL in OPS (average)
9th in AL in slg% (below average)
9th in runs scored (below average)

 

And most of these guys on offense are the ones that provided the 2nd worst defense in the majors this year.

Since the topic is DH, the difference in having an above average dh from what they did would be in the range of 20 runs. Not really enough to make much of a difference in those rankings. It would also do little to change the defensive rankings.   Rankings will change as the vaunted  prospects mature and grow as players, much as many others have done before them.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Wow, great example of how people have no honesty when looking at an issue

Yeah...suuuuuuure....

[Boom Boom]

I think the Twins should go into 2017 with Mauer as the LH side of a DH platoon. He apparently doesn't have the stamina to play in the field for a full season, judging by Molitor's sparing use of him late.

[jimmer]

 

I think the Twins should go into 2017 with Mauer as the LH side of a DH platoon. He apparently doesn't have the stamina to play in the field for a full season, judging by Molitor's sparing use of him late.

Yeah, with our commitment to having the worse defense possible, I concur with having our best defensive 1B, who gets on base better than practically anyone on our team, sit in favor of either the FA signing hat was so bad he had to go down to AAA (Park) or the guy who had a nice 18 games in June and then went back to being what he was in 2015 (Vargas) :-)

 

Unfortunately, it seems the best we are going to get out of Mauer is very good OBP and high quality defense.  We make him our main DH, we take anyway one of the two things he has left of value in his game, and replace him with inferior defenders.

Edited November 6, 2016 by jimmer

[Mike Sixel]

If Mauer is on the roster, he should play 1B against nearly all righties....he is a very good defensive player. 

[Boom Boom]

Yeah, with our commitment to having the worse defense possible, I concur with having our best defensive 1B, who gets on base better than practically anyone on our team, sit in favor of either the FA signing hat was so bad he had to go down to AAA (Park) or the guy who had a nice 18 games in June and then went back to being what he was in 2015 (Vargas) :-)

 

Unfortunately, it seems the best we are going to get out of Mauer is very good OBP and high quality defense. We make him our main DH, we take anyway one of the two things he has left of value in his game, and replace him with inferior defenders.

I was more interested in trying to keep Joe healthy. If it mitigates leg soreness and keeps him in the lineup late in the season, it might also improve his offensive numbers.

 

I'm not too concerned about first base defense.

[old nurse]

The leg weakness last year I thought stemmed from batting.  How did he hit without using leg muscles before? The whole leg weakness thing sounds like there is something wrong and they have not figured it out yet

[LaBombo]

 

There is nothing wrong with having a professional designated hitter on a team. Just think, the Twins could've kept Ortiz and paid him less than they are paying, say, Joe Mauer. In the end, imagine what that would've given THIS team.

 

 

A lower draft choice?