2016-2017 Wolves season

[Pardon My Dinger]

I think Ricky for Rose would make a ton of sense, actually. Thibs sees Dunn as Minnesota's PG of the future, but he's not that guy right now. So, wouldn't it be a great test to have a guy who profiles closely to Dunn's offensive upside so he can see how the machine is going to operate? 

[bluechipper]

 

Thibs really doesn't like Rubio for some reason?  Is that a safe conclusion?

I'm confused by this too. I'm sure Rubio is a great player to coach, but Thibs must think his PG needs to be a scoring threat in order to be successful. This is based on his Bulls teams, but the counterargument is him winning with Rondo, a slightly better version of Rubio.

[bluechipper]

 

So what are people's thoughts on the Wolves' interest in Derrek Rose? Speculation is that Rubio could be shipped out which makes sense considering the position redundancy.

 

Rose would be a rental, so basically he'd be acquired to try to get the Wolves in position to get trounced by the Warriors in round one of the playoffs. On the other hand he has an expiring contract which is positive if the team wants to bid on a good free agent next year.

 

If Rubio and Rose are both gone next year, are we cool giving Dunn the keys to the car?

I'm not comfortable with that at all. Dunn has shown no ability to get to the rim or run an offense so far. I don't think he'll ever be a good enough offensive player to be considered an upper half PG.

 

The only upside to this would be freeing up some money to try and sign one of Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague, or George Hill.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I'm not comfortable with that at all. Dunn has shown no ability to get to the rim or run an offense so far. I don't think he'll ever be a good enough offensive player to be considered an upper half PG.

 

The only upside to this would be freeing up some money to try and sign one of Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague, or George Hill.

 

More likely, you're drafting a point guard again next year and letting Dunn and him have a knock down, drag them out fight to see who the future really is.

[bluechipper]

 

More likely, you're drafting a point guard again next year and letting Dunn and him have a knock down, drag them out fight to see who the future really is.

Maybe, but I doubt the Wolves want to waste another season developing a rookie and second year PG.

[DaveW]

Rose for Rubio?

 

Puke

[kab21]

I get this feeling that if the Wolves dump Rubio they will end up regretting it. I understand wanting a better shooter but Dunn is nothing more than a shiny new toy with the same problems as Rubio. He can't shoot either so anyone that criticizes Rubio for that deficiency shouldn't be clamoring for Dunn.

 

the Rubio for Rose trade would be nothing more than dumping Rubio future contracts for taking on Rose right now. I really don't see the point unless the hope was that Rose would somehow run the team well and they could bring him back on a short contract. That has terrible idea written all over it.

 

And Rubio has been playing well in Jan/Feb. Possibly small sample size but he was also dinged up pretty bad early in the year. 11 ppg - 10 apg - 2 spg - 40% shooting.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, I'm also concerned Dunn is just Rubio II.  With the amount of PG talent in this draft, maybe they are just hoping to free money.  

 

Or maybe they're hoping Rose meshes well with Wiggins and KAT and he wants to stay?  It'd certainly be nice to have a PG that's a threat offensively.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Thibs doesn't want Rubio around. Not having to deal with the constipated PG situation would be one less thing to worry about.

[kab21]

 

Thibs doesn't want Rubio around. Not having to deal with the constipated PG situation would be one less thing to worry about.

I wish the Wolves had to worry about too many capable players at other positions. And so far Dunn doesn't seem very capable.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I wish the Wolves had to worry about too many capable players at other positions. And so far Dunn doesn't seem very capable.

As we've learned with the Twins, you don't need a bunch of all stars to have a logjam.

[TheLeviathan]

So the Pacers don't know what to do with Paul George.

 

Do you offer them Dunn, Lavine, and next year's high pick for George?  And do they take that?

 

Him playing SF with Wiggins at SG intrigues me greatly.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

So the Pacers don't know what to do with Paul George.

 

Do you offer them Dunn, Lavine, and next year's high pick for George?  And do they take that?

 

Him playing SF with Wiggins at SG intrigues me greatly.

Yeah, I'd do that for sure. I think it makes sense for both sides. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Wait - can you trade injured players in the NBA? 

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Maybe, but I doubt the Wolves want to waste another season developing a rookie and second year PG.

 

You're picking BPA with your draft pick if you don't want to get fired. The top 4 players in next year's draft are Ball/Fultz/Smith and Jackson for a non-PG. Rose is worse than Rubio, so by diminishing the PG position and no LaVine and you're probably drafting one of those guys.

 

All three of them are better options than Dunn.

 

 

[bluechipper]

 

You're picking BPA with your draft pick if you don't want to get fired. The top 4 players in next year's draft are Ball/Fultz/Smith and Jackson for a non-PG. Rose is worse than Rubio, so by diminishing the PG position and no LaVine and you're probably drafting one of those guys.

 

All three of them are better options than Dunn.

Fultz, Ball, and Smith are all going top 5. The Wolves aren't going to be bad enough to get one of those guys.

[ALessKosherScott]

Fultz, Ball, and Smith are all going top 5. The Wolves aren't going to be bad enough to get one of those guys.

They're sitting top six right now and Rose instead of Rubio would make them worse.

[BeenHazy]

My theory is Thibs wants a 1st for Ricky in order to package it with the Wolves 1st and Dunn for a move into the top three.  It's his best chance to acquire an eventual top 5 PG.

[zchrz]

I think the Rubio rumors get pushed by his agent a lot.  I'm sure Thibs would move him for a good price, but Derrick Rose's corpse is wayyy below that price.  Ricky may not be the long term plan but they aren't going to scrap heap him and Dunn/ Tyus aren't viable replacements. 

 

Wolves need a big wing and a real power forward that can defend the perimeter some.  If really set on trading Rubio those should be the targets not worse point guards like Rose and Jackson.

[bluechipper]

I think the Rubio rumors get pushed by his agent a lot.  I'm sure Thibs would move him for a good price, but Derrick Rose's corpse is wayyy below that price.  Ricky may not be the long term plan but they aren't going to scrap heap him and Dunn/ Tyus aren't viable replacements. 

 

Wolves need a big wing and a real power forward that can defend the perimeter some.  If really set on trading Rubio those should be the targets not worse point guards like Rose and Jackson.

I think Rose should be termed "Rose's expiring contract." If the plan is to free up some money to make two big free agent signings, then I'm not going to be too disappointed. Still somewhat though because I'm a big Rubio fan.

[ALessKosherScott]

It needs to be said, this is quickly becoming a Kahn trade.

 

[kab21]

 

As we've learned with the Twins, you don't need a bunch of all stars to have a logjam.

This is pretty meaningless. Basketball is not baseball. Basketball requires that you go 2 deep just to play a single game and you don't make a team better by trading away your best player at a position even if that player isn't ideal. Rubio has his flaws but right now Dunn WISHES that he was as good as Rubio and possesses many of the same flaws.

The only casualty of the Wolves logjam is that lack of development or playing time for Tyus Jones. Despite him being able to come in shoot I don't think anybody really feels that he is a starting PG caliber player running the offense or defensively.

Thank goodness this Rose for Rubio trade fizzled.

[bluechipper]

Great win on the road in Utah tonight. The Jazz were on a back to back, but I'll take any sort of win with how bad the Wolves usually struggle against Utah. I thought they played with a lot of effort on defense tonight, and they'll need to keep that up with the tough schedule they have coming up.

[kab21]

It doesn't really look like they dropped off much since Lavine got hurt. They had started playing well before the injury and since they continue to really in games they should win (bad teams), play competitive against .500ish teams and mostly lose against good teams (UT and HOU victories though).

 

And they are doing this with Rush pretty much not doing anything at the wing. KAT and Wiggins have been monsters for the last month. Two great signs for the future. 

[TheLeviathan]

And probably further evidence that Lavine is going to be dealt.  This team is so much better off with Wiggins at the 2.

[kab21]

 

And probably further evidence that Lavine is going to be dealt.  This team is so much better off with Wiggins at the 2.

I still don't really understand this logic though. It leads to 20-25 min/game from guys like Shabazz or Rush. Bench depth is the thing that continues to kill this team and people keep wanting to trade guys that definitely have a role in the team's top 8 rotation. For example, we need to trade Rubio to play Dunn more or trade Lavine and continue to have no wing depth.

 

Obviously Lavine shouldn't be considered off limits in major trade discussions like he was debated in the fantasy Butler trade talks but he is currently injured and not likely to have any real trade value until next year's deadline.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I still don't really understand this logic though. It leads to 20-25 min/game from guys like Shabazz or Rush. Bench depth is the thing that continues to kill this team and people keep wanting to trade guys that definitely have a role in the team's top 8 rotation. For example, we need to trade Rubio to play Dunn more or trade Lavine and continue to have no wing depth.

 

Obviously Lavine shouldn't be considered off limits in major trade discussions like he was debated in the fantasy Butler trade talks but he is currently injured and not likely to have any real trade value until next year's deadline.

 

The whole premise of your post seems to assume we trade Lavine for a PG, C, or PF.  Who is saying that?  Isn't everyone assuming Lavine moves for a SF?  A true SF/Wing?

 

All I'm saying is, we're playing as well (maybe better) without Lavine.  Which might indicate that this kid, as good as he is, just might be miscast with these other two young stars.  So packaging him with something for a true 3 seems ideal for this team.

[kab21]

 

The whole premise of your post seems to assume we trade Lavine for a PG, C, or PF.  Who is saying that?  Isn't everyone assuming Lavine moves for a SF?  A true SF/Wing?

 

All I'm saying is, we're playing as well (maybe better) without Lavine.  Which might indicate that this kid, as good as he is, just might be miscast with these other two young stars.  So packaging him with something for a true 3 seems ideal for this team.

that isn't what I am saying at all. And your description of possible trades are exactly why Lavine isn't going anywhere. Look around the league at SF that are good matches for this team and then eliminate all of them that are basically unavailable. You are probably left with a Jimmy Butler and that might be it. Injured Lavine isn't going to headline a Butler trade even though that would be awesome.

 

I think Lavine is miscast aside Wiggins but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a big role on the team. Wiggins plays 32 min/game and Lavine is THE GUY on the second unit for 16 min/game. Having a competent 2nd unit is going to be one of the biggest things that hold the Wolves back in the future.

In addition to that Lavine plays another 8 min/game with Wiggins and they find a way to make it work. This won't work long term when Wiggins and Towns start getting paid and Lavine is bringing in a Dieng level contract but he will be a tradeable commodity at that time.

[TheLeviathan]

The injury complicates things, but had he stayed healthy I think this offseason would've been the ideal time to move him.

 

You're right, finding a true 3 to play with Wiggins may have been hard to do, but it was also necessary.  Lavine the 6th man sound good in theory, but eventually that won't play.  And in the meantime you'd lose tremendous trade leverage and value.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I've always loved the idea of LaVine just coming off the bench like a goddamn boss, playing ~20 min/game. If KAT And Wiggins are plugging 50+ every night, not sure we'd profit from Butler et al.