Article: What Are Molitor's Infields Telling Us?

[70charger]

 

Bottom line is Nick Gordon can't get here fast enough.

 

Why? We don't need another outfielder.

[wsnydes]

I expect Molitor to continue to try to win games.  However, I expect him to try to win games using players that could be the future of this franchise.  I expect him to manage the game and make decisions based on winning the game so that those players learn how to win at this level.  Could that approach be detrimental in the near term?  Yes.  I don't care about the near term however, I care about the future.

[Platoon]

He's not trying to win games.  Beresford is in the majors simply because he's a nice guy and the Twins want to give him a taste of the big leagues before the next GM comes in.  Albers is playing with the team for the same reason, I'm guessing.

 

I have no clue what this team is doing right now, but trying to win isn't it.  It seems like they are clinging tight to their "Minnesota Nice/We're a Famly, GoshDarnit" philosophy until the very end.

 

Your post points out some true and valid points. But Molitor makes his case against it at the same time as for it. Dozier plays every game, giving them no look at Polanco at 2B. He pulls Berrios yesterday. He continues to drag the overused Pressley out in critical situations. He is the yoing and yang of coaching. Two years of watching him, and we have no idea, other than bunting, and bats come before gloves, what his philosophies are?

[tobi0040]

This organizational hierarchy can't get blown up fast enough.

Yeah. I can only imagine the morale of playing under this development staff, GM, and coach

 

I am not naive enough to think we would be a ton better. But I am not dumb enough to think it had no impact

 

I have been in organizations where leadership is clueless. There is a hopeless feeling that exists among the ranks.

 

When you see Kurt Suzuki DH. Or Sano in RF. Or Polanco exclusively play 2b and then SS in the majors. I can't help but think that same feeling exists. Behind closed doors those conversations happen between players.

[frightwig]

 

some day I'd love to read a short story about why they didn't play Polanco at SS in AAA, and then moved him to SS in the majors. IMO, if that was a real possibility, they probably should have played him at SS in AAA.

 

I suppose that they meant to groom him to take over for Dozier, who followed a poor second half of last season with a lousy start to this year. But since Dozier has caught fire, what do you do? You wouldn't really want to bench him or move him off 2B, and Molitor probably should plan as if Dozier will be his 2B next year, until told otherwise, anyway.

 

Plouffe also complicates things, still. If you hold out hope of trading him this winter, you need him to play, particularly since he's been hitting lately--and moving him to 1B/DH doesn't entirely clear up the logjam, either. I guess you'd have Plouffe-Mauer at 1B/DH and Sano at 3B most days--if his elbow could handle it--and Polanco is your SS, and Escobar and Vargas mostly sit the rest of the way.

 

So why not do that? I guess either Molitor doesn't like Sano at 3B right now (whether because of defense, his elbow, or his slump figures in), or he really wants to keep Polanco in the middle infield (especially since he may still be the 2B next year) but also would like to take care of Escobar, and occasionally let Beresford and Vargas play, too. Maybe all of the above.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

 

Plouffe also complicates things, still. If you hold out hope of trading him this winter, you need him to play, particularly since he's been hitting lately--and moving him to 1B/DH doesn't entirely clear up the logjam, either. 

 

Plouffe is the poster boy of non-tendering

(along with Milone and Santiago...) 

[howieramone2]

 

Plouffe is the poster boy of non-tendering

(along with Milone and Santiago...) 

Santiago is twice the starting pitcher Berrios will ever be. Berrios is a miniature LaTroy Hawkins with one inning stuff.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Santiago is twice the starting pitcher Berrios will ever be. Berrios is a miniature LaTroy Hawkins with one inning stuff.

 

I'll take that bet.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

No problem. Antony said on Inside Twins he played at 2B, because we had no depth behind Dozier in case of an injury. They already had Nunez, Escobar, and Santana at SS. 

That makes some sense on opening day 2016.  Not so much by June and July...

[Deduno Abides]

No problem. Antony said on Inside Twins he played at 2B, because we had no depth behind Dozier in case of an injury. They already had Nunez, Escobar, and Santana at SS.

 

But I thought that much of Santana's value and some of Escobar's and Nunez' value was due to their positional flexibility, which you would think would include 2B? I've been assuming Polanco didn't play SS in AAA because Rochester had a minor league free agent in Tovar and TR was always making side commitments to minor league free agents and staked his honor on living up to those commitments. Did Antony say that after Polanco played a bunch of MLB games at SS or before the season?

[DocBauer]

If Dozier is moved, Polanco to 2B is the obvious move. I think Escobar has shown enough in '14 and '15 to show what he can do offensively and defensively on an everyday basis. (Though in neither year did he start the whole season, so there could be some concern about running out of steam if someone isn't there till capably rest him once in a while) And Escobar hasn't been exactly awful this year, but hurt some, stuck behind the hot Nunez and now the Polanco audition.

 

But no Dozier, we are short at least one viable ML infielder for the roster. Do we look for a quality utility player? Or do we look for another viable, proven ML SS?

 

Do we consider Desmond and move him back to SS? Wondering on various thought on a veteran FA SS.

[Deduno Abides]

Next year, based on today's roster, Polanco should be SS, Sano should be 3B and Escobar should be utility. Polanco is an overall better player than Escobar, so he should have an opportunity to focus on one position. If Sano plays 3B roughly every other day this September, it's fine. He has more to lose from injury than he could gain by playing every day at the end of a lost season.

[howieramone2]

Sano committed 14 errors in his first 43 games at 3B. Unless they hire someone to put a gun to Molly's head, you will see just enough of Sano at 3B to keep him engaged.

Edited September 12, 2016 by howieramone2

[Thrylos]

 

Do we consider Desmond and move him back to SS? Wondering on various thought on a veteran FA SS.

 

I hope they rebuild.  A veteran FA SS will not allow Polanco to get enough reps at SS and see whether he can play that position long term.   Also rebuilding teams need veteran SSs as much as they need proven closers... They don't.  

 

The whole idea of rebuilding is to create a core of players that will reach their primes together so the team will be competitive until the next rebuild.  The Twins' current/future core is at ages 22-25.  So much outside that age range does not make sense.   Figure out what you have and when they get closer to contending, you then can close holes with veterans (like MacPhail did in '87 for example,) but getting players at or past their primes makes zero sense at this point

Edited September 12, 2016 by Thrylos

[Doomtints]

 

I hope they rebuild.  A veteran FA SS will not allow Polanco to get enough reps at SS and see whether he can play that position long term.   Also rebuilding teams need veteran SSs as much as they need proven closers... They don't.  

 

The whole idea of rebuilding is to create a core of players that will reach their primes together so the team will be competitive until the next rebuild.  The Twins' current/future core is at ages 22-25.  So much outside that age range does not make sense.   Figure out what you have and when they get closer to contending, you then can close holes with veterans (like MacPhail did in '87 for example,) but getting players at or past their primes makes zero sense at this point

 

MacPhail would be the first to tell you that you need a mix of young guys and veterans.  You need free agents to field a competitive team.  

 

Shannon Stewart was seasoned when he came in.  He wasn't a core player?  The Twins players of that era might disagree with that.  Mauer isn't a core player?  The current Twins will disagree.   "Core players" are guys you build around, sure, but their ages should be a mixture of young guys and veterans.  

 

With your philosophy the Twins would be rebuilding every year.  Kind of like what they have been doing....

[h2oface]

Looking like a push for the number one draft pick to me.

[Doomtints]

 

Looking like a push for the number one draft pick to me.

 

It actually does look a bit like a deliberate tank, doesn't it?  Beresford?  Come on....

[kellyvance]

 We don't trade Doze. Criminy, he's our best player. How does sending him away help us?  Nobody is going to give up a stud starter for a second baseman anyway. And you don't give away a guy who is getting better every year and is a threat to hit 40 big flies.

 

Polanco is getting a long audition. He should. The guy can hit. 3B is already crowded enough without playing him there. EE is a super utility from now on. Sorry all you EE fans. When Sano's arm is healthy he is the 3b. Plouffe is on the bubble. Paul wanted to showcase him for a trade and that is why Sano went to RF for a while. But Plouffe can't stay healthy. Park is done. 

 

ST will decide whether EE or DannySan sticks as a utility guy. I think Sano, Planco, Doze and Mauer are the IF of the next year. Gordon isn't ready. Mauer is a cornerstone of the team and sells lots of jerseys. So its between Vargas and Plouffe for the PH bat, and Vargas switch hits. 

 

OF should be Rosario, Bux and Kep. Grossman is expendable. 

 

Twins hoped Park could hit, same with Arcia and Vargas. But they never fit into the long term blueprint.Gross too. We have better guys than Gross on the farm. Lord knows what Shafe is doing up instead of Walker. Shafe's ceiling is so low a short guy has to duck to watch him play on TV. 

 

[DocBauer]

I hope they rebuild. A veteran FA SS will not allow Polanco to get enough reps at SS and see whether he can play that position long term. Also rebuilding teams need veteran SSs as much as they need proven closers... They don't.

 

The whole idea of rebuilding is to create a core of players that will reach their primes together so the team will be competitive until the next rebuild. The Twins' current/future core is at ages 22-25. So much outside that age range does not make sense. Figure out what you have and when they get closer to contending, you then can close holes with veterans (like MacPhail did in '87 for example,) but getting players at or past their primes makes zero sense at this point

I was thinking more in the short term, year or two, with Polanco...if Dozier is moved...to help stabilize the infield, provide more depth and competition, until someone like Gordon arrives.

[beckmt]

Dozier is the only player the Twins have that can bring you decent upside starting pitching.  Otherwise we will be looking at 2 years of bad pitching until the younger core arrives and the  Twins can figure out what they have.  By that time Dozier's contract will be over and he will be past his prime. 

[Kwak]

Molitor's infields are a result to him being on a very short lease next season--win enough games to restore the fan base--or else! This suggests to me: Dozier's is staying for 2017 (could be traded later though!); who's at SS (not 1st!)? Molitor needs someone to provide enough defense for expected solid hitting; is there a viable option at 3B to permit moving Sano to DH?; Vargas is in trouble if an all-around 3B (Escobar?) deemed to provide the necessary offense and defense.

 

Bottom line: Pohlad's protection requires 2017 to be rather good, or Paul is moved to someplace where his "baseball acumen" is more useful than at field manager.

[Rosterman]

Hey, you have an opportunity to put Mauer AND Dozier at DH. Of course, does Polanco need to play some second base? Vargas SHOULD play some first base to increase his value and SHOULD be in the lineup every day. Sano SHOULD be at third base every day because....he can be there. You have to see how he does, watch him stay in shape during some winter ball, and run him out there in spring training. We know Escobar can play shorstop.

 

We only have three firckin' weeks of baseball left. Like having Murphy catch 304 out of 5 games SHOULD be a given. You need to look hard and coach the guys who will be a part of the team next year, so you can direct them what to work on in the off-season. That is what coaching is all about, isn't it?

 

You have the ability to try pitchers in other roles, too. Berrios NEEDS to start, even if he only lasts a couple of innings. You have to look at Duffey, Dean and Albers and see if they can pitch three innings, possibly twice thru an order, in three innings. The Twins need a long guy or mop-up talent. But only one of these guys needs a place on the 40-man.

 

You have to figure out what works best for Wimmers, O'Rourke and Light...and then try them in totally different situations to see if they can adapt. These guys will be on the 40-man for sure, but will have a spring training battle ahead.

 

May, figure out his role NOW. Future closer? Set-up. Long-man or starter. Put him in a starting position for the rest of the season, making four starts, doing the proper pre-start warmups. You don't need him to pitch 3, 4 or 5 innings. Just see if he can get a routine down in three weeks and if he can stretch his arm out to 60-75 pitches in that time...successfully.

 

And, PLEASE, it is not too late to bring Adam Walker into the mix. you could use his bat off the bench in 10 of the next 19-20 games, if nothing else. So he strikesout. It will be fun to watch.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 Nobody is going to give up a stud starter for a second baseman anyway.

 

 

 

Jeff Kent (traded for David Cone) begs to differ.  And the Twins have traded a couple of different second basemen for a good haul.

 

Heck, Nunez brought back a possible #4 starter, shouldn't Dozier bring more?   And they can always package someone like Stewart to sweeten the deal.

[Thrylos]

 

 

I was thinking more in the short term, year or two, with Polanco...if Dozier is moved...to help stabilize the infield, provide more depth and competition, until someone like Gordon arrives.

 

I am not convinced that Gordon is better than Polanco at SS at this point.  Definitely Polanco's bat has been better at the same stops at the same age...

[Platoon]

First off, in a normal orginisation the GM makes the trades, Molitor would have little input in whether his job is "saved" by BD or not. But if I was Molitor, and I did have some say, and wanted to save my job, I would see that Dozier goes for the best pitcher he could bring. That's how you win games, not by hitting 25 solo HR's. That assumes he knows that pitching and defense win baseball games, not offense!

[djvang]

 

 We don't trade Doze. Criminy, he's our best player. How does sending him away help us?  Nobody is going to give up a stud starter for a second baseman anyway. And you don't give away a guy who is getting better every year and is a threat to hit 40 big flies.

 

Polanco is getting a long audition. He should. The guy can hit. 3B is already crowded enough without playing him there. EE is a super utility from now on. Sorry all you EE fans. When Sano's arm is healthy he is the 3b. Plouffe is on the bubble. Paul wanted to showcase him for a trade and that is why Sano went to RF for a while. But Plouffe can't stay healthy. Park is done. 

 

ST will decide whether EE or DannySan sticks as a utility guy. I think Sano, Planco, Doze and Mauer are the IF of the next year. Gordon isn't ready. Mauer is a cornerstone of the team and sells lots of jerseys. So its between Vargas and Plouffe for the PH bat, and Vargas switch hits. 

 

OF should be Rosario, Bux and Kep. Grossman is expendable. 

 

Twins hoped Park could hit, same with Arcia and Vargas. But they never fit into the long term blueprint.Gross too. We have better guys than Gross on the farm. Lord knows what Shafe is doing up instead of Walker. Shafe's ceiling is so low a short guy has to duck to watch him play on TV. 

The problem is in red. They're stuck with Mauer's mediocrity for two more seasons.They could get   some real pitching help for $23M/year. Damn no-trade contract.

Without him their IF would be  Sano/Vargas 1B/DH, Dozier 2B, Escobar SS, Polanco 3B, Santana utility. OF of Rosario, Buxton & Kepler. Trade Plouffe for whatever they can get. He's become too muscular and injury prone. He's also become the slowest Twin since Matt LeCroy. Mauer is a wet blanket over the whole team. They'll never compete until he's gone.

 

Just heard Reusse predict that Mauer would retire after this season because of bad legs. I'll believe that when I see it. Fingers crossed.

[jimmer]

Yes, I'm sure if Mauer's contract didn't exist, Ryan would have signed an ace type pitcher with that money...and that we'd be winning right now.  All Mauer's fault.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jimmer

[Lefty74]

Very much against trading Dozier. Now at 40 HR's and 94 RBI's. Where do we expect the infield production to come from if he goes? Dozier makes up for Mauer's lack of slugging at first base. Looked late last week and we had a player in center field who we believe is having a horrible year, Buxton at 28 RBI and Mauer who has played the entire year at 1B with 48 RBI. Keep Dozier, hope that Sano's production increases to 35+ dingers and we will see more wins. If someone wants to give us a #1 pitcher then go for a Dozier trade, but otherwise......no!

[twinssporto]

This whole conversation is like chasing your tail.  The real problem that plagues this team boils down to this:

 

Who's in charge?  Obviously no one (or if someone is actually in charge they are making some crazy moves).

 

When does the new regime start?  

[twinsnorth49]

Jeff Kent (traded for David Cone) begs to differ. And the Twins have traded a couple of different second basemen for a good haul.

 

Heck, Nunez brought back a possible #4 starter, shouldn't Dozier bring more? And they can always package someone like Stewart to sweeten the deal.

How about something that happened this century?

 

Also, he said "stud " starter, I have some pretty strong doubts Mejia ever fits that description.