Molitor 2017

[wsnydes]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 8:02 PM, nicksaviking said:

 

Is it possible the casual fans want him to stay?

Is it possible that casual fans no longer exist?  

[gocgo]

My interpretation of the letter - we have to pay him anyway so we're keeping him.

[Loosey]

I don't think this will affect the GM/ POBO search.  I always thought Molitor would START next year as manager.  The new GM will probably have some candidates in mind, but might 1) not be able to bring in someone immediately, 2) might want to evaluate what is going wrong so he can determine who to bring in who might have the traits needed that the current staff doesn't have.

[Loosey]

Pohlad also said Terry Ryan's job was safe and a month and half later he fired him.

[wsnydes]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 8:35 PM, Loosey said:

Pohlad also said Terry Ryan's job was safe and a month and half later he fired him.

While true, season ticket renewal packets go out next week.  If the intent is to sell season ticket renewals, publicly backing a floundering manager the week prior to that isn't the best sales tactic.

[jimmer]

  On 9/9/2016 at 8:37 PM, wsnydes said:

While true, season ticket renewal packets go out next week. If the intent is to sell season ticket renewals, publicly backing a floundering manager the week prior to that isn't the best sales tactic.

unless they feel season ticket holders love the former Twin and homegrown HOFer and/or just love going to baseball games.

[nicksaviking]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 9:24 PM, jimmer said:

unless they feel season ticket holders love the former Twin and homegrown HOFer and/or just love going to baseball games.

 

Right, I wonder if they actually think Molitor is a selling point for some reason.

[Vanimal46]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 9:30 PM, nicksaviking said:

Right, I wonder if they actually think Molitor is a selling point for some reason.

Pohlad was sold on Molly again after reading his bio in the Twins Media Guide. 

[Rosterman]

Again, it shows that the Twins have no idea what direction they are going. The casual fan cares about Molitor - well, look at the stands when you announce attendance of 18,000 and there are no lines at the concessions and lots more empty seats. The casual fan will react more to a manager being fired, because that COULD be the major cause of why the players are doing what they did on the field, then a manager and front office saying he players are not doing their part on the field. If the players are failing, you send them to the minors, waive them off the roster. Sadly, you just seem to bring in temporary low-priced bandages.

 

When the new POBO and GM are hired, you have your standard campaign of a new sheriff in town and things are going to change or else. The old sheriff goes to instruct minor league guys. The new sheriff also tells ALL players that the jobs are there...but if you don't want them...The St. Paul Saints are hiring across the river. You have to be pretty bad at this point to not make the Minnesota Twins roster. Ad we don't want the guys that are bad, anyways. We want those that are wanting to be a part of a team that will be a winner and go places.

 

Yes, the players can go rah-rah, but it first comes from the field staff and backed by the front office.

 

If this is the way they are already trying to market to the 2017 season, then we need even more changes in the front office, the business side just sin't getting it either.

 

[DocBauer]

Just a thought, nothing concrete to back it up, but I think it's just bad verbiage in order to "sell" optimism to the fan base.

 

A new GM, as stated previously, would probably keep Molitor for now anyway, with some suggested changes to the staff.

 

The roster, and the entire developmental staff are probably of greater concern initially than ridding oneself of the manager.

[jimmer]

  On 9/9/2016 at 9:30 PM, nicksaviking said:

Right, I wonder if they actually think Molitor is a selling point for some reason.

i think they might since they made a point of telling the season tickets holders he would be back. Not sure teams do that regularly.

[HitInAPinch]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 9:44 PM, DocBauer said:

Just a thought, nothing concrete to back it up, but I think it's just bad verbiage in order to "sell" optimism to the fan base.

A new GM, as stated previously, would probably keep Molitor for now anyway, with some suggested changes to the staff.

The roster, and the entire developmental staff are probably of greater concern initially than ridding oneself of the manager.

I guess the biggest things are: 

 

1.  How soon will the Twins be able to hire a PoBO

2.  How soon will the new PoBO be able to hire a new GM

 

IF Korn Ferry can quickly provide the Pohlad's with a list of sign-able PoBO candidates that they like, I'm not sure why that person would wait to make a decision on Molitor.  If I'm that person, I'd want some stability even before I'd hire a new GM.  I think with 1 lousy year remaining on his contract, I'd get that thing out of the way.  1 good year, 1 bad, I mean, what the hell. 

 

And, as the new PoBO, I'd take time to review MiLB managers and coaches.  Are we consistently sending the same message to a player?  Is there constant major changes between AA and AAA?

 

IDK.  But after only 2 years, I'm not hanging all this on Molitor. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

  On 9/9/2016 at 8:29 PM, gocgo said:

My interpretation of the letter - we have to pay him anyway so we're keeping him.

i dunno, in context of how Pohlad operates... "I'm not going to tell the public about what's actually happening in regards to personnel until after it happens so I'm telling the public status quo". TR was publicly backed by Pohlad in April or May and was gone in July. He can't not back his current manager until the baseball operation fires him.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Yes, Molly has all those qualities in addition to being a baseball genius.  Oddly enough he has been over-matched and outmaneuvered many times in regards to in game moves.  Hopefully Molly steps down voluntarily at some point in the off season.   

[Pius Jefferson]

If I was the agent I'd tell the Twins keeping Molitor wouldn't be a deal breaker but not having the authority to fire him or extend him would be.

[TheLeviathan]

I know this isn't going to sit well with some, but I'm far more concerned with larger organizational changes than I am with firing Molitor.

 

I want to see significant changes to how we draft and develop players.  I want to see a more analytic approach to player acquisition and development.  I want to see better roster construction.  

 

Molitor does some stuff that really annoys me, but perhaps if a new GM makes it clear what his role is (to play and develop the future) rather than Ryan's way, then maybe we'd see some changes in how Molitor operates.  And as markos has pointed out, I don't think it's really a detriment to hiring a quality GM.

 

The only detriment that matters there is Pohlad.

[jimmer]

 

  On 9/10/2016 at 3:14 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I know this isn't going to sit well with some, but I'm far more concerned with larger organizational changes than I am with firing Molitor.

 

I want to see significant changes to how we draft and develop players.  I want to see a more analytic approach to player acquisition and development.  I want to see better roster construction.  

 

Molitor does some stuff that really annoys me, but perhaps if a new GM makes it clear what his role is (to play and develop the future) rather than Ryan's way, then maybe we'd see some changes in how Molitor operates.  And as markos has pointed out, I don't think it's really a detriment to hiring a quality GM.

 

The only detriment that matters there is Pohlad.

Yeah, in a way I get that.  Molitor hasn't done well, but he was given spam to cook with.  The meal was never going to taste good.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 9/10/2016 at 3:16 AM, jimmer said:

Yeah, in a way I get that.  Molitor hasn't done well, but he was given spam to cook with.  The meal was never going to taste good.

 

Name your favorite manager in the league and this team still misses the playoffs by 20 games.  It's such a S*#^ fest I can't really judge anyone other than the front office.

[Kwak]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 5:44 PM, wsnydes said:

The letter also mentions how much value Polhad puts on Molitor's baseball acumen.  That's fine and dandy, but he hasn't exhibited the ability to translate that to his players or in his decision making.  So I don't see the value in that.  After watching a game just two days ago that included two major screw ups on fundamental plays, that whole notion is an insult to my intelligence.  This is rather disheartening news, even if it is just for one more season.  With the youth coming up and already here, fundamental baseball is the one thing that this team should be well situated with, and that is far from the case.  

If Pohlad values Molitor's baseball acumen that much--he should put him in the TV announcing and break-up the DickNBert show.

[Tom Froemming]

Pohlad basically said the first requirement for the Terry Ryan's replacement is that he be lovable. So, keeping that in mind, here's my perception of this whole ordeal:

 

The team had to beg Molitor to accept the managerial position. Molitor took the job under the gentlemen's agreement from Pohlad that no matter what went down with TR, the players or anybody else he would have the opportunity to coach through his contract. Basically, he got a handshake agreement that he wouldn't have his HoF reputation disgraced by being fired by his hometown team.

 

So Pohlad, being the big softy that he is, is so adamant about sticking with Molitor because he wants keep his word. I haven't even a stitch of evidence this is true, but it's the only way I can make sense of it all.

[DaveW]

Why on earth would any sucked buy Twins season tickets at this point? Over the last 5 years for 95% of the games you could have bought the exact same seats on stubhub for at least 50% a game, if not significantly more.

 

I went to the game Wed night, I snagged a pair of tickets that retail for $80+ each for $15 each.

[Jham]

Molitor is the alpha in this organization.  We chose him over Mientkiwicz who was more popular with the kids we were looking to develop.  He had successful managerial experience in the minors.  Understood the Twins way, but also had success with a more progressive organization.  

 

We selected Molitor again over his boss, Terry Ryan.  In most cases, the manager develops the system, the minor leagues implement the system.  GM finds pieces for the system, or the system finds ways to utilize the players.  

 

Our problem is systemic.  If our call-ups can't contribute, that's on Molitor.  It's clearer now than ever that this is his system, and this is his mess.

On the aside, I hated the Molitor decision from the beginning.  I think Dougie can coach.  But I mostly couldn't see a manager with no experience leading a group of inexperienced players.  He has not gotten any better with in-game decisions over 3 years.  None.  He still allows Zuke to hit when we need a HR and have power bats available, he still gives to long a leash to vets and stubbornly benches younger players who eventually prove him wrong again and again.  Meanwhile, when a young player struggles, they are consistently run out there game after game until they're sent down.  He has shown no ability to manage a rotation or a bull pen.  He overworks his pen and doesn't alter usage once guys start burning out (seeing it now with Press and Kintz).  He bunts too often.  He plays for ties too often.  And he's reluctant to make a mistake.  Almost all of his moves are reactionary rather than anticipatory.  

 

I posted in the Rosario thread that he benched Eddie the Stick for a throw that was probably the right play, and at worst, at worst, cost the team 2% chance of winning.  That's poor managing, but also shows Molitor's utter inability to play the modern game, understand percentages, and learn from mistakes.  He actually compounded the mistake by making the right play (throwing home with 2 outs) a teachable moment for Eddie and the rest of the team.  

I'm usually not so negative, but it's been 3 years.  I expected mistakes 3 years ago.  I can't abide his "playing the right way" attitude when it so often flies in the face of what the actual right play is.  

 

These little calls might only change your chances of winning a couple percent, but they add up over a 162 games.  So a 2% shift is actually pretty significant.  Rosario throwing home probably actually improved our chances of winning (before he threw) by 4-5% (although it didn't work out and cost us only 2%).  But if that situation came up every game, that's 8 wins by the end of the season.  Obviously, the chances to swing things that much don't come up all that often, but the small percentages still add up.  Consistently making moves that hurt your chances of winning, and calling guys out and benching them for making the right play is unacceptable.

 

And I know a lot of TD posters thought that was a dumb play by Rosario last night because we were taught that.  That was my initial reaction, til I saw how close the play was and realized that the game ends if he makes it.  Regardless, Twins Daily isn't paid to make baseball decisions, teach young players, or win games.  Took me 5 minutes to check and see if Rosario's throw was a smart risk or stupid risk.  A manager in today's game should know.  Or at least check and learn.  Molitor is not a manager in "today's game" but somehow, he's still our manager.

 

[The Wise One]

 

  On 9/9/2016 at 6:28 PM, mikelink45 said:

I am more interested in getting rid of all of Molitors coaches - especially pitching.  Changing them would be my priority.

How do you know he was the one who chose them?

[The Wise One]

 

  On 9/10/2016 at 5:11 AM, Jham said:

Molitor is the alpha in this organization.  We chose him over Mientkiwicz who was more popular with the kids we were looking to develop.  He had successful managerial experience in the minors.  Understood the Twins way, but also had success with a more progressive organization.  

 

We selected Molitor again over his boss, Terry Ryan.  In most cases, the manager develops the system, the minor leagues implement the system.  GM finds pieces for the system, or the system finds ways to utilize the players.  

 

Our problem is systemic.  If our call-ups can't contribute, that's on Molitor.  It's clearer now than ever that this is his system, and this is his mess.

On the aside, I hated the Molitor decision from the beginning.  I think Dougie can coach.  But I mostly couldn't see a manager with no experience leading a group of inexperienced players.  He has not gotten any better with in-game decisions over 3 years.  None.  He still allows Zuke to hit when we need a HR and have power bats available, he still gives to long a leash to vets and stubbornly benches younger players who eventually prove him wrong again and again.  Meanwhile, when a young player struggles, they are consistently run out there game after game until they're sent down.  He has shown no ability to manage a rotation or a bull pen.  He overworks his pen and doesn't alter usage once guys start burning out (seeing it now with Press and Kintz).  He bunts too often.  He plays for ties too often.  And he's reluctant to make a mistake.  Almost all of his moves are reactionary rather than anticipatory.  

 

I posted in the Rosario thread that he benched Eddie the Stick for a throw that was probably the right play, and at worst, at worst, cost the team 2% chance of winning.  That's poor managing, but also shows Molitor's utter inability to play the modern game, understand percentages, and learn from mistakes.  He actually compounded the mistake by making the right play (throwing home with 2 outs) a teachable moment for Eddie and the rest of the team.  

I'm usually not so negative, but it's been 3 years.  I expected mistakes 3 years ago.  I can't abide his "playing the right way" attitude when it so often flies in the face of what the actual right play is.  

 

These little calls might only change your chances of winning a couple percent, but they add up over a 162 games.  So a 2% shift is actually pretty significant.  Rosario throwing home probably actually improved our chances of winning (before he threw) by 4-5% (although it didn't work out and cost us only 2%).  But if that situation came up every game, that's 8 wins by the end of the season.  Obviously, the chances to swing things that much don't come up all that often, but the small percentages still add up.  Consistently making moves that hurt your chances of winning, and calling guys out and benching them for making the right play is unacceptable.

 

And I know a lot of TD posters thought that was a dumb play by Rosario last night because we were taught that.  That was my initial reaction, til I saw how close the play was and realized that the game ends if he makes it.  Regardless, Twins Daily isn't paid to make baseball decisions, teach young players, or win games.  Took me 5 minutes to check and see if Rosario's throw was a smart risk or stupid risk.  A manager in today's game should know.  Or at least check and learn.  Molitor is not a manager in "today's game" but somehow, he's still our manager.

 

We? Nope, I had no say in the matter. Pohlad likely had the say in the matter. Any GM or similarly job descripted person with a new fangled title should be aware of any team will have an owner that writes the checks and will have a say over the team.  Wilpon had to pay off his Madoff debt, Rickets had to pay down the purchase of his team. 2 large market teams with below average payrolls.  GM, President, Grand Poohbah  will not have complete control. Any large outlay likely has to get approval from the owner. Follow the money

[Ncgo4]

  On 9/9/2016 at 5:24 PM, Badsmerf said:

He won't be back. Any gm is going to mandate they hire their own guy. I wouldn't get too worried about it.

This is my biggest fear. It's potentially the reason the Twins stay inside for their new GM. No self-respecting "hot' candidate to move into a GM position would consider being handcuffed to a disaster of a team manager.

[Jham]

 

  On 9/10/2016 at 9:11 AM, The Wise One said:

We? Nope, I had no say in the matter. Pohlad likely had the say in the matter. Any GM or similarly job descripted person with a new fangled title should be aware of any team will have an owner that writes the checks and will have a say over the team.  Wilpon had to pay off his Madoff debt, Rickets had to pay down the purchase of his team. 2 large market teams with below average payrolls.  GM, President, Grand Poohbah  will not have complete control. Any large outlay likely has to get approval from the owner. Follow the money

Ok, tru.  Probably can't fire the Pohlads, and wouldn't necessarily expect the family to have more sports or baseball intellect than this forum.  So I'm going to stick with Molitor running a flawed system, incomplete system, or no system at all.  It seems like we generically try to develop players, then he just gets them and doesn't know them, trust them, or correctly play them.  Hunter came back last year and said the whole culture had changed from hard-nosed competitive winners to a bunch of guys collecting checks (paraphrasing).  Losing sucks.  At some point it's easier not to be frustrated all the time, to just accept losing, to not care.  That's my biggest fear.  Molly's lost the team.  

[Platoon]

  On 9/9/2016 at 5:14 PM, gunnarthor said:

Apparently Molitor and Pohlad are friends.  I think this is really bad and might affect possible GM candidates.  Molitor should have been fired in May.

I understand their kids schooled together and have known each other for quite a while. It's going to impact the FO hire far more than we might imagine. Why take a job, where one of the biggest decisions you make, you can't!

[Platoon]

  On 9/9/2016 at 8:03 PM, Pardon My Dinger said:

Ah, yes. I used to believe things like that too...but that seems like a very long time ago.

?........... A very long time ago? Do you mean like our last legitimate playoff opportunity?

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 9/10/2016 at 5:11 AM, Jham said:

Molitor is the alpha in this organization.  We chose him over Mientkiwicz who was more popular with the kids we were looking to develop.  He had successful managerial experience in the minors.  Understood the Twins way, but also had success with a more progressive organization.  

 

We selected Molitor again over his boss, Terry Ryan.  In most cases, the manager develops the system, the minor leagues implement the system.  GM finds pieces for the system, or the system finds ways to utilize the players.  

 

 

I think there are some inaccuracies worth pointing out here.  First, Dougie is NOT going to give you the modern game.  He's on the record as basically dismissing the value of analytics.  If you somehow think we turned down the more progressive coach in not hiring him, I think you're mistaken.  Dougie M. is about as old school as you can imagine.  

 

Secondly, I have a hard time calling Molitor the "alpha" in an organization that has had Ryan's fingerprints on it for over two decades.  Blaming him for what scouting, development, coaching, and all that just doesn't seem plausible.  Those systemic issues preceded him.  Now, he may be a product of them and complicit in them, but he isn't to blame.  That guy resigned a few months ago.

 

I'll blame him for who sits and who plays at the major league level and for other similar issues, but this is just going way too far IMO.  

[Riverbrian]

I'm not concerned at all

 

1. I've had my own personal issues with some Molitor decisions. Such as the playing time of certain players. I admit some things have left me completely frustrated but I will stay consistent and say that I won't blame a manager for thinking different than I do. A manager needs to think like he does. I personally wish he was Joe Maddon but I won't blame because he is not.

 

2. I can't imagine any interview scenario where this topic couldn't be put aside quickly.

 

Pohlad: We'd like Molitor to stay on as manager.

 

Candidate: I like Paul... He's a good baseball guy but can I ask why you feel this way.

 

Pohlad: He's under contract for another year and Terry Ryan took the blame for the teams failing... We don't believe the blame belongs to Paul. Besides we just made a change at the top. What happens to Paul was going to be the next question. We felt it best to give him a vote of confidence. We had to roll out our season ticket plans. There are numerous reasons.

 

Candidate: Fair Enough... I'll need some time to sit down with Paul and see if we can work together. If I determine that we can't... Will I be able to take the action necessary?

 

Pohlad: Of course... That's what we are hiring you for.