It is time to end the insanity

[Craig Arko]

I am not sure.

 

I assume Molitor since he fills out the lineup card. 

 

And because I'm not sure... I have a deep mistrust of everyone.

 

I know it's quite possible that there might be some front office staff who don't deserve it. I've become comfortable with actual guilt and guilt by association since I don't have the access to separate it. 

 

The missed assessments have piled up to the point that the floor is sagging and they haven't stopped since Ryan left. 

 

I actually considered giving Antony the benefit of the doubt for a moment... just to be fair... in case he was being shouted down when Ryan was here.  

 

Then Vargas got sent down with a 1.016 OPS and that moment passed. 

 

If player A is out performing player B. 

 

Play player A. 

 

If you assess that Player B should be playing better than player A. 

 

But yet Player A is playing better

 

You were wrong. 

 

If you continue to play Player A because you think he should be better than Player B even if Player B is out performing player A. 

 

That is Hubris and you work for a team that is not in contention.

 

What an amazing world it would be if everything were that simple.

[Riverbrian]

 

Insanity seems pretty harsh. "Twin can do no wrong" seems like unnecessary hyperbole. Incompetence gets thrown around more than it should. I could be put into that category, but if you'll allow me to defend myself without labeling me, I'll explain.

First off, we throw everyone in the organization into 1 category. It's clear the Pohlads, Molitor, and Terry Ryan were not on the same page. Who knows whether the scouts and minor league coaches agreed on anything. So when guys like Dave say "fire them all", I just think, "some of the guys you are firing probably agree with you..." If Molitor and Ryan and the Pohlads were not in agreement on the roster, who got their way re: which ever transaction you didn't like? How long did the power struggle go on before Ryan stepped down? Did we fire the right guy?

Second, I can't agree that playing in the majors makes a mediocre player better. More often it seems it exposes them. Most of the guys we can't wait to get rid of, were once very highly thought of prospects. Why would we want an average prospect to be part of our future? And why on earth would that be the plan? If Garver ends up being a really good player, we should adjust our plan. But he should not be THE plan. Ditto Vargas, Turner, Palka, and any other flawed prospect.

It's like we've got all these holes in the dam, we've plugged the holes as best we can, and the proposed solution is pulling the plugs and inserting younger, more optimistic tissue paper. (Dean and Albers are different, that's more like used toilet paper, legit beef there).

Lastly, we're asked to blindly cross our fingers and hope for the best by getting rid of somewhat productive players for nothing at all while inserting players with similar flaws. Why would we trade the players with no value for zero return, and hold on to the players with inflated values for less production? But I'M the insane one... It's one thing to gamble on Sano's bat or Buxton's D, another thing entirely to gamble on Sano's D and Garver's everything.

 

Brilliant Post

[Riverbrian]

 

What an amazing world it would be if everything were that simple.

 

It would be...if it wasn't for

 

 

Everything else effecting it. 

[Craig Arko]

It would be...if it wasn't for

 

 

Everything else effecting it.

 

A butterfly in China flaps its wings, and Sano strikes out four more times.

[jokin]

 

I am not sure.

 

I assume Molitor since he fills out the lineup card. 

 

And because I'm not sure... I have a deep mistrust of everyone.

 

I know it's quite possible that there might be some front office staff who don't deserve it. I've become comfortable with actual guilt and guilt by association since I don't have the access to separate it. 

 

The missed assessments have piled up to the point that the floor is sagging and they haven't stopped since Ryan left. 

 

I actually considered giving Antony the benefit of the doubt for a moment... just to be fair... in case he was being shouted down when Ryan was here.  

 

Then Vargas got sent down with a 1.016 OPS and that moment passed. 

 

If player A is out performing player B. 

 

Play player A. 

 

If you assess that Player B should be playing better than player A. 

 

But yet Player A is playing better

 

You were wrong. 

 

If you continue to play Player A because you think he should be better than Player B even if Player B is out performing player A. 

 

That is Hubris and you work for a team that is not in contention. 

 

As I have pointed out previously, this is the second time Vargas was sent down when at the time he was by far the hottest bat on the team. His May 2015 OPS was close to 1.000 when he was similarly demoted. Then in the offseason they signed an unproven and aging Korean slugger unfamiliar to MLB pitching at an already crowded position to a 4-year deal . Pretty clear that the Twins see no future for Vargas on this team.

[jimmer]

 

 

Of course people expected more, but let's be fair and remember that most of us expected the team to scuffle. Let's not pretend there were a lot of Terry Ryan accolades and pre-orders of series tickets based on the farm system. No one on TD predicted what we have going on. And what's going on has very very little to do with decisions about which prospects to promote and which cloggers to unload. Hell, if we followed the advice of ourselves, we would have started the year with Nolasco and Milone working the loading dock at Kohl's with Duffey and Berrios getting clobbered to death, so pick your poison I guess.

 

Based on other people's opinions and not my own or yours, I remain generally optimistic about our prospects. Almost every comment describing Smith's sins addressed his dreadful trades and not the farm system, which he had nothing to do with. I honestly can't recall a single commenter blaming Smith for the problems with the pipeline. Any praise directed towards the FO was based on a system that went from being ranked bottom half to top-rank status, and you can hardly call that praise unwarranted, or over the top around here. And it's possible to express optimism about the farm system without praising the FO, which is frankly what mostly happens here these days. And of course we're going to expect prospects to lead the way. What other expectation would they have? Free agency? Trading Nolasco for an ace? 

 

 

We remember things very differently.

 

I remember plenty of commentators blaming Smith for the pipeline and then praising Ryan for coming in and fixing it, making it one of the highest, if not the highest, ranked systems while ignoring that many of the prospects giving us hope were players acquired from when Smith was in the GM chair.

 

And plenty of those were also convinced, like Ryan and Pohlad, that we'd do better this year based on last year and some of the rookies having some experience behind them. Some went so far as saying the rebuild was done.

 

In any event, a lot of people from this site have been optimistic about our prospects, not just Shane. I, personally, like the prospect info Shane gives.  Unfortunately, now many are lowering their expectations of some of the ones considered, for quite some time, as our best ones.  For example, the level of play now acceptable for Buxton to achieve without being considered a disappointment now seems to be somewhere between Gomez and Maybin.  

[Riverbrian]

 

As I have pointed out previously, this is the second time Vargas was sent down when at the time he was by far the hottest bat on the team. His May 2015 OPS was close to 1.000 when he was similarly demoted. Then in the offseason they signed an unproven and aging Korean slugger unfamiliar to MLB pitching at an already crowded position to a 4-year deal . Pretty clear that the Twins see no future for Vargas on this team.

 

Replaced by Sano cleanly on July 2. 

 

I admit not worrying about it at the time because we were in contention and it was Sano who was coming up.

 

But... Yeah... Vargas was starting to heat up when he got clipped.

 

April was when he really struggled... it got him a 3 game benching. After the benching... he turned it around sharply in May with the numbers that you mention.

 

Then he got hurt May 17th.

 

He came off the D.L. in June and he started slow... Got another 3 game benching and he responded to the benching and started to heat up again. 

 

On June 26... The Twins went on a 6 game tour of Milwaukee and Cincinatti and with no DH Vargas didn't play and when the Twins returned home. Sano was called up to the Bigs and Vargas was sent down. 

 

A case could certainly be made that Vargas didn't deserve that one either. But at least the Twins had a pennant chase and Sano and moments of Vargas struggle to justify it. 

 

No such thing this year. 

 

He certainly gets kicked to the curb faster than others get kicked to the curb. 

 

 

 

[ThejacKmp]

Releasing Centeno makes no sense. He's a fine backup catcher and I don't agree withyour idea that Turner is ready for the bigs. He can't hit AA let alone the majors.

 

They should have traded Suzuki for a bucket of balls and called up JRM and Garver to accompany Centeno down the stretch. I imagine you don't suddenly want two brand new catchers new to the bigs as you try out pitchers down the stretch. Centeno can provide some continuity and figures to be in the Twins plans next year.

[Riverbrian]

Releasing Centeno makes no sense. He's a fine backup catcher and I don't agree with your idea that Turner is ready for the bigs. He can't hit AA let alone the majors.

 

They should have traded Suzuki for a bucket of balls and called up JRM and Garver to accompany Centeno down the stretch. I imagine you don't suddenly want two brand new catchers new to the bigs as you try out pitchers down the stretch. Centeno can provide some continuity and figures to be in the Twins plans next year.

Bringing up a third catcher is usually one of the first September moves made by clubs.

 

I agree that Suzuki may be important for stability and a vet hand working with a young staff but I can't help but feel that young catchers also need time working with Vet Pitchers.

 

I'd like to see Murphy and Garver up.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I guess I don't understand the current outrage. We're getting a big change, it could be total change. This is what it seems like 95% of the posters here wanted.

 

Why are we getting exasperated about decisions, poor or otherwise, that are being made in the final days of a regime that is exiting? If they were making the decisions that we wanted them to make, it would be extraordinarily hypocritical to want them all fired as well.

I don't understand why anybody is ok with poor decisions continually being made. I agree, the consensus is that change needs to be made, so why not start that now by making good/competent decisions. Why make a bad situation worse by repeating past offenses? 

 

I wouldn't say its the least bit hypocritical to wish for a new FO structure. Even if this group turned in a stellar performance over the last 1+ month does it really erase what we've witnessed since 2011? 

[DaveW]

FWIW: Meyer threw a gem for the Angels the other night in AAA and got called up to the big league club today.

This really could bite the Twins in the ass if he manages to reach even close to his potential for the Angels. Essentially we very well could have just given up a solid #2 to save a couple million bucks. (Santiago will be cut after this year hopefully)

[Mike Sixel]

How could Meyer never pitch here when sent down, and now be in the majors? Something is very wrong.