It is time to end the insanity

[Mike Sixel]

I do agree with those that are a bit confused by the roles Albers and Dean currently have.

 

I think Duffey should throw his best pitch more, and more early in the count. Other pitchers/orgs are figuring out that is a good idea.....

 

All that said.....Duffey and Berrios were terrible. I can squint and understand the decisions. But, if Allen is the best pitching coach, both those players should be here over Dean and Albers, and learning from him...If he's not the best pitching coach, um, well.

[nicksaviking]

I guess I don't understand the current outrage. We're getting a big change, it could be total change. This is what it seems like 95% of the posters here wanted.

 

Why are we getting exasperated about decisions, poor or otherwise, that are being made in the final days of a regime that is exiting? If they were making the decisions that we wanted them to make, it would be extraordinarily hypocritical to want them all fired as well.

 

 

 

[bird]

 

Yup, I truly get a kick out of the "well the org clearly knows what they are doing" defenses I see thrown out here all season.

The Twins are the worst team in baseball, over the last 5 years the Twins have been the worst team in baseball overall. This org does NOT know what they are doing, and they all will be rightly fired the minute a half way competent pres of baseball is brought in.

 

Again, I think you might be seeing through a distorted lens, Dave. There are two extremes that we hardly ever have to "get a kick out of" on here. One is a viewpoint that the only problem is a couple of minor mistakes and some bad luck, meaning there is no change required. This is a viewpoint I don't recall seeing lately. You seem to think you see it all the time. Suggesting there may be more to a decision than we know does not constitute a blind defense, and I personally get tired of this blanket characterization. The second extreme is that the organization is completely and utterly clueless. That viewpoint, which is simply idiotic, is also very rare on here, thank God.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I guess I don't understand the current outrage. We're getting a big change, it could be total change. This is what it seems like 95% of the posters here wanted.

 

Why are we getting exasperated about decisions, poor or otherwise, that are being made in the final days of a regime that is exiting? If they were making the decisions that we wanted them to make, it would be extraordinarily hypocritical to want them all fired as well.

 

Not really. They can still make good and bad decisions going forward. We can still prefer to see certain players over others.

 

I don't get why anyone that has spent the last few years here would suddenly stop hoping for specific things to change. I actually find this whole post of yours odd.

[Doomtints]

 

Not really. They can still make good and bad decisions going forward. We can still prefer to see certain players over others.

 

I don't get why anyone that has spent the last few years here would suddenly stop hoping for specific things to change. I actually find this whole post of yours odd.

 

I think the gist of his point was that the front office is probably thinking about how much of a pension they will get or whether another team might hire them and they are not thinking at all about the future of the Twins.  

 

Whereas before they were merely lost, at this point they are lost + they have personal things to worry about.  

[Thrylos]

 

 

Maybe, in the org's view, that would make more sense than plugging him in up here, who knows.

 

Maybe, but do you really trust this organization's decisions?  That's the key here...  Not what they think makes sense.

[DuluthFan]

Albers and Dean are filling their roles exactly. They are roster fillers. They are there so you don't waste development time, service time or options on a prospect before they are ready or scheduled to be promoted. The major league team is NOT the place for development, that is the role for the minor leagues.

 

If you continue to call up prospects and semi-prospects without letting them develop properly your roster will be filled with players that have promise but are not quite ready and before you know it you have multiple players at the same position with no options left and you have to choose between player one or two, neither of whom is ready to step up.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Albers and Dean are filling their roles exactly. They are roster fillers. They are there so you don't waste development time, service time or options on a prospect before they are ready or scheduled to be promoted. The major league team is NOT the place for development, that is the role for the minor leagues.

 

If you continue to call up prospects and semi-prospects without letting them develop properly your roster will be filled with players that have promise but are not quite ready and before you know it you have multiple players at the same position with no options left and you have to choose between player one or two, neither of whom is ready to step up.

 

Why is the best coach in the majors then?

 

What is "properly"?

 

Why does Joe Maddon say that development continues in the majors, then?

 

Are you  of the belief that Berrios is learning more by dominating AAA pitching, than he could learn here, with Allen?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Why is the best coach in the majors then?

 

What is "properly"?

 

Why does Joe Maddon say that development continues in the majors, then?

 

Are you  of the belief that Berrios is learning more by dominating AAA pitching, than he could learn here, with Allen?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that development doesn't happen in the majors. Most rookies struggle. It's a hard jump.  Adjusting to the majors is a developmental process by default. 

 

The problem with rapidly promoting though (if that's what is being argued) is that there are things that easier learned in the minors, and that some of those lessons don't show up in the box scores. I've got to think personally that Berrios is ready and needs a trial, but when I hear clamoring for a guy like Garver (who I like as a prospect) or Gonsalves (who is just getting a taste of AA) or even Buxton (who never really got any high minors time) is that they need that development, even if they are doing well in their current environments.

[Riverbrian]

I'll say it again. Any thought that the Twins have a log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... at this moment in time... well... it makes absolutely no sense to me. There is no log jam no matter how many times you say... Parks, Vargas, Mauer, Sano, Plouffe... Whatever. 

 

The Twins simply don't have two Major League superstars at any position. Everyone run to your Fantasy League Waiver Wire. See how many Twins Superstars are available for you to grab. 

 

When the day comes that the Twins have an actual honest to goodness log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... When that Day Comes... It will be awesome.

 

With that said... I realize that Paul Molitor is managing like he has an actual log jam. Bring Vargas back up and play him. Actually... Apologize to him and then play him. 

 

 If this is a log jam... the beavers are laughing at it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alskntwnsfn]

The biggest improvement this team can make in the next 18 months will need to come from players already in this organization (outside of the bullpen and maybe a starter or two). There aren't obvious trade chips who would drastically improve the 25-man roster.

 

This boat has been adrift a long time, it might take a couple years to repair the engine and get the rudder properly attached... even assuming we order the right parts. /metaphor

 

Another thing to keep an eye on... if we go more than a week or two after the last game before announcing the new management team I will be very scared. Given the time they've had, they should have already made the switch so the new FO can see how the club operates in-season. 

[Doomtints]

 

I'll say it again. Any thought that the Twins have a log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... at this moment in time... well... it makes absolutely no sense to me. There is no log jam no matter how many times you say... Parks, Vargas, Mauer, Sano, Plouffe... Whatever. 

 

The Twins simply don't have two Major League superstars at any position. Everyone run to your Fantasy League Waiver Wire. See how many Twins Superstars are available for you to grab. 

 

When the day comes that the Twins have an actual honest to goodness log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... When that Day Comes... It will be awesome.

 

With that said... I realize that Paul Molitor is managing like he has an actual log jam. Bring Vargas back up and play him. Actually... Apologize to him and then play him. 

 

 If this is a log jam... the beavers are laughing at it. 

 

Superstars or not ... there are only 25 (or 40 now) roster spots and only one person can play a position at a time.  There are logjams all over the infield.  The options being mostly crappy doesn't mean the logjams don't exist.  Until trades or cuts happen there isn't room to address the things that need to be addressed.

 

I agree that Vargas, Polanco, etc., should be playing first over the established roster blockers on the team.  If you're not going to send a message when the team is this bad, you're never going to send it!

[Shane Wahl]

 

Mitch Garver has 74 PAs in Rochester. It's not fair - not even a little bit - to hammer away at the Twins for their treatment of Buxton or Hicks and then demand they promote a middling catching prospect through three levels in a season.

 

Plouffe was blocking roster movement for all of a hot minute. Then he got hurt. Then Sano got hurt. Now Trevor is just kinda taking up space that no one else is really going to fill anyway. Sano is the DH and has elbow issues. Polanco is playing short. Exactly who is Plouffe blocking right now?

 

The modest upside of Kintzler is higher than the value anyone will give you for him today. You just keep that guy, hoping he turns into a middle relief guy who performs acceptably.

 

Do I really want any of these guys on the roster? No, not really. Do I care if they're on the roster for 30 more days? Not even a little bit.

 

Plouffe has been clogging things for two years. Miguel Sano is the guy who should have been playing third all year. The ripple effect involves Vargas and Park.

 

The point about Garver is to get him big league time as opposed to the AFL, which is not a great league to base judgments off of. 

 

I am for pushing guys in September when the team is going to lose 100 freaking games. That doesn't preclude AAA time for all of them in 2017.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I'll say it again. Any thought that the Twins have a log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... at this moment in time... well... it makes absolutely no sense to me. There is no log jam no matter how many times you say... Parks, Vargas, Mauer, Sano, Plouffe... Whatever. 

 

The Twins simply don't have two Major League superstars at any position. Everyone run to your Fantasy League Waiver Wire. See how many Twins Superstars are available for you to grab. 

 

When the day comes that the Twins have an actual honest to goodness log jam or blockage or anything of the sort... When that Day Comes... It will be awesome.

 

With that said... I realize that Paul Molitor is managing like he has an actual log jam. Bring Vargas back up and play him. Actually... Apologize to him and then play him. 

 

 If this is a log jam... the beavers are laughing at it. 

 

There are number of guys waiting even in the bullpens of AAA and AA that would be nice to see against MLB players instead of ST nonsense, for instance. That you don't see Plouffe as obvious roster clogging while Vargas and Park are in AAA is really not my problem. 

 

The catching situation for next year is a wide open question and yet many here don't think it is worthwhile to give Garver time in September of this year . . . 

[Shane Wahl]

This team has been garbage for 4 of the last 5 seasons and there are people here who look for moderate changes for solutions. LMAO. I have never actually used that shorthand in my life until now. The future matters and it has mattered for some years now. I don't think rushing players through AA and AAA is the answer, but when the minor league seasons are over, I hardly think that playing guys like Garver, Beresford, Walker, Palka, Baxendale, Reed, etc. is a bad thing at all. The team just added Logan Schafer, for the love of god. 

 

Yes, quicker promotion to Cedar Rapids should happen, and then the real players should move to FTM quickly. AA and AAA is where the real seasoning happens and I don't see any argument being feasible against that. 

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

Like a few others here, I spent most of the past 4 months away from TD (and away from baseball totally--I have not watched a game on TV all year).

 

Ryan et al blew it last winter--signing Park (a roster clogger) at a position that already had Mauer, Sano/Plouffe, Vargas and (possibly Walker) then putting Sano in RF and getting very little for Hicks--I don't think much of Murphy on either defense or offense. 

 

There is something wrong with the development team when major league coaches try to change mechanics of guys who are successful in minors regularly.  There is something wrong when a youngster comes up for a week (Polanco, Kepler) and goes back down without making an appearance.  There is something wrong when we have the worst defense in MLB (and it is not even close).

 

Guys like Suzuki (and a non-tendered Plouffe??) who are not coming back next year--should not be playing now--we should be going with kids like Garver and Polanco and Buxton.

 

We must have a new GM, front office, manager and coaching staff in place by mid November!!  (I would keep Jake Mauer, Dougie baseball and most of minor league staff who seem to have done well).

 

Well that's my rant...

[stringer bell]

Without question, this year's Twins team is a great disappointment. Looking at the record since 2010, it is obvious that something is wrong, or more likely many things are wrong. It is surprising, but true, that the Twins would let the two components of run suppression, pitching and defense, slide so far. They were able to stay in the middle of the pack in runs allowed with good defense and a walk-limiting pitch-to-contact pitching staff. As the tide has shifted to 95+ mph fastballs and swing and miss stuff, the Twins have been behind for years. To couple with that, they have regularly used far too many poor defenders.

 

The second pitching factor is that acquisitions just haven't panned out. Ervin Santana has been pretty good for a year and a half, but he missed half a season and is looking at middle-aged regression in the second half of his contract. Phil Hughes had an outstanding first season, but since signing an extension, he's been pedestrian or worse and now out for most of this season. Mike Pelfrey was bad for two years and fifth starterish for one season. Ricky Nolasco was alternately hurt and poor, with an occasional decent start thrown in just so that we know he shouldn't be this bad. Other guys acquired like Tommy Milone and Vance Worley haven't lived up to their billings either.

 

Finally, there has been a lack of development of great prospects. The Twins have had three much-heralded prospects debut in 2015 and 2016 and while the hope is all three will be perennial All-Stars, so far the results haven't been very good. JO Berrios has dominated AAA, but he's been brutal as a major leaguer. Byron Buxton has been rated the top prospect in all of baseball, but hasn't managed to provide enough offense to stay with the Twins. Finally, it looked last year like Miguel Sano might go directly from AA to superstardom, but since September of last year, he hasn't hit enough and he's been found wanting at two defensive positions.

 

There have been other misfires by the front office. Byung-ho Park seems to be a really bad fit with the Twins. Earlier in the bad run, the Twins were counting on Nishi to play middle infield. It is also glaring how few pitchers have developed to make a contribution to the Twins. As I said earlier, something is wrong somewhere.

[bird]

 

Maybe, but do you really trust this organization's decisions?  That's the key here...  Not what they think makes sense.

 

 

I get your point, and am obviously less distrustful than you are. I'd have to wait to see on Garver. If they say the catcher could use some time to recuperate a bit before the AFL, yes I'd trust their decision. The problem so often comes from the lack of any explanation, and from mainstream reporters who are consistently reticent to push for explanations regarding decisions like this. If we got explanations more often that made sense, maybe we'd trust this organization more.

[Riverbrian]

 

There are number of guys waiting even in the bullpens of AAA and AA that would be nice to see against MLB players instead of ST nonsense, for instance. That you don't see Plouffe as obvious roster clogging while Vargas and Park are in AAA is really not my problem. 

 

The catching situation for next year is a wide open question and yet many here don't think it is worthwhile to give Garver time in September of this year . . . 

 

Whew... I'm Relieved it's not your problem. I'd sincerely apologize if my problems became your problems. I certainly wouldn't want your problems to become my problems. 

 

I get the impression that we agree on Vargas. He didn't deserve what happened to him.

 

But... In my opinion... It's not Plouffe... It's Molitor.

 

I can listen to opinions all day long on weather Vargas will be a superstar, average, a bust or anywhere in between. But In the end... I grow weary of projections and would simply like to see them actually get the job done on the field. 

 

On August 2nd 2016. Kennys Vargas had regular playing time and an OPS of 1.016. It could be argued that Vargas was carrying the team while the Twins actually won a couple games in July. 

 

Young players are asked to step up and prove themselves and earn a job. Vargas proved himself for a month and he was rewarded with a seat on the bench when Sano became healthy because Molitor couldn't figure it out and was demoted when the Twins needed an arm... and by that point... why not... he wasn't playing anyway because Molitor benched a guy with a 1.016 OPS with a roster full of players nowhere near that and losing. 

 

Vargas was benched with a 1.016 OPS... while Plouffe was on the DL.... So... Escobar can play SS with his .687 OPS... because Molitor was... I don't know... (I'd have to ask Molly) uncomfortable with Polanco at SS (But seemingly comfortable with him at SS now).

 

 

Molitor assessed that there was no room for Vargas on this team just like he originally assessed that Polanco can't play SS and he assessed that Nunez was a backup and he assessed that Polanco and Kepler had to ride the pine game after game while the players he was playing instead were embarrassing themselves. 

 

This isn't roster clogging. This is missed assessment after missed assessment followed by more missed assessments and then repeating itself until we get the #1 draft pick. 

 

Meanwhile... The Rangers are trying real hard to actually clog their roster with actual clogs who perform and they won't take our so called Clogs who are not performing.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

At this point I really don't think there is much more I can get mad about.  They've beat me down.  

 

But every day of September that Trevor Plouffe or Joe Mauer or anyone else takes at-bats away from Vargas or Sano is inexcusable.  

[bird]

 

There are number of guys waiting even in the bullpens of AAA and AA that would be nice to see against MLB players instead of ST nonsense, for instance. That you don't see Plouffe as obvious roster clogging while Vargas and Park are in AAA is really not my problem. 

 

The catching situation for next year is a wide open question and yet many here don't think it is worthwhile to give Garver time in September of this year . . . 

 

 

If I recall correctly, Shane, you've been creating your own Top Twins prospects list for some time, and my vague recollection is that you've been overly optimistic about any number of prospects. You've also been very assertive in your opinions about promoting prospects, and some of them have turned out to be, well, not really prospective big-leaguers. This isn't meant as a criticism of you. But looking back at your own track record might serve a s a reminder that we can't simply look at the numbers and come away cock-sure about what they mean in terms of either readiness for the next step or likelihood of future success at a higher level. 

 

I know absolutely nothing about a lot of these prospects other than their stats. Unfortunately, the little that I've heard about a lot of the Rochester players makes me skeptical about whether we're really miissing much in not seeing them here in September. Walker, Palka, Vargas? Meh for me. Baxendale? Same guy as Wimmers to me. Beresford? For what? Wheeler lasted for one out tonight. Reed's not ready, or that good.

 

So for me, the exception might...might...be Garver, and I don't necessarily agree with you about the best next step (if in fact they choose one and not both now that Rochester is eliminated). The AFL  is a very valuable development experience, and I'm not so sure exposing Garver to some coaching outside of the org is a bad thing at all. Contrary to your statement, no one has really said it wouldn't be worthwhile for Garver to get a September callup. Obviously, it would be ideal to have him experience both if he's truly ready and physically fresh enough. But again, we may be over-hyping this guy, I don't know. I just know that all of us are pretty good at under-hyping some guys when they first arrive (Dozier, Perkins, Plouffe, for example) and over-hyping others (Hunter, Hicks, Berrios).

[jimmer]

 

If I recall correctly, Shane, you've been creating your own Top Twins prospects list for some time, and my vague recollection is that you've been overly optimistic about any number of prospects. You've also been very assertive in your opinions about promoting prospects, and some of them have turned out to be, well, not really prospective big-leaguers. This isn't meant as a criticism of you. But looking back at your own track record might serve a s a reminder that we can't simply look at the numbers and come away cock-sure about what they mean in terms of either readiness for the next step or likelihood of future success at a higher level. 

 

 

Seems like a lot of people were praising the FO just last year on their making of such a great farm system (one that Smith supposedly left in ruins) claiming were going to take the next step with the prospects leading the way.  So yeah, many people are ready, if not eager, to be optimistic for a variety of reasons.

[DocBauer]

Just a few thoughts after reading a series of comments:

 

1] There IS a logjam at certain positions. But it's not caused by the "jamming" players, it's the FO and or the staff creating the logjam. They are being incompetent beavers! see what I did there?) NO WAY Vargas shouldn't be playing daily, much less being sent down at all.

 

And I like the apology idea.

 

2] Unless he really is worn down, and I doubt it, and his performance wouldn't seem to indicate it, there is no reason for Garver not to be given at least a little ML time in September before heading to the AFL. He has to be added to the 40 man this year anyway. He could be a viable option behind the plate, has caught less games than he probably should have, the AFL-CIO is not a long term grind, and he still has time to rest up before ST.

 

3] I can get Dean or Albers earlier in the season to fill a temp role due to injury, etc. But at this point in the season, unless your over riding concern is Rochester and a potential playoff spot, NOW there is no excuse for guys like this starting. There ARE other options that could actually gain something from ML playing experience.

 

4] I believe Kintzler, or another veteran FA to close games next year on a last year or make good contract, is a good call for the team. With no set young closer option, you can begin to audition/prepare someone, and preserve the games that you can win. Winning helps breed winning, IMO.

 

5] In regard to a mention of Tonkin specifically, I think he did quite well for most of the season. But he's been entirely miscast as a long reliever. I think he's wearing down. He's a 1+ IP pitcher for a 6-8th inning role. Badly miscast as a long man.

[Shane Wahl]

Whew... I'm Relieved it's not your problem. I'd sincerely apologize if my problems became your problems. I certainly wouldn't want your problems to become my problems.

 

I get the impression that we agree on Vargas. He didn't deserve what happened to him.

 

But... In my opinion... It's not Plouffe... It's Molitor.

 

I can listen to opinions all day long on weather Vargas will be a superstar, average, a bust or anywhere in between. But In the end... I grow weary of projections and would simply like to see them actually get the job done on the field.

 

On August 2nd 2016. Kennys Vargas had regular playing time and an OPS of 1.016. It could be argued that Vargas was carrying the team while the Twins actually won a couple games in July.

 

Young players are asked to step up and prove themselves and earn a job. Vargas proved himself for a month and he was rewarded with a seat on the bench when Sano became healthy because Molitor couldn't figure it out and was demoted when the Twins needed an arm... and by that point... why not... he wasn't playing anyway because Molitor benched a guy with a 1.016 OPS with a roster full of players nowhere near that and losing.

 

Vargas was benched with a 1.016 OPS... while Plouffe was on the DL.... So... Escobar can play SS with his .687 OPS... because Molitor was... I don't know... (I'd have to ask Molly) uncomfortable with Polanco at SS (But seemingly comfortable with him at SS now).

 

 

Molitor assessed that there was no room for Vargas on this team just like he originally assessed that Polanco can't play SS and he assessed that Nunez was a backup and he assessed that Polanco and Kepler had to ride the pine game after game while the players he was playing instead were embarrassing themselves.

 

This isn't roster clogging. This is missed assessment after missed assessment followed by more missed assessments and then repeating itself until we get the #1 draft pick.

 

Meanwhile... The Rangers are trying real hard to actually clog their roster with actual clogs who perform and they won't take our so called Clogs who are not performing.

I get the difference here between roster clogging and poor assessment/managing. you actually make a good point.

[Shane Wahl]

 

If I recall correctly, Shane, you've been creating your own Top Twins prospects list for some time, and my vague recollection is that you've been overly optimistic about any number of prospects. You've also been very assertive in your opinions about promoting prospects, and some of them have turned out to be, well, not really prospective big-leaguers. This isn't meant as a criticism of you. But looking back at your own track record might serve a s a reminder that we can't simply look at the numbers and come away cock-sure about what they mean in terms of either readiness for the next step or likelihood of future success at a higher level. 

 

I know absolutely nothing about a lot of these prospects other than their stats. Unfortunately, the little that I've heard about a lot of the Rochester players makes me skeptical about whether we're really miissing much in not seeing them here in September. Walker, Palka, Vargas? Meh for me. Baxendale? Same guy as Wimmers to me. Beresford? For what? Wheeler lasted for one out tonight. Reed's not ready, or that good.

 

So for me, the exception might...might...be Garver, and I don't necessarily agree with you about the best next step (if in fact they choose one and not both now that Rochester is eliminated). The AFL  is a very valuable development experience, and I'm not so sure exposing Garver to some coaching outside of the org is a bad thing at all. Contrary to your statement, no one has really said it wouldn't be worthwhile for Garver to get a September callup. Obviously, it would be ideal to have him experience both if he's truly ready and physically fresh enough. But again, we may be over-hyping this guy, I don't know. I just know that all of us are pretty good at under-hyping some guys when they first arrive (Dozier, Perkins, Plouffe, for example) and over-hyping others (Hunter, Hicks, Berrios).

 

The thing is that we won't know anything about these guys in the majors if they are not called up in September, and ST is not a great way to evaluate anything for the coming year. I have been optimistic about prospects because there are guys who can fly up those rankings quickly. Pinto was the first example I used, but Polanco is another. 

 

Garver was already in the AFL. I see no reason not to have him up for the Twins in September when we have the worst team in baseball and also no clue who will be catching next season.

[Kwak]

 

Whew... I'm Relieved it's not your problem. I'd sincerely apologize if my problems became your problems. I certainly wouldn't want your problems to become my problems. 

 

I get the impression that we agree on Vargas. He didn't deserve what happened to him.

 

But... In my opinion... It's not Plouffe... It's Molitor.

 

I can listen to opinions all day long on weather Vargas will be a superstar, average, a bust or anywhere in between. But In the end... I grow weary of projections and would simply like to see them actually get the job done on the field. 

 

On August 2nd 2016. Kennys Vargas had regular playing time and an OPS of 1.016. It could be argued that Vargas was carrying the team while the Twins actually won a couple games in July. 

 

Young players are asked to step up and prove themselves and earn a job. Vargas proved himself for a month and he was rewarded with a seat on the bench when Sano became healthy because Molitor couldn't figure it out and was demoted when the Twins needed an arm... and by that point... why not... he wasn't playing anyway because Molitor benched a guy with a 1.016 OPS with a roster full of players nowhere near that and losing. 

 

Vargas was benched with a 1.016 OPS... while Plouffe was on the DL.... So... Escobar can play SS with his .687 OPS... because Molitor was... I don't know... (I'd have to ask Molly) uncomfortable with Polanco at SS (But seemingly comfortable with him at SS now).

 

 

Molitor assessed that there was no room for Vargas on this team just like he originally assessed that Polanco can't play SS and he assessed that Nunez was a backup and he assessed that Polanco and Kepler had to ride the pine game after game while the players he was playing instead were embarrassing themselves. 

 

This isn't roster clogging. This is missed assessment after missed assessment followed by more missed assessments and then repeating itself until we get the #1 draft pick. 

 

Meanwhile... The Rangers are trying real hard to actually clog their roster with actual clogs who perform and they won't take our so called Clogs who are not performing.

Are you sure it's Molitor and not the Front Office? I had the distinct impression that they (GMs) were dictating who is on the Active Roster, That Sano needed a "good look" at 3B. Then, Polanco needed a good look at both 3B and SS. Plouffe had to play because... I guess a showcase for an August trade and to not make it look as if he was "lint to be brushed-off". Oh, and Molly is to make sure Escobar plays some too! 

Vargas wasn't scape-goated, he was pushed-aside in favor of Plouffe. I think that was foolish, but entirely consistent with Twins protocol of injury doesn't cost a veteran his "job" as well as Plouffe's status with the FO.  I hope Plouffe is gone after season's end, but I won't believe it until I see it!

[Jham]

Insanity seems pretty harsh. "Twin can do no wrong" seems like unnecessary hyperbole. Incompetence gets thrown around more than it should. I could be put into that category, but if you'll allow me to defend myself without labeling me, I'll explain.

 

First off, we throw everyone in the organization into 1 category. It's clear the Pohlads, Molitor, and Terry Ryan were not on the same page. Who knows whether the scouts and minor league coaches agreed on anything. So when guys like Dave say "fire them all", I just think, "some of the guys you are firing probably agree with you..." If Molitor and Ryan and the Pohlads were not in agreement on the roster, who got their way re: which ever transaction you didn't like? How long did the power struggle go on before Ryan stepped down? Did we fire the right guy?

 

Second, I can't agree that playing in the majors makes a mediocre player better. More often it seems it exposes them. Most of the guys we can't wait to get rid of, were once very highly thought of prospects. Why would we want an average prospect to be part of our future? And why on earth would that be the plan? If Garver ends up being a really good player, we should adjust our plan. But he should not be THE plan. Ditto Vargas, Turner, Palka, and any other flawed prospect.

 

It's like we've got all these holes in the dam, we've plugged the holes as best we can, and the proposed solution is pulling the plugs and inserting younger, more optimistic tissue paper. (Dean and Albers are different, that's more like used toilet paper, legit beef there).

 

Lastly, we're asked to blindly cross our fingers and hope for the best by getting rid of somewhat productive players for nothing at all while inserting players with similar flaws. Why would we trade the players with no value for zero return, and hold on to the players with inflated values for less production? But I'M the insane one... It's one thing to gamble on Sano's bat or Buxton's D, another thing entirely to gamble on Sano's D and Garver's everything.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Insanity seems pretty harsh. "Twin can do no wrong" seems like unnecessary hyperbole. Incompetence gets thrown around more than it should. I could be put into that category, but if you'll allow me to defend myself without labeling me, I'll explain.

First off, we throw everyone in the organization into 1 category. It's clear the Pohlads, Molitor, and Terry Ryan were not on the same page. Who knows whether the scouts and minor league coaches agreed on anything. So when guys like Dave say "fire them all", I just think, "some of the guys you are firing probably agree with you..." If Molitor and Ryan and the Pohlads were not in agreement on the roster, who got their way re: which ever transaction you didn't like? How long did the power struggle go on before Ryan stepped down? Did we fire the right guy?

Second, I can't agree that playing in the majors makes a mediocre player better. More often it seems it exposes them. Most of the guys we can't wait to get rid of, were once very highly thought of prospects. Why would we want an average prospect to be part of our future? And why on earth would that be the plan? If Garver ends up being a really good player, we should adjust our plan. But he should not be THE plan. Ditto Vargas, Turner, Palka, and any other flawed prospect.

It's like we've got all these holes in the dam, we've plugged the holes as best we can, and the proposed solution is pulling the plugs and inserting younger, more optimistic tissue paper. (Dean and Albers are different, that's more like used toilet paper, legit beef there).

Lastly, we're asked to blindly cross our fingers and hope for the best by getting rid of somewhat productive players for nothing at all while inserting players with similar flaws. Why would we trade the players with no value for zero return, and hold on to the players with inflated values for less production? But I'M the insane one... It's one thing to gamble on Sano's bat or Buxton's D, another thing entirely to gamble on Sano's D and Garver's everything.

 

Very well said.  Might disagree on trading a guy like Dozier (though that has more to do with him having 2 years left, an ample replacement, and this team not being competitive in 2017)... but excellent post

[Riverbrian]

 

Are you sure it's Molitor and not the Front Office? I had the distinct impression that they (GMs) were dictating who is on the Active Roster, That Sano needed a "good look" at 3B. Then, Polanco needed a good look at both 3B and SS. Plouffe had to play because... I guess a showcase for an August trade and to not make it look as if he was "lint to be brushed-off". Oh, and Molly is to make sure Escobar plays some too! 

Vargas wasn't scape-goated, he was pushed-aside in favor of Plouffe. I think that was foolish, but entirely consistent with Twins protocol of injury doesn't cost a veteran his "job" as well as Plouffe's status with the FO.  I hope Plouffe is gone after season's end, but I won't believe it until I see it!

 

I am not sure.

 

I assume Molitor since he fills out the lineup card. 

 

And because I'm not sure... I have a deep mistrust of everyone.

 

I know it's quite possible that there might be some front office staff who don't deserve it. I've become comfortable with actual guilt and guilt by association since I don't have the access to separate it. 

 

The missed assessments have piled up to the point that the floor is sagging and they haven't stopped since Ryan left. 

 

I actually considered giving Antony the benefit of the doubt for a moment... just to be fair... in case he was being shouted down when Ryan was here.  

 

Then Vargas got sent down with a 1.016 OPS and that moment passed. 

 

If player A is out performing player B. 

 

Play player A. 

 

If you assess that Player B should be playing better than player A. 

 

But yet Player A is playing better

 

You were wrong. 

 

If you continue to play Player A because you think he should be better than Player B even if Player B is out performing player A. 

 

That is Hubris and you work for a team that is not in contention. 

 

 

[bird]

 

Seems like a lot of people were praising the FO just last year on their making of such a great farm system (one that Smith supposedly left in ruins) claiming were going to take the next step with the prospects leading the way.  So yeah, many people are ready, if not eager, to be optimistic for a variety of reasons.

 

Of course people expected more, but let's be fair and remember that most of us expected the team to scuffle. Let's not pretend there were a lot of Terry Ryan accolades and pre-orders of series tickets based on the farm system. No one on TD predicted what we have going on. And what's going on has very very little to do with decisions about which prospects to promote and which cloggers to unload. Hell, if we followed the advice of ourselves, we would have started the year with Nolasco and Milone working the loading dock at Kohl's with Duffey and Berrios getting clobbered to death, so pick your poison I guess.

 

Based on other people's opinions and not my own or yours, I remain generally optimistic about our prospects. Almost every comment describing Smith's sins addressed his dreadful trades and not the farm system, which he had nothing to do with. I honestly can't recall a single commenter blaming Smith for the problems with the pipeline. Any praise directed towards the FO was based on a system that went from being ranked bottom half to top-rank status, and you can hardly call that praise unwarranted, or over the top around here. And it's possible to express optimism about the farm system without praising the FO, which is frankly what mostly happens here these days. And of course we're going to expect prospects to lead the way. What other expectation would we have? Free agency? Trading Nolasco for an ace? 

 

Specifically, however, I don't expect Garver to necessarily arrive here in September, play a couple dozen games, and have that experience catapult him into a starter's role for 2017. And when people were up in arms about Berrios languishing in AAA, I suggested he'd probably look overwhelmed in MLB and perhaps bashing the FO for that decision was misguided. We want Gonsalves to advance, we want ABW to be called up, we want Burdi to start the season in the BP (last year), someone even harped about Kiriloff's placement in E-Town. So when those things don't happen, it's either because the stupid Twins don't know enough to promote them, or, if they falter, because the stupid Twins don't know how to develop them.

 

Hey, the system's pretty good. It's going to take awhile still. Some guys will flame out. Not every promotion decision and roster decision is cut and dry. Maybe we dish out too much praise and too much criticism, and to the wrong people, right?