Article: Twins Send Six To Arizona Fall League

[jokin]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 9:11 PM, Winston Smith said:

It's likely not about finding room but, right or wrong, about burning up an option year for a few weeks of play in Sept. 

Is playing 10-12 games in Sept worth burning an option year?

 

I would hope they're long-past worrying about burning one of a soon-to-be-26 year old's option years... so hopefully, wrong. I mean, the club needs as many data points on their projected 2017 catching situation as possible.

 

Is there a legitimate reason that Garver can't both get a call-up and play AFL ball?

Edited August 31, 2016 by jokin

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 9:11 PM, Winston Smith said:

It's likely not about finding room but, right or wrong, about burning up an option year for a few weeks of play in Sept. 

Is playing 10-12 games in Sept worth burning an option year?

 

He'll be 26 next year.....by the time they are out of options, he'll be 29 or 30. I don't think it matters in this case. I do  think you could maybe squint and justify that, maybe. It would not be what I'd do, not given the catchers they have.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:35 PM, Winston Smith said:

Does anyone know if adding a player in Sept to the 40 man and bringing them up burn up an option year?

 

found an answer: Once a player has been placed on a team's 40-man roster, a team has 3 option years on that player. A player is considered to have used one of those three option years when he spends at least 20 days in the minors in any of those 3 seasons.

 

This probably why they only bring up guys already on the 40 man, just a guess.

 

yep, and it is why the only ones added to the 40 man for Sept are ones that have to be added this offseason anyways.

[jokin]

 

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:59 PM, howieramone2 said:

Our woes this season have absolutely nothing to do catching. Do you have any math or science to back that up?

 

You mean besides the 20% CS rate?

Or allowing the highest number of Wild Pitches?

Or ranking 26th in Catching Defense by Fangraphs?

Bottom quintile in assists?

2nd to last in Putouts?

Bottom quintile in DRS and rSB?

Edited August 31, 2016 by jokin

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:24 PM, Platoon said:

Who's the third catcher?

 

Murphy.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:01 PM, Vanimal46 said:

At what point are players not allowed to attend the Arizona Fall League? Clearly once they make it to the majors.... But is there an age or years of minor league experience limit that disqualifies other people?

 

They change the rules from time to time but it was changed a few years ago to something like "less than one year of service time." 

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:29 PM, Tom Froemming said:

Here's a link to the AFL roster rules.

 

Sounds like the main constraints are a player must have less than one year of MLB service time and teams can only send one player from below Double-A. 

 

It used to be one player from below AA. A few years ago, they changed that to two players... And now it must have changed to three, I guess.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 9:11 PM, Winston Smith said:

It's likely not about finding room but, right or wrong, about burning up an option year for a few weeks of play in Sept. 

Is playing 10-12 games in Sept worth burning an option year?

 

Why would a September call require "burning an option year?" By September, they've either already burned the option year or they aren't going to get optioned. Nothing to worry about there.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 9:20 PM, jokin said:

I would hope they're long-past worrying about burning one of a soon-to-be-26 year old's option years... so hopefully, wrong. I mean, the club needs as many data points on their projected 2017 catching situation as possible.

 

Is there a legitimate reason that Garver can't both get a call-up and play AFL ball?

 

Nope... He can do both. 

[jokin]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 10:23 PM, Seth Stohs said:

Nope... He can do both. 

 

That's what I suspected. Thanks. Then it makes perfect sense to call Garver up when Rochester finishes their season. (DFA Centeno?)

Edited August 31, 2016 by jokin

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:35 PM, Winston Smith said:

Does anyone know if adding a player in Sept to the 40 man and bringing them up burn up an option year?

 

found an answer: Once a player has been placed on a team's 40-man roster, a team has 3 option years on that player. A player is considered to have used one of those three option years when he spends at least 20 days in the minors in any of those 3 seasons.

 

This probably why they only bring up guys already on the 40 man, just a guess.

 

In order to use an option year, a player has to be optioned. If they added Palka or Garver to the 40 man roster on September 6th (day after AAA season ends), they would be added to the 40 and recalled to the Twins. They wouldn't be optioned this year, so no option year would be used. 

 

I used those two as examples because they need to be added to the 40 man roster in November, so there's less reason to not call them up.

 

For Gonsalves, he doesn't have to be added until after the 2017 season, so it makes the world of sense not to call him up. Not because of the options, but because he isn't going to make the OPening Day roster, and then he'd be taking a 40 man spot at the expense of someone who they could lose in the Rule 5 this offseason. 

[Platoon]

  On 8/31/2016 at 10:28 PM, Seth Stohs said:

In order to use an option year, a player has to be optioned. If they added Palka or Garver to the 40 man roster on September 6th (day after AAA season ends), they would be added to the 40 and recalled to the Twins. They wouldn't be optioned this year, so no option year would be used. 

 

I used those two as examples because they need to be added to the 40 man roster in November, so there's less reason to not call them up.

 

For Gonsalves, he doesn't have to be added until after the 2017 season, so it makes the world of sense not to call him up. Not because of the options, but because he isn't going to make the OPening Day roster, and then he'd be taking a 40 man spot at the expense of someone who they could lose in the Rule 5 this offseason.

 

Fortunately we don't have any like that now! (I apologize in advance, I could not help myself) .

[ashbury]

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:29 PM, Platoon said:

I was not playing nice, Murphy wasn't forgotten.

Missed the sly sense of humor. Well played.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:21 PM, bluechipper said:

Only the Twins would send two 25 year old guys to the AFL. Now, Melotakis is a fine choice, but it's just like them to send a couple old guys over there.

 

Fun take... but...

 

21 of the 30 teams have at least one player from their organization who was born in 1991 (or before) - sorry, I didn't feel like doing math, so instead of calculating 25 years old, just went with 1991. 

 

Minnesota, Cleveland, San Diego and Seattle each have two players born in 1991 or earlier. 

 

The Rockies and White Sox have 3 players who were born in 1991 or before. 

 

The Marlins and Reds each have four players born in 1991 or before...

 

So... no, the Twins aren't sending older players than other teams... Also, my quick scan of the rosters shows that most players were born in 1992 and 1993, which makes sense since most players are in Hi-A, AA and some AAA, so the average age of the prospects is 22-24. 

 

Just for more fun...

 

The White Sox have two guys that were born in 1990. The Cardinals, Rockies, Orioles, and Blue Jays have a guy born in 1990. The Marlins have a guy who was born in 1989. The Giants are sending a guy born in 1986. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 10:50 PM, Seth Stohs said:

Fun take... but...

 

21 of the 30 teams have at least one player from their organization who was born in 1991 (or before) - sorry, I didn't feel like doing math, so instead of calculating 25 years old, just went with 1991. 

 

Minnesota, Cleveland, San Diego and Seattle each have two players born in 1991 or earlier. 

 

The Rockies and White Sox have 3 players who were born in 1991 or before. 

 

The Marlins and Reds each have four players born in 1991 or before...

 

So... no, the Twins aren't sending older players than other teams... Also, my quick scan of the rosters shows that most players were born in 1992 and 1993, which makes sense since most players are in Hi-A, AA and some AAA, so the average age of the prospects is 22-24. 

 

Just for more fun...

 

The White Sox have two guys that were born in 1990. The Cardinals, Rockies, Orioles, and Blue Jays have a guy born in 1990. The Marlins have a guy who was born in 1989. The Giants are sending a guy born in 1986. 

 

facts, Seth is using facts to make a point!

 

made my day, sir, made my day.

[Mr. Brooks]

  On 8/31/2016 at 9:11 PM, Winston Smith said:

It's likely not about finding room but, right or wrong, about burning up an option year for a few weeks of play in Sept.

Is playing 10-12 games in Sept worth burning an option year?

Adding Garver and calling him up on September won't burn an option this year.

 

If he is sent back down next year, it would burn one then. But, that is unavoidable either way, because Garver HAS to be added to the 40 man this winter anyways.

[Norwood Inc.]

Some a y'all gonna be laughing at this thread when Garver is an All-Star and plays into his 40s, like Fisk, and Pudge.

[ewen21]

 

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:43 PM, Platoon said:

Some on here wonder about the negativity lately. And it is admittedly increasing exponentially.

Is it all "negativity" or is it just people talking about what is going on?  The complaints are mostly warranted and sometimes it provides comic relief.  Some people laugh at the absurdities of life as a means to get by.

 

I think the reaction to the "negativity" is as bad or even worse in some cases.  That's just me, though

[clutterheart]

No Granite? Weird. He deserves to be rewarded for his breakout season

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 9/1/2016 at 12:51 AM, clutterheart said:

No Granite? Weird. He deserves to be rewarded for his breakout season

 

His reward is hie gets his offseason... And, his bigger reward may come in November with a 40-man roster spot... maybe.

[Rosterman]

 

  On 9/1/2016 at 1:00 AM, Seth Stohs said:

His reward is hie gets his offseason... And, his bigger reward may come in November with a 40-man roster spot... maybe.

Granite may be tapped to play winter ball somewhere else. The AFL isn't the only place players go to play more.

[AZTwin]

With Nick Gordon being there I will be assure to attend. I was first to note Buxtons strikeout woes a couple years ago in AFL and will hopefully have good news to report on Gordon. Look for the updates. I'll try to get some video as well

[Otto von Ballpark]

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:35 PM, Winston Smith said:

Does anyone know if adding a player in Sept to the 40 man and bringing them up burn up an option year?

 

found an answer: Once a player has been placed on a team's 40-man roster, a team has 3 option years on that player. A player is considered to have used one of those three option years when he spends at least 20 days in the minors in any of those 3 seasons.

 

This probably why they only bring up guys already on the 40 man, just a guess.

Seth answered above, but the key detail here is that it is not simply "20 days in the minors" -- it is 20 days on optional assignment. And players not yet on the 40 man are not on optional assignment, so any prior days in the minors for them this season do not count toward that number.

 

Berrios used an option this year, because he got added to the 40-man then optioned. But getting added to the 40-man and recalled does not use an option (like Duffey in 2015).

[Otto von Ballpark]

  On 8/31/2016 at 8:45 PM, bluechipper said:

Looks like Nick Gordon will be double-play partners with Yoan Moncada. That should be a fun team to watch. Austin Meadows is on the team too.

Although Moncada's AFL season could be cut short:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/red-sox-promote-yoan-moncada.html

 

Sounds like they might be having him focus on 3B work too.

 

I remember Kubel appearing in September 2004 for the Twins and our playoff series, then going to the AFL to gruesomely injure his knee...

[FormerMinnasotan]

No Stephen Gonsalves? I mean the main reason he won't hit 160-170 innings this year was being in Ft Myers 6 man rotation far too long. I would have guessed the Twins would work on getting him an extra 20 or so innings before the end of the season. As discussed, there is no way Gonsalves gets called up to the Twins now. That's fine, but to only increase Gonsalves' innings to somewhere between 8-10 innings from last year is pretty pathetic for one of our best pitching prospects (he had pitched 134 innings last year). Let me guess...Gonsalves will also start next year in Chattanooga as well even though he mastered AA ball. Twins way you know...

[twinssouth]

Garver going to AFL doesn't really surprise me. I'm not defending the Twins here but he's been competing for catching playing time with Turner at AA and then Murphy in AAA, so to get more catching reps, he gets sent back to the AFL. I don't agree with this but I can see it being the case.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 9/1/2016 at 2:15 PM, twinssouth said:

Garver going to AFL doesn't really surprise me. I'm not defending the Twins here but he's been competing for catching playing time with Turner at AA and then Murphy in AAA, so to get more catching reps, he gets sent back to the AFL. I don't agree with this but I can see it being the case.

 

Looking at it that way, it makes a ton of sense. Turner and Murphy need playing time too behind the plate. That's certainly fair. There are four catchers on the Surprise roster, so Garver will catch probably twice a week, and DH a game or two a week. That's an extra 10-14 starts behind the plate, which is a positive, to be sure.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Of course, Garver could easily get some starts behind the plate in Minnesota in September, in addition to AFL starts in October...

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 9/1/2016 at 5:47 PM, spycake said:

Of course, Garver could easily get some starts behind the plate in Minnesota in September, in addition to AFL starts in October...

 

I maintain this hope....

[Deduno Abides]

Can someone explain why Zach Granite isn't going? I don't get the treatment. If he were a 29 year old minor league free agent who'd been DFA'd by a couple of teams, he'd get more consideration, even though he's probably better today than Shane Robinson, for one comparison.