Article: Have The Twins Mishandled Mitch Garver?

[Tom Froemming]

It has already been an interesting year in terms of how the Twins have deployed their players defensively. From Miguel Sano moving all over the place, to Jorge Polanco going from no reps as a shortstop in the minors to the everyday guy there on the big club, there have been some decisions that have been worthy of questioning.Well, the questioning seems to be never-ending during a down season, and I'd like to pile on and add Mitch Garver's usage to the list of head-scratchers in the organization. If the Twins believe Garver can be a starting catcher, they sure have a funny way of showing it.

 

While in Chattanooga, fellow 2013 draftee Stuart Turner held a slight advantage over Garver in terms of reps behind the plate. Since his promotion, Garver holds a slight playing time advantage over John Ryan Murphy, but it's only eight starts vs. seven. Overall, Garver has played 107 games this year but has caught in just 54 of those contests.

 

This is nothing new. In 2014, on his way to being named Twins Daily Minor League Hitter of the Year, Garver caught 63 of his 120 games. Last year, the split was less extreme at 77 games caught and 127 total games. With just 12 games left in the Red Wings' season, when it's all said and done, Garver will have caught right around 200 games over the past three seasons. Sounds like a decent amount until you compare him to other backstops.

 

A few of the most recent catchers to establish themselves as big league regulars are Philadelphia's Cameron Rupp, Miami's J.T. Realmuto and Cincinnati's Tucker Barnhart. Over their final three full years in the minors, each of them totaled over 280 games caught. Even prized Yankee prospect Gary Sanchez, who has always been more highly regarded for his bat, eclipsed 90 games caught in three separate MiLB seasons.

 

It seems these days you can't have a discussion about catching without also talking about concussions. It's worth noting Garver has been placed on the DL twice for concussions, once in June of '14 and again this May. There is no such thing as a concussion that isn't a serious injury, but in both cases Garver was able to get back in the gear in a matter of weeks, so those injuries can't account for the lost reps behind the plate.

 

Garver has kept his bat in the lineup by playing first base or DH, but his skills at the plate have never been questioned as much as his ability to play behind it (but we'll get to more on that later). With that being the case, you'd think the team would go out of its way to have Garver catching as much as possible.

 

Not buying the playing time being an issue? Okay, then let's go into the "Free Mitch Garver" portion of the discussion. Garver was called up to Rochester on Aug. 9, but what took so long? There's a valid argument to be made that Garver should already be on the big league club.

 

I understand that Turner was drafted ahead of Garver and started his career a level ahead. It's also valid to point out that the team invested resources into Murphy, who is on the 40-man roster, and they want to give him every opportunity to play his way out of his season-long slump. But why has Garver remained so low on the catching totem pole when his performance has been stellar and he's actually older than both Murphy and Turner?

 

At 25-years-old, I'm not sure if Garver can really even be called a prospect anymore. It's time to see what he can do, no matter what that means to Murphy, Turner, or even Kurt Suzuki or Juan Centeno.

 

Garver had a down year in 2015, but followed it up with an impressive showing in the Arizona Fall League. He had posted an above average OPS for the Southern League each month this season, ending his time in Chattanooga with a .257/.334/.417 slash line. Combine that with an excellent start in Rochester (.364/.404/.455) and you have a guy who has trended up for around 12 months now, and the glove work is catching up with his offense.

 

On Sunday's pregame radio broadcast, interim GM Rob Antony went out of his way to compliment the strides Garver has made with the mitt, and the numbers back it up. The University of New Mexico product has also thrown out an impressive 50% of base stealers this season and has received positive reviews on his pitch framing ability.

 

So ... if the bat was never in question and the numbers show he's been a phenomenal defensive catcher this season, then what gives? I suppose it's entirely possible the front offices does not, in fact, view Garver as an everyday catcher. The way he's been used over his career certainly makes you wonder.

 

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[SarasotaBill]

Concussions are not just a one or two week item.

 

Each successive concussion needs more time to recover.

 

Obviously they thought more highly of Turner coming out of the draft.

 

I think it's hard to know the true impact of concussions has had on his playing time behind the plate the past two years.

[Intramural Legend]

So the Twins took a guy who was not a highly regarded prospect, turned him into a decent one, but have mishandled him?

[Comrade Bork]

Do other fan bases generally feel that every move their team makes is wrong, or is it just us??

 

Would've liked to see Garver splitting time with Zuke earlier this year. Here's hoping for September.

[Tom Froemming]

 

Concussions are not just a one or two week item.

 

Each successive concussion needs more time to recover.

 

Obviously they thought more highly of Turner coming out of the draft.

 

I think it's hard to know the true impact of concussions has had on his playing time behind the plate the past two years.

I had considered this, but my thought was if he had lingering or consistent concussion symptoms they would have completely shut him down again, or at least kept him from catching for an extended time. But you are correct, it is certainly possible.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I was going to say, he's moved up the system fairly quick.  This really isn't a case of mishandling. His time at DH was also right after an injury. He's not 40 man eligible this offseason, and he was a 9th round pick. He wasn't all that good last season either in A+ ball, so it isn't like he tore the place up and got held back. 

[Tom Froemming]

 

So the Twins took a guy who was not a highly regarded prospect, turned him into a decent one, but have mishandled him?

Touche

[wsnydes]

 

I had considered this, but my thought was if he had lingering or consistent concussion symptoms they would have completely shut him down again, or at least kept him from catching for an extended time. But you are correct, it is certainly possible.

Once you've had a concussion, it's also easier to get another one.  They could be limiting his risk exposure to more of them.

 

I'm not suggesting that they've handled him correctly or not, but I think this is a part of the discussion.

[ThejacKmp]

It's driven me crazy to watch them promote Turner and Garver in lockstep up until this year. It made too much sense to get those guys in different levels and let them both catch more frequently - it's not like the Twins had so many catchers this would be tough to do and Turner struggled at the plate so being left behind wouldn't be the worst thing. I get that maybe it's nice they learn together but a farm system should have guys at every level who can teach catchers.

 

I don't worry so much that they were too slow with Garver but the lack of catching time is just hard to fathom. Very frustrating.

[Mr. Brooks]

I was going to say, he's moved up the system fairly quick. This really isn't a case of mishandling. His time at DH was also right after an injury. He's not 40 man eligible this offseason, and he was a 9th round pick. He wasn't all that good last season either in A+ ball, so it isn't like he tore the place up and got held back.

 

Yes, Garver does have to be added to the 40 man this off-season, or be exposed to the Rule V draft.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

A few things ...

 

1. He hasn't been mishandled. I fell like his promotions through the system have fit with his performance.

 

2. Because of the Hicks trade, Ryan was going to push JR Murphy as the successor to Suzuki. The subsequent dumping of John Hicks reinforced Ryan's misguided, self-induced Murphy preference.

 

3. All that said, he needs to be a September call up. I'm hoping he gets the Kepler treatment. September call up, invitation to ST to compete for a roster spot. Starts back in AAA where he hopefully rakes, then is called up in May or June and sticks.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Yes, Garver does have to be added to the 40 man this off-season, or be exposed to the Rule V draft.

 

I keep getting him confused apparently.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Do other fan bases generally feel that every move their team makes is wrong, or is it just us??

Would've liked to see Garver splitting time with Zuke earlier this year. Here's hoping for September.

 

I often wonder the same thing... I assume other team's fans think their front office, even if they're generally considered good, do nothing right.

[Seth Stohs]

I hve a lot of thoughts on Garver. Do I think he's been mis-handled? No. In fact, if I were asked whether he or Turner have been mis-handled, I'd say Turner. Here are a few random thoughts on the subject:

 

- Garver  was a senior sign. While they obviously really liked him, the fact they could sign him for WAY below slot because he had no leverage is an unfortunate reality of the current slotting system. 

 

- Pushing Turner straight to Ft. Myers wasn't really fair to him. While he is great behind teh plate, his offense wasn't ready for the Florida State League. And then they pushed him right to AA the next year. (oh wait, the Twins move prospects too slowly...)

 

- Garver wasn't as highly regarded and went to the Midwest League. He missed time twice that season with concussions. (the 2nd was right at the end of the season)

 

- Garver's come a LONG way defensively. While pitchers have always enjoyed working with him, there were some mechanical things that simply had to be worked on. Evaluators have finally started saying into this season are just now saying that he can be a major league catcher defensively. (Which is good and I would argue a very good positive for the system)

 

- Keeping them on separate teams made some sense earlier, but obviously Garver needed to move up to AA this year, and obviously Turner needed to stay there. Both are still thought of as potential big leaguers and needed to play. Mientkiewicz did a nice job of getting them both time behind the plate. Garver earned his playing time at DH and 1B because of his bat. Also, having him able to play a second position can be valuable. 

 

- I still don't know that the Twins (or scouts/evaluators) see Garver as a full-time catcher in the big leagues. I think if he can catch half of the Twins games next year, that would be great! If he earns more playing time, he'll get it. 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see anything wrong in their handling of Garver, so far. If he's not up in September, and catching 1/3 of the time, then I'll question their handling of him.

 

But up until now? I think they've handled him well, and it's clear he has worked hard to get better. When he makes the majors, it will be a nice success story.

[IaFan1]

His bat has always been better then Turner's. With his strides defensively he has become a higher thought of prospect.  With our history of concussions, I have no problem with him getting a lighter duty at Catch. The Twins FO has done just fine handling this young man's future.

[Tom Froemming]

 

Do other fan bases generally feel that every move their team makes is wrong, or is it just us??

I'm sure fans of other teams would react similarly if their squad lost 90 games five times in six years.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It's driven me crazy to watch them promote Turner and Garver in lockstep up until this year.

Actually, they didn't promote them in lockstep.  2016 was the first time Garver and Turner played at the same level, and it really couldn't be avoided -- neither one was ready for AAA to begin the year.  In fact, it appears the Twins went out of their way to push Turner a level ahead of Garver.

 

Now, I could see a case for divvying up the catching reps different while they are both in AA this year, and promoting Garver to AAA before August, but those are relatively minor items in the grand scheme of things.

 

As long as one or both of them are getting notable reps in Minnesota for September, it will be hard for me to complain.

[Darius]

So the Twins took a guy who was not a highly regarded prospect, turned him into a decent one, but have mishandled him?

So you'd give the credit to the Twins, who have a long history of turning highly regarded prospects into nothing, only to see them flourish elsewhere? Are you implying that you think he would have been unsuccessful in other organizations, and the Twins did something special? If so, you have a more positive outlook than I....neither necessarily being right or wrong. Just not the direction I'd lean.

 

Maybe he'd be an all star in another organization. Maybe not. Maybe he'd be even better if handled differently, and the system isn't maximizing his potential. I think that's the point. There are many scenarios under which he could be a good player, but not get recognized as a prospect (lack of exposure, playing through injuries, late bloomer physcially, etc etc).

 

I'm certainly not going to say the Twins did something special, given their track record. Id be more inclined to give the credit to the player for succeeding despite the Twins system.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Actually, they didn't promote them in lockstep.  2016 was the first time Garver and Turner played at the same level

Correcting myself -- the first time since rookie league in 2013.

 

The larger point still stands, Garver and Turner were not teammates during the 2014 or 2015 seasons.

[jimbo92107]

As Seth noted, Garver wasn't regarded as highly as Turner in that draft, so he started lower. Raw defensively. 

 

Mainly your contention rests on reps behind the plate. There are a few counter arguments.

 

First, the minors is for learning. To learn how to block a curve in the dirt, you can have a coach or a machine fire ball after ball in front of you as you work on sliding and blocking.

 

Second, sharpening your in-game catching skills does not require catching anywhere near 100 percent of games. Like blocking balls in the dirt, you can learn those skills by discussing it with coaches outside of games.

 

Third, minor league games can beat up your body just as much as anywhere else. Foul tips to the mask hurt you just as much in AA as in the MLB. Dividing playing time gives all your catchers a chance to stay reasonably fresh. 

 

Fourth, unless you are clearly a star on the rise, there is no reason to bias playing time for a guy like Garver over Turner or any other minor leaguer. If you look like a young Pudge or Mauer, that's one thing. The Twins don't have anybody like that in the minors. 

 

Garver's playing time clearly reflects Twins system policy of splitting playing time pretty evenly for catchers. It also may indicate that they don't have anybody good enough to race through the system. Mitch Garver appears to be a possibly good, but probably not great catching prospect. If he keeps playing well, he should get a September call-up. Let us not burden the young man with overly high expectations. 

[howieramone2]

 

So you'd give the credit to the Twins, who have a long history of turning highly regarded prospects into nothing, only to see them flourish elsewhere? Are you implying that you think he would have been unsuccessful in other organizations, and the Twins did something special? If so, you have a more positive outlook than I....neither necessarily being right or wrong. Just not the direction I'd lean.

Maybe he'd be an all star in another organization. Maybe not. Maybe he'd be even better if handled differently, and the system isn't maximizing his potential. I think that's the point. There are many scenarios under which he could be a good player, but not get recognized as a prospect (lack of exposure, playing through injuries, late bloomer physcially, etc etc).

I'm certainly not going to say the Twins did something special, given their track record. Id be more inclined to give the credit to the player for succeeding despite the Twins system.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any that have happened in the last 14 years. Do you have specific examples you can share with the board?

[Tom Froemming]

 

As Seth noted, Garver wasn't regarded as highly as Turner in that draft, so he started lower. Raw defensively. 

 

Mainly your contention rests on reps behind the plate. There are a few counter arguments.

 

First, the minors is for learning. To learn how to block a curve in the dirt, you can have a coach or a machine fire ball after ball in front of you as you work on sliding and blocking.

 

Second, sharpening your in-game catching skills does not require catching anywhere near 100 percent of games. Like blocking balls in the dirt, you can learn those skills by discussing it with coaches outside of games.

 

Third, minor league games can beat up your body just as much as anywhere else. Foul tips to the mask hurt you just as much in AA as in the MLB. Dividing playing time gives all your catchers a chance to stay reasonably fresh. 

 

Fourth, unless you are clearly a star on the rise, there is no reason to bias playing time for a guy like Garver over Turner or any other minor leaguer. If you look like a young Pudge or Mauer, that's one thing. The Twins don't have anybody like that in the minors. 

 

Garver's playing time clearly reflects Twins system policy of splitting playing time pretty evenly for catchers. It also may indicate that they don't have anybody good enough to race through the system. Mitch Garver appears to be a possibly good, but probably not great catching prospect. If he keeps playing well, he should get a September call-up. Let us not burden the young man with overly high expectations. 

Personally I feel there's a big difference between game situations and practice drills/meetings/one-on-one instruction with coaches. In my mind this is especially true when it comes to things like game calling and managing pitchers' personalities.

 

If it's the Twins' strategy to have catchers split time on the farm, I'd imagine they are in the minority, even when it comes to fringe prospects. Tucker Barnhart was a 10th round pick and he caught over 90 games on three separate occasions in the minors.

 

Judging by Seth's opinion, which I view in high regard, maybe I'm crazy. But I just think it's so strange that if Garver's biggest question was always his defense they wouldn't be having him catch as much as reasonably possible.

[Taildragger8791]

As Seth noted, Garver wasn't regarded as highly as Turner in that draft, so he started lower. Raw defensively. 

 

Mainly your contention rests on reps behind the plate. There are a few counter arguments.

 

First, the minors is for learning. To learn how to block a curve in the dirt, you can have a coach or a machine fire ball after ball in front of you as you work on sliding and blocking.

 

Second, sharpening your in-game catching skills does not require catching anywhere near 100 percent of games. Like blocking balls in the dirt, you can learn those skills by discussing it with coaches outside of games.

 

Third, minor league games can beat up your body just as much as anywhere else. Foul tips to the mask hurt you just as much in AA as in the MLB. Dividing playing time gives all your catchers a chance to stay reasonably fresh. 

 

Fourth, unless you are clearly a star on the rise, there is no reason to bias playing time for a guy like Garver over Turner or any other minor leaguer. If you look like a young Pudge or Mauer, that's one thing. The Twins don't have anybody like that in the minors. 

 

Garver's playing time clearly reflects Twins system policy of splitting playing time pretty evenly for catchers. It also may indicate that they don't have anybody good enough to race through the system. Mitch Garver appears to be a possibly good, but probably not great catching prospect. If he keeps playing well, he should get a September call-up. Let us not burden the young man with overly high expectations. 

 

It seems tough to believe that you don't have to catch much to learn how to play catcher. You can practice and chat with coaches all you like but there's little replacement for live reps, and experiencing the game situations and pressures.

 

Garver is going to finish the year with maybe 60 games above A ball at one of the toughest defensive positions, where he was already raw at to begin with. How is it that he's supposedly ready to handle the big league staff with so little advanced-level experience? Unless he made huge progress he's going to need another year just to accrue maybe a typical full season's worth of starts above A ball.

 

I don't know what the reasons are for not getting him more starts, but it's hard to buy that he's going to be ready for the majors until he gets more game time behind the dish.

[Jack Goin]

 

I'm certainly not going to say the Twins did something special, given their track record. Id be more inclined to give the credit to the player for succeeding despite the Twins system.

So no credit for turning O'Rourke into a usable reliever, Rogers (11th round), Tonkin (30th round), Dozier (8th round senior), Polanco, Kepler, Rosario, Vargas (undrafted free agent sign & couldn't catch the ball at 1B when he reported to the GCL), Rosario, Sano? 

Garver and Turner didn't go over the heat maps, catching reports, and video alone and make themselves better catchers. They did it with the help of Minor League staff. Guys like Mientkiewicz, Joel Lepel, Jeff Smith, etc..

I get the struggles of Berrios & Buxton stand out like a sore thumb but you have to be a little objective here. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

So no credit for turning O'Rourke into a usable reliever, Rogers (11th round), Tonkin (30th round), Dozier (8th round senior), Polanco, Kepler, Rosario, Vargas (undrafted free agent sign & couldn't catch the ball at 1B when he reported to the GCL), Rosario, Sano?

 

Some of these, you might not want to count before they hatch.

 

Also, might not want to lead with O'Rourke, the guy who cleared waivers a couple months ago and could be a minor league free agent in a couple months.

 

Also, while this looks like a decent list in absolute terms, how is it in relative terms? I would guess every team in baseball has found and developed a handful of guys who have produced as much as O'Rourke, Tonkin, and Vargas to date. And a guy like Sano probably would have made MLB no matter what organization he signed with. From results it seems pretty obvious that the Twins have not done well at producing MLB talent above their peers recently, hard to argue with that.

[gunnarthor]

 

Some of these, you might not want to count before they hatch.

Also, might not want to lead with O'Rourke, the guy who cleared waivers a couple months ago and could be a minor league free agent in a couple months.

Also, while this looks like a decent list in absolute terms, how is it in relative terms? I would guess every team in baseball has found and developed a handful of guys who have produced as much as O'Rourke, Tonkin, and Vargas to date. And a guy like Sano probably would have made MLB no matter what organization he signed with. From results it seems pretty obvious that the Twins have not done well at producing MLB talent above their peers recently, hard to argue with that.

Almost every team that can't buy their way out of it goes through losing cycles.  The Twins 4 losing seasons, one winning and another losing isn't that unusual.

[jimbo92107]

 

It seems tough to believe that you don't have to catch much to learn how to play catcher. You can practice and chat with coaches all you like but there's little replacement for live reps, and experiencing the game situations and pressures.

 

Garver is going to finish the year with maybe 60 games above A ball at one of the toughest defensive positions, where he was already raw at to begin with. How is it that he's supposedly ready to handle the big league staff with so little advanced-level experience? Unless he made huge progress he's going to need another year just to accrue maybe a typical full season's worth of starts above A ball.

 

I don't know what the reasons are for not getting him more starts, but it's hard to buy that he's going to be ready for the majors until he gets more game time behind the dish.

Who says Garver is going to make it? That's the problem, nobody knows. There is no obvious, outstanding prospect at catcher in the Twins system. That's why Garver didn't get the lion's share of games behind the dish. You want great defense? Call up Turner, he's far better than Zuki or Centeno right now. You want better offense? Garver, but his defense is still developing. No catcher in the organization has both great offense and defense right now. Nobody.

 

The Twins don't have a great prospect at catcher right now. Fact of life. They waived Suzuki and nobody claimed him because he can't throw out a base runner anymore. Centeno can hit a little, throws pretty good, but he lets dirt balls bounce all over the place, which is awkward for a team with a bunch of soft-tossing sinker ballers. 

 

Garver may get a September call up, and that's fine, but don't be shocked if he's not ready. As you said, 60 games isn't many at catcher. For whatever reason, the Twins haven't had much luck developing catchers lately. Or pitchers. Or shortstops...

[TheLeviathan]

I think they've done perfectly fine with Garver.

 

And that's good, because I like to think this team could find a way to order at Chick-fil-a and wind up with a 5 day old Big Mac at this point.

[mlhouse]

Do we know if Mitch Garver can hit major league pitching?

 

The answer, obviously, is no, we do not know.

 

And, with that answer shows that the Twins have mishandled Mitch Garver.

 

Garver isn't a 20 year old kid being "rushed" to the big leagues. He is 25 years old already. Why wait until the guy is 26-27 years old before we get him up to the big leagues.

 

It might be different if a) the Twins had quality catching prospects ahead of him or the team has been playing for something these past 5 years. Especially in this situation it is important to "rush" him to the majors as soon as possible. THe reason for this is that the Twins need to be able to evaluate players as quickly as possible. If we wait for Garver the "Twins Way" and let him play a full year at AAA, he will be a 27 year old rookie before we even start to evaluate.