Article: Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

[James Richter]

Since his TJS, Liriano has been dreadful just as often as he's been outstanding. 122 G, 638.2 IP - these are not trivial sample sizes. Over that time, he averages out to 4.69 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, and fewer than 6 IP/GS. We should be thankful that anybody was crazy enough to give up anything at all for two months of that.

[Top Gun]

TR is a ....... joke!

[MidwestMeat]

Liriano probably accepts arb and the Twins are stuck w an even more untradeable player. The comp pick was far from guaranteed. Seriously, it's unlikely the Twins even offer arb. That said, not even exactly happy w the trade. This spells the end for casilla, methinks

The way Escobar's stats look up to this point It would seem he won't ever have more than a cup in Minneapolis if that.....especially with Rosario coming through. I agree with some of you though...I would rather trade for a few guys that can at least stock the farm and give those managers a little consistency than let him go for nothing after he sucks again and loses what little trade value he had.

 

Frankie will most likely no hit the twins...but then he will absolutely s*** the bed in the playoffs and the universe will be right again.

[Top Gun]

I expect Liriano to win 20 games next season!

[old nurse]

He just had a stretch of 10 good games in a row.

You missed the point. What is Ryan going to say yo the media? He is going to play up his return. He is not going to badmouth Liriano and what came back. I guess I should have put a few quotation marks around it. But then I would have someone complaining Ryan never said that

[Boom Boom]

TR in the Strib this morning "...I'm not going to say (Hernandez) pitches to contact."

 

That's OK, TR, you didn't have to.

[Thrylos]

Here is a quick analysis with mini profiles and scouting reports for Escobar and Hernandez. This could be better than what it looks, but still do not like it very much. Big part of it is that he was traded to the Sux.

[killebrew]

The Twins weren't going to get much for Liriano. That's a given.

 

What I don't like about this deal is it shows that Ryan is looking for players who could possibly help next year over higher upside guys who are farther away. The real future of this team is mostly in the low minors right now, and it would be better to enhance that group (especially with some pitching) than to put bodies on the field in 2013.

[Blake]

Alexi Casilla

Should it have made a difference where they traded him? They are not competing for the division this year. Liriano could have been in Chicago next year regardless of where he was traded.

 

As for value, a C pitcher and a C hitter are pretty equivalent to a sandwich pick. There are questions whether it would have been wise to offer Liriano the 12.5 million so the Twins might have received nothing.

 

If Escobar is the real deal with the glove, he will be valuable while under team control. Guys that can pick it at SS are not that easy to find for league minimum. I guess it is a plus that Hernandez is left handed. Both are young.

 

Six weeks ago Liriano had no value with absolutely no chance the Twins would make a qualifying offer. Getting two C prospects for a pitcher who has had so many poor outings since the last two seasons can't be seen as a bad trade. Does anyone think Ryan turned down better offers? Let's spend the 12.5 million elsewhere next year and we have what looks like two guys who will have major league careers. What do we lose? The remaining Liriano starts in 2012. Nothing else.

Additionally, does anyone believe Matt Capps, Carl Pavano, Tsuyoshi Nishioka and Alexi Casilla will be returning next year?

 

Granted, Nishioka isn't in the Majors, but, doesn't that clear another spot on the 40 man?

 

If Casilla and Nishioka are gone after this year, it only makes sense to fill one of the roster spots with an infielder.

 

And, I suspect there is a chance Blackburn is gone after this season. At some point, the team is just going to have to cut ties and eat some salary.

[Shane Wahl]

Ok, hopefully trade time is done. This is just terrible. Trading within THE DIVISION is one thing, but doing it and getting next to nothing in return for a guy who at least is 50% very good, is absolutely ridiculous.

[jctwins]

Not the move I was hoping for, but I assume they don't make this deal unless Coop can pinpoint something he knows he can fix.

 

I just had a chilling vision of Escobar turning into Punto 2.0 and tormenting the Sox for years.

For the win on WSI.

[Shane Wahl]

We don't need a 5th starter type and a middle infielder with low upside.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm going back to sleep and when I wake back up, somebody had better made this right again.

[Texas Mike]

As stated, most of you view the 2006 Francisco Liriano as the current Francisco Liriano. He has been awful since with a rare good-to-great start, and the gentleman who posted the 122 post-TJ starts with a 1.42 WHIP shows me that Frankie is JAG material. In addition, what is the functional objection that he was traded to a "divisional rival"? We are not in contention and there is no guarantee that Liriano signs with the Sox next year. The return is ho hum for a ho hum pitcher who is 6 years removed from a very good season. This is neither a good or a bad move, and inserting "they could have gotten X" for him pretends that someone actually offered X for him. Highly doubtful that TR would say, "no I'm not going to take very good X, and instead take wto middling prospects instead." They only valid point here regards the trades impact on the 40 man roster as the team moves forward.

[Rosterman]

Sadly both have to be added to the 40-man roster and stay on the 40-man roster. And one needs to contribute in the next two years, the other the next three. So we trade Frankie for two players that we have to immediately protect, but may not be as needed as others already in our system that may need protection. Go figure.

[John Bonnes]

John, you missed it.

Escobar was 10th by Baseball America entering the 2012 season.

He was also 5th for the Sox entering the 2011 season

He was also 19th entering the 2010 season.

Still suxx no matter where he was listed

Dont we already have this guy, just names Pedro Florimon in AAA??

What BA list are you looking at? Is there another one? I don't see him here:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2012/2612801.html

[DaveW]

Who else can't wait until we face liriano for the first time though? That should be fun!

[DaveW]

Also it should be noted that perhaps at the end of the day there just wasn't much interest in Frankie. I mean look at who the angels gave up for grienke. The market was pretty weak this year it seems. Though I still wish they would have gotten him to stick around on a 2 year deal, maybe he will get homesick and resign in the offseason? One can hope...

[minn55441]

I expect Liriano to win 20 games next season!

I'll take some of that action. You put up $100 I'll give you my house.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

You guys crack me up. Is there ever going to be any situation that will make you happy?

 

The Twins decided Liriano was not going to be back next year and they weren't going to offer him the qualifying offer, so they made the best deal they felt they could. Who cares where he went this year. The Twins are not going to win the division this year. If they kept him through this year, he could still go to the White Sox (see Jesse Crain). They could trade him somewhere else and he could still end up in the division (see AJ Pierzynski).

 

You guys all called for Liriano to be dumped after the horrible start, sat around waiting for the other shoe to drop while he was pitching well, and now that he's traded, complain we didn't get enough for him. You are already complaining about the 40 man roster for next year?

 

Everybody needs to look at the reality of the situation and chill out. We got a utility infielder and middle reliever, both young and under team control. You were expecting Miguel Cabrera?

[jorgenswest]

What BA list are you looking at? Is there another one? I don't see him here:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2012/2612801.html

I am pretty sure he was looking at their 2012 prospect handbook which is usually the first source. In it he was ranked 10th this year. Lists are fluid as trades are made.

[JA]

Congrats Jon! You did a great job pointing out the negative.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

You guys crack me up. Is there ever going to be any situation that will make you happy?

 

The Twins decided Liriano was not going to be back next year and they weren't going to offer him the qualifying offer, so they made the best deal they felt they could. Who cares where he went this year. The Twins are not going to win the division this year. If they kept him through this year, he could still go to the White Sox (see Jesse Crain). They could trade him somewhere else and he could still end up in the division (see AJ Pierzynski).

 

You guys all called for Liriano to be dumped after the horrible start, sat around waiting for the other shoe to drop while he was pitching well, and now that he's traded, complain we didn't get enough for him. You are already complaining about the 40 man roster for next year?

 

Everybody needs to look at the reality of the situation and chill out. We got a utility infielder and middle reliever, both young and under team control. You were expecting Miguel Cabrera?

Best line on here--admit I skimmed some of the 8 pages.

 

TR and rest of Twins mgt. knew they couldnt risk offereing Frankie $12mill next year--he could take it--he should take it. So they got 2 AAAA players--maybe one will improve maybe not. They dumped Frankie. The Twins werent gonna get a compensation pick. Maybe Frankie gets 3 years $20 million from some fool. Maybe not. Not the Twins problem

[snepp]

Maybe Mr. "Won't Necessarily Pitch to Contact" will turn into Diamond 2.0.

[deanlambrecht]

Kudos... Perfect line to describe the situation.

 

It seems that no one likes their X mas present.

 

The Twins were not going to offer him 12 million for the comp pick because he might take it.

 

His trade value was about to hit the wall at the trade deadline. If no one offered a better package of players. You have to take the deal or you get nothing. And then we have a handful of starts in a Twins uniform(the farewell tour) on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs... Even if we score 30 runs this weekend against the Indians.

 

With Span you can set the price high and keep him if the price isnt paid... With Morneau you can do the same because they are coming back. Under contract... It says so... With Willingham the same. Liriano was gone... There was almost no possibility of him playing for the Twins in 2013.

 

Liriano wasn't going to be offered a contract next year. They can't spend that kind of money on someone who melts down as often as he has and believe me the Twins have had a front row seat for everyone of those meltdowns.

 

I'm disappointed... I had dreams of a boatload of pitching prospects coming back but to be indignant over the deal is to assume that the Twins turned down something larger to make this trade.

 

Does anyone believe that TR turned down Terehen and Delgado to make this deal instead. C'mon... can we give him the benefit of the doubt that he looked at what was out there and chose the best package.

Exactly this.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Maybe Mr. "Won't Necessarily Pitch to Contact" will turn into Diamond 2.0.

That's the only glimmer of hope I can take away from this trade. Unfortunately, the chance of striking gold twice on that type of player is pretty slim.

[jctwins]

Who else can't wait until we face liriano for the first time though? That should be fun!

Yeah, interestingly Floyd is still listed as the probable for today, and the White Sox are here Monday, so I am guessing he stays home today and joins the club tomorrow here in Minnesota.

[Mike Sixel]

I also meant to post I do not care he was dealt inside the division. It does not matter at all to the outcome for the twins.

[snepp]

That's the only glimmer of hope I can take away from this trade. Unfortunately, the chance of striking gold twice on that type of player is pretty slim.

Unfortunately, having looked at his batted ball profile, he doesn't have the magic sink that Diamond does.

[Riverbrian]

Here's what I did in my own head... I was pretty sure all along that Frankie had little value but I allowed myself to become hopeful that he had acquired some value because he strung some good starts together. I built up the expectation in my head because I was hopeful and I was reading his name in the rumor mill... Orioles scouting him... Angels scouting him... Blah Blah Blah... I think if some of you step back and look at it. A majority of you did the same thing. You allowed yourself to be hopeful for a nice return package.

 

What happened in this deal was reality. No matter what anyone thinks of the return on Frankie. We got something and we were about to watch the clock expire on Frankie because he was not coming back for 2013 unless we sign him for a reasonable deal as a FA. I doubt the Twins want to go that direction but who knows.

 

We got something and now it's up to these two new players to prove themselves going forward. If they don't... Well... They will be like the thousands of others who didn't make it but I'm willing to bet that the Twins like the chances of at least one of these guys.

 

The Twins need to start fresh with Pitching next year and move forward. I'd like the moving forward part to go as quickly as possible but you can't force other teams to give you players because you want them.

 

I've always believed that Span is the player that has the most value in a trade and I still do. Span is under control so TR doesn't have to move him at the trade deadline if the deal isn't right. If Span would have been traded to the White Sox for this pair... We could be a little more legimate in our indignation.

 

Frankie is a pitcher that can help a team in a playoff run or he could take that team completely off the rails. Any team that traded for him was grasping at straws. Rolling the Dice... Flipping the Coin... If I was a GM.... I wouldn't give up a lot for a guy that can potentially kill your chances just as easy as he provides a boost.

 

Frankie was gone in two months. Gone.

 

We still have a couple more days of trade deadline. Hang on everyone.