Article: Twins Trade Nolasco, Meyer, Cash To Angels For Hector Santiago

[jimbo92107]

I gradually changed my mind about Meyer's potential over the past couple years. Used to think he might be a front-line starter. Now it's looking more and more like he's got too many physical problems and possibly some emotional hangups keeping him from making it. 

 

Nolasco's deal works well for both parties. He's finally healthy and pitching pretty well, so I expect the usual thing to happen - pitcher leaves Minnesota and suddenly throws like an all-star. On the other hand, Twins get a new lefty starter with fairly good numbers. Twins sure like lefty starters for some reason...

[FunnyPenguin]

Come rain or come shine, I'm just pumped things are actually happening!!

[Kwak]

+1.

 

Hopefully by week's end we will stop reading about Meyer.

[Monkeypaws]

Here is one interesting tidbit I discovered 5 minutes ago.

 

Nolasco was leading the Twins in innings pitched this season with 124, 4 more than innings eater Santana, as well as Santiago.

 

Never would have guessed that.

 

Still, hard to comprehend a good AL team wanting to add him, unless Allen is utterly useless.

 

Good barometer on the "Twins way," with our 2 most underperforming pitchers going elsewhere.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Monkeypaws

[Darius]

I like the move, I guess, but it doesn't do a whole lot for me. Not the highest on Santiago, but it could be worse (and has been in the Twins rotation for years). Really just a mediocre/bad (generous, considering the FIP numbers) immovable rotation object replacing a slightly worse one (by immovable I mean from the rotation while on the team). The Meyer/prospect swap looks pretty close to 1:1, at best.

 

I don't really care about dumping anyone's salary. There isn't a salary cap, and I could care less about the Pohlad's bottom line. If the money is put to good use next year, then I may start to care. Nolasco's salary should be a non-issue. It's kind of disappointing that fans of the team have been conditioned so thoroughly to think that it is. Or maybe people are confused with the NFL.

 

It doesn't net a highly significant amount next year, but do they actually use the money for anything? Do they use it well, or hand out another terrible contract? Im not convinced we won't hear the same company lines next spring ("no takers on our generous offers," and "we think we'll compete with what we have."), and If that's the case, the trade effectively does nothing.

 

Overall, I like that they're finally trying some things. It's refreshing. But, let's not get out of hand and say it's because Ryan is gone, or start a celebration over the turning of the worm. Its baby steps in the right direction, but I still need to see more. Too jaded at this point for it to move the meter.

[Winston Smith]

 

There's an awfully good chance that Nolasco gets to exercise a player option in 2018 @ $13M. (400 IP over 2016 and 17).

Not if anyone in the Angels front office has half a brain.

[KirbyDome89]

 

The deal is effectively Alan Busenitz for Alex Meyer.  (I really don't care about the mediocre starter swap/salary relief.)

 

Could I ever like this deal?   No way.

 

Meyer was really mess up with the Twins and maybe did not have a chance to achieve his potential.  On the other hand, my hope was that the 2017 Twins after the regime change would have broken camp with Meyer on top of their rotation, because he is the only guy in the organization with ace potential and because I have seen him pitch at that level.

 

Now if the Twins new GM goes out in the off-season and trades for an ace (like one in the top 10-20 names in this list), I might change my mind.

Can't say I share the same amount of disdain for the trade but I'm a little torn on losing Meyer, especially since he never had a real chance to pitch for the major league team. I will say though, this seems to be the strongest case you can make against the move. Most of the talk has been money. The team has a lot more flexibility with the non-tender option at seasons end. Financially the move makes sense (whether they allocate those funds to baseball related moves is another story,) and they received a better (if only slightly)  starting pitcher. Really it all boils down to how much you hate to see Meyer go and how you view Busenitz. 

[bird]

 

Call me impressed. Any word on whether these dealings were Ryan's? My guess is a little of Ryan and a little of Antony.

 

 

It was all Antony, but he DID read Billy Smith's notes on how he single-handedly snared Miguel Sano.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm bummed to lose Meyer. I still think he ends up as a top of the rotation stater.

But, Pohlad decided that likely wasnt going to be here when he mandated that Mollie come back next year. Molitor was never in a million years going to use Meyer.

So, I guess I can't blame Antony, but I still hate to see him go.

[TheLeviathan]

Only 4M?  Pfft, this is an easy win then.  If we are paying nothing for Nolasco next year, this trade is a definite win.

[insane16]

Who is the 5th Twins starter after Santana, Santiago, Gibson and Berrios?

I have read that Duffey and Milone are both headed for the pen to join Kintzler, May, Pressley, Tonkin, Rogers and Boshers

[Tibs]

The only way you don't like this trade is if you are extremely biased towards Alex Meyer. Nolasco has been nowhere near league average in his time with the Twins and in that same time Santiago has been just below league average or above league average.

 

You are kidding yourself if you think Meyer would be in the Twins rotation to start next year or at any point next year. At this point Meyer is either a bust or needs a change of scenery. Him pitching anywhere near his potential with the Twins next season after basically two lost seasons is quite the long shot.

[Boom Boom]

RA: What's it gonna take for you to take Nolasco?

 

Rally Monkey: You gotta take Santiago.

 

RA: Ugh. Would you take Meyer too?

 

RM: Ick. Would you kick in some cash?

[DaveW]

To me it looks like a trade involving three change of scenery type pitchers, and Santiago.

 

I don't think it's as great of a trade as people say, but it's a pretty solid trade overall. Santiago at least can be a innings eater 4/5 for us, and he will be pitching for his first real "big" deal in free agency. Ideally he pitches 200 IP and a 3.40 era and the twins can either trade him, or offer him arb and get a draft pick (or one more year)

 

Meyer could reach his potential, but I doubt he would have done that here. Nolasco could salvage his career with a nice 1.3 seasons in LA as well.

 

Smart but not great trade IMO. I give it a B

Edited August 2, 2016 by DaveW

[Thrylos]

 

The only way you don't like this trade is if you are extremely biased towards Alex Meyer.

 

Just out of curiosity (and I am not picking on you, by any means.)  Have you ever watched Alex Meyer pitch other than his grand total of 3 games with the Twins?

 

Just because of that "biased" thing...

Edited August 2, 2016 by Thrylos

[drivlikejehu]

 

Just out of curiosity (and I am not picking on you, by any means.)  Have you ever watched Alex Meyer pitch other than his grand total of 3 games with the Twins?

 

Just because of that "biased" thing...

 

Meyer's ability is pretty much beside the point. He is not physically capable of pitching for any length of time, which also has had the effect of disrupting/delaying his development. Unless you're a James Andrews pupil that has reviewed Meyer's most up-to-date medical records, your observations have very little to do with Meyer's value.

Edited August 2, 2016 by drivlikejehu

[jorgenswest]

The money is a wash. Busenitz is an organizational player. The Twins might project 1 win better with Santiago in 2017. Beyond that they are both gone. Meyer is the only player who has the possibility of making an impact for his current team in 2018. This is the kind of trade losing teams like the Angels should be making. If Meyer works out, they win big. If not, they lose the difference of Santiago vs Nolasco in 2017.

 

The way the Twins win this trade is if Santiago has a fairly good half season next year and they are able to deal him before he hits free agency. It could happen but Angel stadium is a much more friendly pitchers park. It is possible but I don't think it is as likely as Meyer being a valuable reliever for the Angels.

[Thrylos]

 

Meyer's ability is pretty much beside the point. He is not physically capable of pitching for any length of time, which also has had the effect of disrupting/delaying his development. Unless you're a James Andrews pupil that has reviewed Meyer's most up-to-date medical records, your observations have very little to do with Meyer's value.

 

Let's revisit this in 2-3 years...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Keep in mind, folks: it is $4 mil next year, plus $2.4 mil this year. $6.4 mil total the Twins are sending with Nolasco.

 

Assuming they tender Santiago (and I would be surprised if the didn't), they are not saving any money right now.

[kab21]

This is a cash neutral deal so I don't get too excited about the dumping Nolasco part other than he can't pitch for the Twins anymore. The Twins could have just DFA'd him.

 

I am bummed at the deal because of the mismanagement of Meyer. But this is where the Twins were with him. He has been hurt and he completely imploded last year so it wasn't all the Twins fault but there was wasted potential and the Angels could potentially hit big on this trade. Of course I expect to see the 'I told you so's' to come after Meyer has 10 great games. I don't see any way that Meyer can pitch 3 full seasons without a major arm surgery.

 

Overall though I like this trade though. The rotation next year is deplorably awful. Getting Santiago reduces the chances that the Twins go out and sign another aging 4/50M pitcher next year. He could potentially be dealt next year for a better prospect but I really hate the idea of adding more declining pitchers to long term contracts. Busenitz is another potential reliever for the Twins. Nothing special but depth.

[ashbury]

Getting Santiago reduces the chances that the Twins go out and sign another aging 4/50M pitcher next year.

This puts in a nutshell an important principle. The signing of Nolasco (and ESan) was a reflection of the failure of the farm system to produce starters. In a better world, we develop the Nolascos (along with hopefully better outcomes)ourselves and get their young cheap years, and we dispose of them in one manner or another before they get expensive.

 

Teams that are sellers at the deadline should be acquiring young talent, and improving flexibility for the coming season. Flexibility comes in multiple ways - salary size, contract length, 40-man congestion, positional oversupply, players exhausting their minor league options or arb years. Talentwise, this deal involves a risk regarding Meyer but otherwise is close to a wash, and salarywise likewise; but it does add some flexibility and for that reason looks like a good thing.

[DaveW]

Also Santiago is a LHP, that also checks the "LHP for the rotation" box

[Mauerpower]

Great trade. The twins got 7 years younger, a better starting pitcher, and a prospect that is on the rise instead of slumping.

[jokin]

 

Not if anyone in the Angels front office has half a brain.

 

Money isn't really a factor in Anaheim.

[EddieMatthews]

Some postings express hope that Santiago will be an innings eater.  Doubtful based on his recent performance.  He is averaging less than 6 innings per start over the past two years.  This is likely due to his high WHIP.  He leads the AL in walks this year and led the AL in HRs given up in 2015.  

 

Best hope is that he can help the Twins starting pitching staff to tread water until someone else steps up.  Santana, Gibson, Santiago, Berrios, Hughes (?), fill in the blank.  There's no ace in that hand, nor any deuces.  A lot of three-spots and hope.

 

Maybe with some of the youth potential the new Twins GM can lure an ace into the fold next year.  

[Jordan1212]

We just did the unthinkable got rid of nolasco and got someone like Ervin santana who is not much better but geez Terry Ryan would of been to stubborn to let Alex Meyer go based on span trade we ought to give Antony some props he isn't tied to any of these players great to see.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I think the only way you can dislike this deal is if you have a high opinion of Alex Meyer. I have probably been one of his biggest supporters, but I still like this deal. 

 

Meyer hasn't pitched since May and this year will be about a wash. Next year is his last option year. He showed a lot of hope in those three starts in April in Rochester, and I hope that's real, but

 

a) it pretty much HAS to be real for this trade to not make sense and

there is a real question if he's damaged goods at this point.

 

Without those three starts, he's Pat Light, the other guy the Twins acquired today in the Abad trade, only with one less option year to put things together and maybe a higher ceiling. 

 

Got to say that I have the high opinion of Meyer, but I might the only one not liking this for a change.  I won't argue getting rid of Nolasco, but I'd have rather DFAd him and just kept Meyer... oh well.  That has sailed.

 

Now that said, if Antony did anything, it was ensure that whomever has the next GM role likely keeps him around.  I wasn't a fan of this trade, bet I really liked the other two, and in reality even though I hated giving up Meyer, he just ridded the Twins of a really bad contract for what will likely be a guy with tons of potential who never gets there due to injury and control issues.  Doesn't make me a fan, b/c I hate giving away upside on a rebuilding team, but it does rid the team of a really bad contract.  It does not however, open up any spots in the rotation.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I will note this though, if he performs to his career, Santiago gets flipped next year this time or possibly offered arb for a pick (assuming that is still in the next CBA).  Both could potentially have value too, even if Meyer is successful.  I'm not sure I like this deal as I don't like the potential they gave up, but they certainly improved the short term position of this team, taking a rotation spot away from a vet for 2018 when guys like Stewart, Gonsalves, Jay, etc. are likely pushing for one.

[DocBauer]

I have to confess, I don't like losing Meyer. I love his potential and believe he may yet be a late-blooming, high quality pitcher. And I will continue to root for the guy. And no, I don't always think the Twins have handled him properly.

 

But I have to say, while encouraged by his first 3 appearances this season, and very hopeful, a bit of the shine I saw on Meyer has worn off. It's possible the way the Twins handled him earlier this year could have contributed, though I don't know we can say with any firm conclusion that was a contributing factor. It may just be his size, length and motion are simply not conducive to long term health or success. But if I'm an Angels fan, I have to be happy my team got him.

 

But losing Nolasco, and gaining Santiago, younger and LH, was a definately a win. Just looking at that part of the equation, the Twins pulled out a win. He may be nothing special, but he's solid. He gets some SO. He's controllable for another year, and could also be another flip candidate. And, oh yeah, younger and LH! (Bears repeating). Overall, his numbers are better than Nolasco the past couple of years.

 

Add in another strong bullpen candidate and another OK pen option, and I think the Twins did well. And as has been pointed out, these past couple of moves probably keep the Twins from overpaying for another run of the mill veteran FA SP next year. And that also is a good thing.

[mikelink45]

I am too baffled to comment.  Why would anyone want Nolasco and Meyer?  What am I missing?  And they give us players who are not injured and actually perform in exchange.  Is Rob Antony related to anyone here?