Article: Twins Trade Nolasco, Meyer, Cash To Angels For Hector Santiago

[DocBauer]

I also have to say, I don't think the Twins are done yet. I believe Kinzler and Suzuki can and will still be dealt over the next week or so. Unsure about Milone, but it could happen.

 

Plouffe is a different story. Hurthey so much of the season, even healthy after a rehab assignment, I'm not sure there's enough season left to show he's ready to contribute to anyone to make a trade worthwhile for anyone.

[rochester]

It's really a shame to those naysayers who criticize Meyer's time with the Twins. I would agree with the those who have said "he wasn't given a chance" - he wasn't. The time he sat between Rochester & Houston was enough to mess with anyone's head. You get stale. You get rusty. This kid has the right stuff to be an ace, for his sake, I hope he has success in California and the Twins maybe will realize how they jerked around a top prospect. We hate seeing him gone from Rochester and supported him more here than the guys did in Minnesota. Good luck to you Alex, your team and friends in Rochester hate seeing you go but wish you the best.

[Jordan1212]

Hey hey what do you know berrios just had a quality start. It's about time we have someone that throws 95 in the rotation. It actually helps when not all 5 throw 89-91 mph sinkers. And we got a guy with a splitter in trade for abad that is definitely not a Terry Ryan type guy so...

[Rosterman]

Meyer needed to come on board the Twins roster fulltime next year. And that wasn't going to happen. So assuming he would be ready come spring training, the decision still has to be made of starter or relief pitcher. At that point, he may be bypassed by a bunch of starting prospects, and definitely passed by a bunch of promising bullpen arms. So he is one of those guys who had a chance last year and this year and...blew it. He's basically being replaced by Pat Light who might have a little more time on the 40-man roster, but also could be running out of options himself. I doubt the Red Sox would've continued to 40-man him next season.

 

Santiago needs to pitch well to end the season to score bigger in arbitration. Then next year, he was to be a star if he wants a decent free agent contract, which could be a plus if the Twins wish to flip him. Of course, the Twins could always do something like offer him 3-4 years of outrageous salary and an option in the off-season to keep him around.

 

I feel bad no one blew us away on taking Santana of our hands and am disappointed if Anthony and Co. feel the Twins will really be hard-lined competitors and would rather keep his massive contract on the books that not. And looks like no one really wanted Suzuki. It was the time to grab a free agent before the waiver deadline when a lower running team could possibly grab him. And the cost wouldn't have been that much. And if the Twins refused anything for a pending free agent...they that is a black mark in the bad-Anthony category.

 

Plouffe coming back soon will be a dilemma. Polanco back to the minors? Buxton on the DL? We drop a pitcher? Can anyone actually tell me why Plouffe would be worth his last year arbitration contract next season and what the odds are that any other team would also pay that? And why the excitement of Tommy Milone as longman in the bullpen and Duffy back in the rotation. I would almost rather see Duffy as a longman to see if he can work the Rogers magic, as the Twins hopefully prep Trevor May for a look at a rotation spot next season before we really realize what we got in return for Span and Revere.

 

The Twins will need some 40-man spots. These acquisitions makes it unlikely the Twins will add anyone they don't have to add to the 40-man sooner rather than later, or even take a gander at someone like Reed or Stewart in September...or any number of other guys that will play out another season in the minors in 2017 before getting a shot later that season with the big team that IS rebuilding.

 

I like the deals, but nothing compared to other teams and doubt that they will set us afire into a competitive 2017.

[insane16]

 

Alex Meyer...has the right stuff to be an ace, for his sake, I hope he has success in California and the Twins maybe will realize how they jerked around a top prospect. We hate seeing him gone from Rochester and supported him more here than the guys did in Minnesota. Good luck to you Alex, your team and friends in Rochester hate seeing you go but wish you the best.

We got Alex Meyer in the Span trade who enabled us to off-load Ricky Fiasco. That was worth more than Denard Span will ever be worth again. God Bless Span, God Bless Meyer, God Bless that trade and God Speed Ricky Fiasco.

[sorney]

If Meyers truly has a *shoulder issues* and aren't agent influenced, great deal.  Shoulder issues are the death of pitchers.

[beckmt]

I wish Alex Meyer all the best with the Angels.  Santiago is young enough to possibly be given a 3 or 4 year deal after next year.  Do not know if the Twins will do it, but at the current time he is a 3. 

That now leaves the Twins with a hopeful 2 and 3 #3s for next year.  Not bad and with about 6 more starters coming in 2018 - 2019 Twins should not have rotation issues. 

Deal could be very good if Santiago puts it all together, or just passable if he does not.

We should revisit in 2-3 years, this is not a short term thing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

For those suggesting that we can flip Santiago this winter or next summer -- doesn't this trade sorta suggest Santiago doesn't have much value? Not saying it is a bad trade for the Twins, but it seems worth noting that the Angels have been shopping Santiago and only wound up with Nolasco and an apparently injured Meyer. Of course, the Angels are a bit of a weird team, with a tendency to make odd moves, and this might be one of them...

[Tuba]

How did Santiago not end up on a contender when the market for SPs was so thin this year? He looks pretty solid. 

 

Obviously trade will depend on how Meyer pans out, but I think the Twins got enough to pull the trigger. 

[twinsnorth49]

Uh, everyone knows Nolasco is gone, right?

 

What's the fuss?

[h2oface]

Let's revisit this in 2-3 years...

That's what has been said about the original trade. I too liked Meyer. But 4 years later it was a horrible trade. Tricked by hope and dreams.

[h2oface]

Great trade. The twins got 7 years younger, a better starting pitcher, and a prospect that is on the rise instead of slumping.

The prospect on the rise? The only thing on the rise since moved to AAA is his ERA, and that is sky rocketing at that level.

[h2oface]

This is a nothing trade. So what. The Angels were just as tired of Santiago as the Twins were of Nolasco. Meyer has the only up side of the 4. If the point is to get better, this is not the move that will do that. But at least I don't have to watch Nolasco grab his balls a record number of times a game, so the trade is a win from that standpoint

[Jham]

 

 

I like the deals, but nothing compared to other teams and doubt that they will set us afire into a competitive 2017.

The moves aren't supposed to make us competitors next season.  Buxton, Sano, Kepler, and Berrios are.

[kab21]

 

This is a nothing trade. So what. The Angels were just as tired of Santiago as the Twins were of Nolasco. Meyer has the only up side of the 4. If the point is to get better, this is not the move that will do that. But at least I don't have to watch Nolasco grab his balls a record number of times a game, so the trade is a win from that standpoint

Nolasco and Santiago are nothing alike. Santiago has a 3.68 career ERA (4.25 this year) and Nolasco has a 4.58 career ERA (and 3 seasons of 5+ ERA). The Twins paid for that improvement with an intriguing but oft-injured and inconsistent prospect.

[shs_59]

Rob Antony for full-time GM!!!!

 

Nunez trade C+   (although at first i wasn't fully on board c-)

 

Abad trade (value)   A-

 

Nolasco/ Meyer trade     B+

 

all in all i'm thrilled as a Twins fan, that the direction is more positive at the end of the day then negative; throw that in with Mauer going deep and Mad Max Kepler going deep 3X  that SURE helps! :-)

[shs_59]

Light is essentially a replacement for Meyer, so in affect its almost like trading Abad and Nolasco for Hector Santiago and the minor league which is a flat out steal!

While opening up exactly 1 40-man roster spot by shedding Meyer.

[h2oface]

Nolasco and Santiago are nothing alike. Santiago has a 3.68 career ERA (4.25 this year) and Nolasco has a 4.58 career ERA (and 3 seasons of 5+ ERA). The Twins paid for that improvement with an intriguing but oft-injured and inconsistent prospect.

I know their stats, but thanks for posting them.... again. I live in LA, and what I have said about the Angels being tired of Santiago is accurate.

[h2oface]

Rob Antony for full-time GM!!!!

 

AAAAaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaAaaAAA.

 

No reason to get carried away here and lose your mind.

[kab21]

 

I know their stats, but thanks for posting them.... again. I live in LA, and what I have said about the Angels being tired of Santiago is accurate.

That would make Santiago more like Suzuki. Nolasco is by far the worst pitcher in baseball for the last 3 years. He doesn't belong on a baseball field at this point. 

 

I almost expect Santiago to completely fall apart because that tends to happen with Twins pitchers when they either come here or after signing extensions.

[h2oface]

That would make Santiago more like Suzuki. Nolasco is by far the worst pitcher in baseball for the last 3 years. He doesn't belong on a baseball field at this point.

 

Again, I was not comparing the two, and especially not comparing a pitcher to a catcher. You are welcome to, if you like.

 

Seems I remember Nolasco going 8 innings or something and only giving up 3 hits just a couple days ago.... past is passed and most would take his most recent outing. Hey, I am no fan, but I can't ignore what I saw.

[insane16]

 

I live in LA, and what I have said about the Angels being tired of Santiago is accurate.

I live about 15 miles from Angel Stadium and coach HS baseball with a TON of Angel fans in my ear.

Santiago is 100 million times more popular with Angel fans than Ricky Fiasco is with Twins fans.

Hell, Donald Trump is more popular with illegal immigrants than Ricky Fiasco is with Twins fans

[ThejacKmp]

Yeah, but you are forgetting that unlike Nolasco, the Twins don't have to tender Santiago a contract or they could move him this offseason if they think Mejia is ready to take his spot next spring. That leaves open some serious options. Even if you do tender Santiago a contract, he's much easier to move mid-year next year when Gonsalves, Stewart or Jay is ready. He's not going to block anyone who is genuinely ready. I think you're missing the value this added flexibility brings. And the reality is with Molitor, Meyer wasn't going to get much of a shot here. Losing Meyer is not something I wanted to see, but I think it was worth the value.

Meyer want going to get much of a shot with anyone unless he performed, which he never really did. He may turn out to be a total bust but I just wish the twins had given him more leash because of all the tools. He's a heavy price to pay.

 

Can you move Santiago at the deadline next year? He's a league average pitcher at best with a FIP over 5. It seems like we had tommy milone fitting that description and couldn't give him away.

 

I love the optimism that the twins will give up on Santiago. Can't see it being reality but love the optimism.

[ThejacKmp]

I will note this though, if he performs to his career, Santiago gets flipped next year this time or possibly offered arb for a pick (assuming that is still in the next CBA).  Both could potentially have value too, even if Meyer is successful.  I'm not sure I like this deal as I don't like the potential they gave up, but they certainly improved the short term position of this team, taking a rotation spot away from a vet for 2018 when guys like Stewart, Gonsalves, Jay, etc. are likely pushing for one.

They in no way took a spot away from a vet in 2018, if anything they increased the chance a vet will get a spot. Ricky was done after 2017, there was no way the twins were going to bring Him back. His player option needed 400 innings in 2016 and 2017 - he currently has 124. The twins had every ability to stop that option year so no way Ricky is back 2018.

 

Santiago will be a free agent but if he has a good year next year, the twins may just double down with a four year deal. Santiago is your threat to block gonsalves/jay/Stewart/Jorge.

[Platoon]

The deal is effectively Alan Busenitz for Alex Meyer.  (I really don't care about the mediocre starter swap/salary relief.)

 

Could I ever like this deal?   No way.

 

Meyer was really messed up with the Twins and maybe did not have a chance to achieve his potential.  On the other hand, my hope was that the 2017 Twins after the regime change would have broken camp with Meyer on top of their rotation, because he is the only guy in the organization with ace potential and because I have seen him pitch at that level.

 

Now if the Twins new GM goes out in the off-season and trades for an ace (like one in the top 10-20 names in this list), I might change my mind.

I liked Meyer also, and agree with your thoughts on him. Meyer still has a chance, but I didn't see it here. But I fear the Twins will never completely revamp the orginisation. One never knows about Pohlad, but he has laid out some pretty big roadblocks for an agressive GM. No new manager, and no complete tear down of the existing system. I have been wrong before, but I won't believe it happens until it does!

[twinssouth]

My last words on Meyer and then moving on. Going off memory (bad idea), goes something like this:

 

 

1st season with Twins (2013?) was shut down May to mid July for shoulder problems

2014, pitched great but shut down early as precaution due to shoulder concerns (Ryan wanted to bring him up in September but shoulder issues says no)

2015 don't recall shoulder issues but could have been in play

2016 hasn't pitched since May because of Shoulder

 

He just couldn't stay healthy and now he's 27 and rehabbing a bad shoulder. I wish him the best of luck though. Hope he does well.

[SarasotaBill]

Did Suzuki not get traded because the Twins may want to renew his 2017 option?

[jimmer]

 

Did Suzuki not get traded because the Twins may want to renew his 2017 option?

maybe.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Can you move Santiago at the deadline next year? He's a league average pitcher at best with a FIP over 5. It seems like we had tommy milone fitting that description and couldn't give him away.ism.

I was just about to post this comparison.

 

Santiago and Milone get there from different ways, but it seems they are both modestly effective left-handers who aren't that valuable around the league, for whatever reason.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=4026,7608

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by spycake

[SweetOne69]

 

There's an awfully good chance that Nolasco gets to exercise a player option in 2018 @ $13M. (400 IP over 2016 and 17).

Highly Unlikely.  He has been healthy all year and is only averaging about 5.5IP/game.  To hit 200 innings he would have to average 7IP/game the rest of the year.