Article: Twins Trade Deadline Tidbits

[Kwak]

I'm guessing other GMs are simply waiting for the Twins to waive players and then swoop in if they actually have any interest. There is no need to actually exchange any "value" for someone who will be dumped on the street corner with a "free" sign taped on him.

[tobi0040]

Mike link,

 

My mobile won't let me reply directly. But I don't think Ervin can be lumped in with Nolasco and Milone. His 102 and 112 ERA plus is about what we should have expected and $13m is not really a bad amount compared to other free agent starters.

[Deebers]

This would be funny if it weren't so frustrating. Why would you cling to Santana at this point? The team is going to lose 100 games! Trade him for a decent prospect or two and move on. You're not talking about trading Mike Trout, so don't hold out for a package that's going to overwhelm you. Good lord.

 

This is the classic Twins mistake -- holding onto/paying people for what they've done this season or last season vs. what they're likely to two 1-2 seasons from now. Ervin Santana will be 34 next season. He's got a chance to be league-average, but he could also break down or fall apart (Phil Hughes, anybody?) Trade him now while his value is as high as it's going to get. Reload for the next contending team. Open up space for Berrios or May or whatever other young guys have a legit chance to be part of a long-term solution. Hanging onto mediocre veterans is a big part of the reason the team is in this mess in the first place. So stop doing the things that failed in the past and start doing something different. Isn't that the whole point of firing the damn GM? 

 

If Antony sits on his butt and fails to trade anybody other than Nunez and a reliever, I'm going to lose my mind. 

[d-mac]

 

That was exactly my point; if they aren't willing to push aside some trash because they're paying them larger salaries, then moving Santana or Gibson would at least bring back some sort of prospect and give May/Berrios a secure spot in the rotation. It isn't the most desirable situation, but standing pat at the deadline and rolling into next season with basically the same starting staff is even worse IMO. 

 

Judging by Antony's comments regarding Santana it doesn't sound like he is going anywhere. I honestly am not sure if the Twins just don't want to move him but are afraid to admit it and face some backlash, or they're actually delusional enough to think he's worth a top prospect. 

 

Well, they are delusional enough that they think they are going to compete next year.

[Winston Smith]

I think a lot of people are trying to make a silk purse of a sow's ear with these guys.

 

Two weeks ago Ryan was willing to part with Santana for a lower prospect to shed salary. Now they need a top prospect. This front office is still a mess and them doing anything of note this summer is highly unlikely, imo.

[jimmer]

 

 

If Antony sits on his butt and fails to trade anybody other than Nunez and a reliever, I'm going to lose my mind. 

Well , prepare yourself then, cause Nunez and/or a reliever might not even be traded.

[d-mac]

 

Look at the crap TR brought in during the years we were contending. I have to believe there is at least one GM just as dumb and will take a chance on Nolasco if we pick up at least $10 million. Saving $6 million is better than nothing. As for Santana, the horrible FA market has to play into his worth. When the top FAs have Helluckson and Hill towards the top of the list, you know the pickings are slim. I wouldn't even move him for someone the equivalent of Gonclaves.

 

The flip side to that is Santana should return more than in a normal year since the FA market is so thin. The Twins aren't contending this year, nor next year. Santana will be 35 in 2018, when maybe we are possibly contending. His value isn't likely going up, so why not trade him now?

[jimmer]

 

The flip side to that is Santana should return more than in a normal year since the FA market is so thin. The Twins aren't contending this year, nor next year. Santana will be 35 in 2018, when maybe we are possibly contending. His value isn't likely going up, so why not trade him now?

That and if you think he's getting under-paid (and by the market he may be), GMs look at that when determining what they want in return.

Edited July 27, 2016 by jimmer

[d-mac]

 

That and if you think he's getting under-paid 9and by the market he may be), GMs look at that when determining what they want in return.

 

And there is no reason they couldn't throw in some extra cash and make him even more underpaid. 

[jimmer]

 

And there is no reason they couldn't throw in some extra cash and make him even more underpaid. 

They could do that to get an even better prospect, but I don't see it happening. 

 

Anyway, I've read a ton of posts on whether or not we should trade him and I still am firmly in the trade him if you can camp.  I can' t see us competing next year at all, so to me, keeping him makes no sense.  Just my opinion.

 

BTW, for those who say he's under-paid, he's already been worth over 14M and there's still 60+ games left.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see it as likely they compete next year...so I'd trade him for a decent prospect. Unlike Antony, I see no reason that prospect needs to be close to the majors, get the best prospect(s).

 

It was a nice interview, thanks for the link.

[d-mac]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/central-notes-sale-rosenthal-nunez-antony.html

 

There's this little gem over at mlbtraderumors. Sounds like ownership wants to retain Antony for 2017. Good Lord. 

[jimmer]

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/central-notes-sale-rosenthal-nunez-antony.html

 

There's this little gem over at mlbtraderumors. Sounds like ownership wants to retain Antony for 2017. Good Lord. 

He's under contract with the team. Doesn't mean it has to be as GM.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[stringer bell]

 

Hoping all this competing in 2017 talk is just a ruse to try and improve offers and not look desperate. Hopefully Antony isn't looking for a king's ransom for these mediocre trade chips a la Terry Ryan. Cut bait, and move on....

 

On the flip side, I read that the Twins are seen as a backup plan for a lot of teams in case they don't end up getting the guys they really want so if the Twins will be involved in any deals (please, for the love of God, make some moves....) it might come down to the wire.

On one side of the game, the Twins could easily have enough to contend, Offensively, the upturn of the last few weeks has been fueled by players who haven't come close to reaching their peak and have outstanding potential buttressed by players the Twins have control over, who shouldn't be on the down side of their careers. Pitching and defense are the big concerns and the Twins need help both in the bullpen and especially the rotation.

 

IMHO, if no changes are made, only Gibson and Santana are locks for a rotation in 2017. Bullpens are always year to year, but based on performance so far this year Kintzler, Rogers, Pressly, and Abad should have golden tickets for 2017 leaving at least three spots there. Defensively, the current 3B has been historically terrible (SSS) and the tandem at SS has been far below average. Catching is also a defensive weakness and the regular catcher probably won't be back next year. Could the Twins acquire and promote enough pitching to contend? It is a long shot, but I don't think it is totally out of the realm with the young, talented nucleus of position players.

 

If they truly want to contend, they need to trade their parts that don't fit or have relatively higher value (Suzuki, Nunez, Kintzler, Abad) and bring back players that could help as soon as next year. They have room on the 40-man and plenty of prospective vacancies on the pitching staff.

[mazeville]

Keep your expectations low.

 

And, to be honest, maybe that's a good thing. 

 

Rob Antony is unlikely to get the full time job. Assuming that someone else is coming into this position, wouldn't it be best for him (or her, should the new GM end up to be Kim Ng) to be the one making trades?

 

I think this team would be better off letting Antony trade the lower value assets, like a reliever or two or Kurt Suzuki or Eduardo Nunez (though I'm less inclined to trade him). 

 

And then the new person could look at the roster and the organizational needs and work on trading Ervin Santana and, in particular, Brian Dozier, this offseason. 

 

There's no rush to trade either of those guys. Dozier is a far better offseason trade candidate, anyway, and there's not much in the way of free agent pitchers to be had, so perhaps Santana could attract some interest -- especially if the team kicks in a few million bucks.

[d-mac]

 

He's under contract with the team. Doesn't mean it has to be as GM.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

I'm of the opinion that there needs to be a clean sweep of the front office. So it does worry me. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

The time to trade Santana is not now this trade deadline. If they were taking offers on Santanna the time to do that is at the Winter meetings. When teams realize how scarce FA pitching is and just how stinky that market is going to be, then they will be willing to part with more. I believe Antony is right this is not the deadline to move Ervin Santana. If your going to move him the offseason strategy would be best.

You still have to try and win games and Santana has been the Twins best pitcher so far. I say the Twins are right to not dump him. 

 

The GMs don't realize there aren't any FAs next year, but you do?

 

Why do they need to try to win games this year, exactly? Isn't getting more good players for 2018 and beyond the goal right now?

[troyhobbs]

 

If they truly want to contend, they need to trade their parts that don't fit or have relatively higher value (Suzuki, Nunez, Kintzler, Abad) and bring back players that could help as soon as next year. They have room on the 40-man and plenty of prospective vacancies on the pitching staff.

Trending upward is what we all hope is happening, but contending in 2017.... We're seeing lately how the lineup looks when they're clicking but that doesn't mean that's the new standard. How low the lows can be is still relevant, the pitching staff has a long way to go, especially minus Santana if that happens (although I'd still trade him), 2017 contention seems pretty fantastical....and keeping these vets around to chase a .500 record seems like a bad play too. Trade anything with value and regroup over the winter, that's my hope.

[Mike Sixel]

 

From a business perspective you still have to field a competitive team on the field and try and win games and for the clubhouse morale, you still have to try and win games even in a lost season. It's my belief Santana would fetch more in return at the Winter meetings than at this trade deadline, just my opinion.

 

Like Houston, who is way ahead in the rebuild? You feel like they were wrong, still?

[tobi0040]

Like Houston, who is way ahead in the rebuild? You feel like they were wrong, still?

yeah, I think the Twins do feel like they need to field a somewhat competitive team each year. That is why we won't trade Ervin and why the rebuild was never really a rebuild at all, and why it was prolonged.

 

I wish they would have really committed to a rebuild and communicated with the fans about where they were and why they were doing it. It may have been a difficult press release or news conference, but speeding it up as well as honesty would have been better in the end.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I would give Nolasco away for a McDonalds hamburger and a small sundae. Problem is all of the other legaue teams GM's know the Twins would take $50,000 or a low level PTNBL just to move him. They will wait until he is free agent after a DFA before they would move on him. 

 

I doubt the problem is that GMs know the Twins will take anything for him. I think the problem is that GMs won't give anything for him.   The guy has no value based on how he has pitched the last 2.5 seasons.

[Obsvr]

I love the..."trade so and so for a good prospect...."

 

Every reason you want to dump Milone, Nolasco et al is exactly the reason why nobody else wants them...much less for a "good" prospect.

 

Santana isn't likely going anywhere and nobody wants Milone or Nolasco.  Suzuki, Nunez, and Abad may go, but won't bring back much of a return.  Not much to speculate there.    

 

This trading deadline is going to be ho-hum for the Twins...garbage in garbage out, which is why TR is gone.  They just don't have anybody that is worth a true prospect(s).

 

Personally, I think the offense is fine...even with Mauer.  Aside from the dismal first 1.5 months, they score plenty of runs.  Hopefully the new GM is creative and can address the starting staff issues.  I think you keep Santana as there isn't a better option to replace him in the system.  

 

Milone has to go, he's had enough chances and he is what he is...Nolasco can be a long reliever if you cant dump him.   

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Nolasco's bad for sure, although not as bad as the ERA number suggests. Reports came out that the Orioles, and perhaps others, were scouting Milone and Nolasco, so I'd suggest there is at least a slim hope one or both could be moved for a little something maybe, depending on the willingness of the Twins to absorb some of their contract sins.

They'd have to absorb virtually all of the money, I think.  See the Melvin (BJ) Upton deal to Toronto -- San Diego paid $17 of his remaining $22 mil, and Upton has been an above-average hitter and defender this year and last.

 

Baltimore was actually interested in swapping Jimenez for Upton, but apparently they didn't like the financials (Upton is owed about $4 mil more)?  Chris Davis mega-deal aside, they are relatively frugal.  I doubt they would have the stomach to pick up much of Nolasco's deal.  Vance Worley seems about as good a bet as Nolasco to hold down the fort at the back of the rotation.

 

Milone is a different matter -- he's pretty affordable.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I love the..."trade so and so for a good prospect...."

 

Every reason you want to dump Milone, Nolasco et al is exactly the reason why nobody else wants them...much less for a "good" prospect.

 

Santana isn't likely going anywhere and nobody wants Milone or Nolasco.  Suzuki, Nunez, and Abad may go, but won't bring back much of a return.  Not much to speculate there.    

 

This trading deadline is going to be ho-hum for the Twins...garbage in garbage out, which is why TR is gone.  They just don't have anybody that is worth a true prospect(s).

 

Personally, I think the offense is fine...even with Mauer.  Aside from the dismal first 1.5 months, they score plenty of runs.  Hopefully the new GM is creative and can address the starting staff issues.  I think you keep Santana as there isn't a better option to replace him in the system.  

 

Milone has to go, he's had enough chances and he is what he is...Nolasco can be a long reliever if you cant dump him.   

 

who is suggesting trading Nolasco for a good prospect? I'd eat nearly his entire salary in exchange for a PTBNL that turns out to be you, to open a spot for Berrios.

 

Who has suggested trading Milone for a good prospect? Most people here say to just DFA him again.

 

I'm confused by your post.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This would be funny if it weren't so frustrating. Why would you cling to Santana at this point? The team is going to lose 100 games! Trade him for a decent prospect or two and move on. You're not talking about trading Mike Trout, so don't hold out for a package that's going to overwhelm you. Good lord.

There is some truth to this.  While we all focus on Santana's remaining 2/27 after this season, Ervin is still owed about $5 mil for 2016 too, and given our position, that is just money down the drain.   There could be a right mix of prospects and money that makes this interesting, even if it's short of overwhelming.

[ScrapTheNickname]

Say Mauer is worth $5 million a year. Say we eat $36 million. Voila.

[jimmer]

 

There is some truth to this.  While we all focus on Santana's remaining 2/27 after this season, Ervin is still owed about $5 mil for 2016 too, and given our position, that is just money down the drain.   There could be a right mix of prospects and money that makes this interesting, even if it's short of overwhelming.

and a lot of people are forgetting his buyout of 1M.  So it's 2/28 on top of what he's still owed

[jimmer]

 

 It's my belief Santana would fetch more in return at the Winter meetings than at this trade deadline, just my opinion.

Dave Cameron mentioned Deadline Premium trade costs at least twice in his chat from today. IMO, if Santana is being under-paid (and I think he is), a team, especially a contender, would want him more now than in the offseason. They'd get him sooner, they'd get him for a playoff run, and they'd pay him less than he's worth.  He's the kind of player a contending team should target now.  I think now is when his trade value is highest.

 

He's the kind of pitcher Baltimore should target.

Edited July 27, 2016 by jimmer

[Winston Smith]

It will likely be 2019  before our future starting pitchers are hopefully ready to make this a serious contender. This team has Sano and Kepler that should for sure be on that team and a hope that Buxton and Rosario can find their way. Everyone else on this roster should be fair game for trading, imo.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

and a lot of people are forgetting his buyout of 1M.  So it's 2/28 on top of what he's still owed

Ah, good catch.  I was a stickler about the buyout before, but I've just read $27 mil so many times now, I thought it included the buyout.  So yeah, we're at $33 mil remaining guaranteed on Santana, $5 mil this year and $28 mil after.

 

That said, I think a decent offer for Santana is almost as unlikely as any offer for Nolasco.  Even if Santana is a decent pitcher on a decent contract, there just isn't a history of that level of pitcher, at that age and with that kind of contract, getting traded at the deadline for a solid return.  I think the deadline is a time when teams want to add premium talent (i.e. Chapman), or they want to get a good deal on someone's surplus asset (i.e. Melvin Upton to the Jays).  Santana will fall in the latter group.