John Shipley: Pohlad Hopes Ryan will be Permanent GM

[Mike Sixel]

raindog, it is not my intent to kill every thread. On most of the prospect threads, I'm quite positive, even admitting that Hicks is getting me excited again. But I can see that my posts this last week have been pretty harsh on the major league team. I didn't see this before posting on the Sox trade, but I can tone it down for a bit. No problem.

 

I do find it odd that people come to a Twins' discussion site, and complain that people offer opinions in general (note, this is not aimed at you, I thought your post about me was pretty civil, given your message).

 

Tell you what, I'll go the next three weeks w/o posting a negative thought (which may lead to less posting about the ML team, but oh well).

 

I do find it odd that anyone would say that I don't use facts, or back up my statements. I try very hard to do that, and not just say stuff....

[snepp]

At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

 

"mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.

There's an ignore feature if you can't stomach it.

 

 

Personally I've typically found mike wants wins to possess quality insight, here and in various fangraphs articles, despite the negativity (and this team has certainly earned every bit of negativity that comes its way).

[70charger]

At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

 

"mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.

You're not the only one who feel this way.

 

However, what I've found is that we can make lemonade from these lemons. Whatever they say, you know right off the bat that there's a reasonable case to be made for the opposite.

[tobynotjason]

Best decision I ever made: deciding to commit to watching/following the Pirates as much as I did the Twins in 2008 when the Neal Huntington regime was settling in. It's just SO damn nice cheering for an organization with a front office that realizes it's the 21st century and rarely does anything to incense anyone who's realized similar things.

 

Hopefully the Pohlads decide to cash out on the gift given to them by the people of Minnesota and an owner with a clue comes in and cleans house in the F.O. and field staff.

 

Not. Holding. My. Breath.

[gunnarthor]

Best decision I ever made: deciding to commit to watching/following the Pirates as much as I did the Twins in 2008 when the Neal Huntington regime was settling in. It's just SO damn nice cheering for an organization with a front office that realizes it's the 21st century and rarely does anything to incense anyone who's realized similar things.

Interesting comparison, I think they are pretty similar type GMs, actually. IIRC, Huntington was mocked for a lot of his trades. He traded off Bay, Wilson, Snell, Nady etc and got a few complementary pieces back. Tony Sanchez and Mark Appeal fiascos. Twins outbid them on Sano. He hired an old school type manager.

 

Pirate drafts have been interesting. On one hand, guys like Alvarez, Cole and Taillon were no-brainer picks but also made expensive gambles on guys like Allie and Bell. And his 08 draft hasn't really worked out yet - his first three picks are 25 now and yet to break out (Alvarez is having a nice season, I suppose, but a .297 OBP is scary), his 4th pick is back in the minors, I believe. Obviously no one from the 09-12 drafts have made it yet.

 

Clearly, he's done some good things - but I wonder how you'd feel if Ryan punted the #4 pick for financial reasons or lost the #8 pick in a draft. If he had lost Sano to some other team, despite Sano wanting to come here. If his prize prospects were underwhelming at the ML level and not debuting before 25. I suspect your views would be much different based on you interpret the GMs rather than on what moves the GM actually made.

[Mike Sixel]

I am happy to have discussions based on facts, anytime you want to have them.

[CDog]

At the risk of being hypocritical, I have to say this.

 

"mike wants wins" and "twinswon1991" are absolutely killing this board with their obnoxious negativity. They poison, every, single, thread. It's not that I don't agree with them, it the way they go about things. They add almost nothing to the conversation. They only complain. If I'm the only one that feels this way, I'll just go on my merry way. But I can't stand reading these posts anymore.

This obviously is off topic from the original topic of the thread, although that topic seems to have dried up. And you or anyone else could probably care less what I think on the topic. But hey, welcome to the internet!! Haha.

 

The point you bring up is a bit close to my nerve center, which is why I figured I would respond. I think there are two different types you've lumped into one group. But there is a HUGE difference between the two types, and they don't deserve to be put together.

 

In one group are those that look at and occasionally (or often) present facts to others, and based on those facts come to a conclusion that is often (or even nearly always) fairly negative or pessimistic. While I may often (or nearly always) disagree with the conclusion, it is theirs to make. I think anyone (including he) would agree that 'mike wants wins' falls into a pessimisitc group, but it seems from his reply and others in this thread that he is basing that pessimism in fact. (I should mention I'm going on what was said in this thread. I would have to look back to find out if that's true.)

 

On the other hand, there are people who are more what, I think, you are describing and lamenting. Those that not only have nothing but complaints, but that either provide no justification or, even worse, "back up" their rants with exaggerations, fabrications, misinterpretations, and flat out lies. These are the people that I would say are closer to "killing this board." Let us not confuse and mix up the pessimist with the troll. It's not fair to either of them.

 

I will also add that I think the overwhelming presence of reasonable pessimists and optimists both are more than a match for those in the second group and the death of the board is not likely to be achieved because of their nonsense.

[Mike Sixel]

Good post by cdog, I certainly hope I am in the first group, when I am pessimistic, which is probably about 70% of my posts here lately....which is too high a percent for even my comfort.

[James]

Good post by cdog, I certainly hope I am in the first group, when I am pessimistic, which is probably about 70% of my posts here lately....which is too high a percent for even my comfort.

Mike, you can be pessimistic, but I don't blame you for it. I don't always agree with your opinions, but I usually think they're well thought out. So, no complaint there from me.

 

Cdog had it right though, there is a second category of posters on this site that are here solely to complain without using any facts to back themselves up. To those people, it is best just to ignore them and move on.

 

As for the original topic, I think TR has had a rough go of it this year. I think he has done some good things, but he's made some mistakes (Marquis). I personally am not ready to call the Liriano trade a complete bust yet... yet. I'm not even ready to call the Delmon Young trade a bust yet (I think Oliveros might have some value sooner rather than later). I will, of course, be willing to eat my words at any time when it becomes completely apparent that I am wrong.

[Mike Sixel]

I stand by what I have said since they brought him back, he should get at least 1 mote offseason to male them better and younger before reaching some conclusion in the job he is doing.

[James]

I stand by what I have said since they brought him back, he should get at least 1 mote offseason to male them better and younger before reaching some conclusion in the job he is doing.

That is where we are in complete agreement. Except I am unclear as how TR will mote an offseason to male the team...

 

I'm sorry, those were just interesting typos. I'm not trying to be a dick.

[Mike Sixel]

Dangit....gotta pay attention to autofill on the phone before hitting post.....at least we got some humor in this thread...

[J-Dog Dungan]

The real problem with the past offseason was that our offense/defense was what Ryan decided to target, and he did a kick-a$$ job of that, signing Carroll (defense), Doumit (versatility/offense), Willingham (oh my gawd offense) for relative bargains. Of course, all of us that were hoping 2011 was just an aberration have had a sore wake-up call this year, even with the relatively high number of bright spots that have developed over the year. The thing is, it is hard to both "rebuild" (not that the Twins like to use that word) and compete in the same year, but the deals that Ryan made in the offseason were supposed to be a balance of the two. Now that we have a fairly reliable offense who is clearly capable of wiping the floor of "competitive" teams like Cleveland is supposed to be, Ryan can focus more on signing/trading for major league pitching/high level minor league prospects that we so desperately need. I would say give him AT LEAST one more year before throwing Ryan under the bus, because Smith didn't leave us with a great farm system to have hope in.

[Mike Sixel]

The part of the farm system Smith is accountable for is the strongest part of the system....

[CDog]

Good post by cdog, I certainly hope I am in the first group, when I am pessimistic, which is probably about 70% of my posts here lately....which is too high a percent for even my comfort.

Good post by mike. Especially the early-going. HA!

[CDog]

I'm not even ready to call the Delmon Young trade a bust yet ...

I'm actually willing to already call it a success!