Article: It's Time!

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not sure we would have projected Dozier to be as good as he has become (although I would have expected a higher BA and OBP, but not as much power.) They are tough to compare because Dozier was a college guy who tore up AA (OPS .885) at age 24. Polanco won't get the chance because he will be out of options next year at age 23. He has never approached what Dozier did that year, but then his .725 OPS last year between AA and AAA at age 21 is good enough to make it hard to compare with a 24-yr-old.

Polanco is at .852 this year at AAA as a 22 year old. I'd say that is comparable enough to Dozier's. 885 in AAA as a 24 year old.

 

Dozier did OPS .832 in his 22 year old season....at rookie ball.

 

Will Polanco be as good a major leaguer as Dozier? We don't know. He's a better prospect than Dozier was though, so that's a start.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I wasn't real clear about it, but I was including the 4 he already has. 15 starts is roughly half a season. Gibson had 8 in 2013, and May had 8 in 2014. Another member and I discussed the need to let young pitchers work thru their troubles. I would give Berrios the ball every 5 days come hell or high water for the rest of the season. He should be ready for center stage day one of 2017.

I was counting them too. Berrios needs to start every 5th game beginning August 1st to get 11 more MLB starts this year. Hence why we are very near zero margin for error toward that goal.

 

Personally, I would have preferred a little more margin for error in getting that experience for Berrios, over whatever it is they are trying to do with Nolasco or Milone...

[Mr. Brooks]

Too late to edit, but my last post should say AA for Dozier, not AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

Still time.....nice start by Milone yesterday.....

 

So far, Boshers has been terrible, and Milone has been terrible.....it's time.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Last I read even after his last great start the Twins FO is still not impressed with Berrios as they keep grasping for straws to why he is not up yet. Berrios should have been up a week ago to all but cement his place in the 2017 rotation. At this rate he won't be on the team for good until May of 2017, as I am doubting the Twins will put him on the opening day roster. I don't get why it is taking so long to bring Berrios back. It's pathetic and makes the Twins FO look like imbeciles for holding Berrios out so long and giving him a mere 4 start audition. Doesn't seem the Twins view him in the same light as Sano or Buxton.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Last I read even after his last great start the Twins FO is still not impressed with Berrios as they keep grasping for straws to why he is not up yet. Berrios should have been up a week ago to all but cement his place in the 2017 rotation. At this rate he won't be on the team for good until May of 2017, as I am doubting the Twins will put him on the opening day roster. I don't get why it is taking so long to bring Berrios back. It's pathetic and makes the Twins FO look like imbeciles for holding Berrios out so long and giving him a mere 4 start audition. Doesn't seem the Twins view him in the same light as Sano or Buxton.

 

I'd love to read that, where was it?

[Lonestar]

I think they are keeping Berrios down due to Super 2 considerations

[Mr. Brooks]

The only thing I can think of is that they figure this deep into the season they might as well keep him down until about 5/1 next year and get yet another season of team control out of him.

I realize some claim the Twins don't play that game, but with 3 slots in the rotation to choose from (Nolasco, Milone, Duffey), I don't see any other reason he's not up yet.

[Mike Sixel]

The only thing I can think of is that they figure this deep into the season they might as well keep him down until about 5/1 next year and get yet another season of team control out of him.

I realize some claim the Twins don't play that game, but with 3 slots in the rotation to choose from (Nolasco, Milone, Duffey), I don't see any other reason he's not up yet.

That would be awful.

[FormerMinnasotan]

I'd love to read that, where was it?

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/baseball/2016/07/22/berrios-continues-show-wings-hes-show-worthy/87458062/

 

It's just my opinion this is what the Twins think, but from this article it almost sounds like every pitch Berrios throws needs to be perfect in order for him to be promoted. I hope I am wrong, but with this organization I can see the Twins holding Berrios back especially since his first stint didn't go so well.

[Mike Sixel]

Ya, wow. As far as I can tell, only the Twins seem believe that right now.......wow. That was a depressing read.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Mike Sixel

[Mr. Brooks]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/baseball/2016/07/22/berrios-continues-show-wings-hes-show-worthy/87458062/

 

It's just my opinion this is what the Twins think, but from this article it almost sounds like every pitch Berrios throws needs to be perfect in order for him to be promoted. I hope I am wrong, but with this organization I can see the Twins holding Berrios back especially since his first stint didn't go so well.

So I'm paraphrasing here, but basically the Twins feel:

Even though he's dominating at AAA, they want to see 6 or 7 straight starts where not even a single hitter makes "solid contact".

 

Wow, unreal.

[gocgo]

So, if they used that criteria on the current staff, how many of them would still be on the team?

[Mike Sixel]

 

So I'm paraphrasing here, but basically the Twins feel:
Even though he's dominating at AAA, they want to see 6 or 7 straight starts where not even a single hitter makes "solid contact".

Wow, unreal.

 

Total. System. Failure.

 

This right here is another reason they need a new GM, imo.

[Vanimal46]

Quade and Steil are really grasping at straws IMO for reasons why Berrios is not at the MLB level. That's exactly what you want to see from a starter - quick adjustments and shutting down the lineup the rest of the start. 
 

[Vanimal46]

 

So, if they used that criteria on the current staff, how many of them would still be on the team?

Great point. Not sure there would be anyone left on the MLB roster. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think they are keeping Berrios down due to Super 2 considerations

Can't tell if serious, but Berrios is well past that point, this season. He was only up for ~3 weeks earlier, and we're about 7 weeks past the assumed Super 2 threshold date.

[jimmer]

 

Can't tell if serious, but Berrios is well past that point, this season. He was only up for ~3 weeks earlier, and we're about 7 weeks past the assumed Super 2 threshold date.

Super 2 for 2017? :-)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

So I'm paraphrasing here, but basically the Twins feel:
Even though he's dominating at AAA, they want to see 6 or 7 straight starts where not even a single hitter makes "solid contact".

Wow, unreal.

No solid contact allowed, even on his off days. Because as Quade said, "you have to do it day in and day out."

[70charger]

No solid contact allowed, even on his off days. Because as Quade said, "you have to do it day in and day out."

Seems like not allowing contact would be easiest on your days off, actually...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Seems like not allowing contact would be easiest on your days off, actually...

True, it's that every fifth day that Berrios pitches that gives him the most problems?

[FormerMinnasotan]

So I'm paraphrasing here, but basically the Twins feel:

Even though he's dominating at AAA, they want to see 6 or 7 straight starts where not even a single hitter makes "solid contact".

 

Wow, unreal.

I know in '07 the Twins pulled some of the same crap on Matt Garza that they are doing to Jose Berrios now. Next we will hear that Berrios has morphed into a club house cancer and needs to be moved. BTW, if this was Kohl Stewart pitching not Jose Berrios the Twins would be all to happy to let Stewart take his lumps even though he will never put up the k numbers Berrios will. The Twins have been super aggressive in promoting Stewart, while Berrios pushed his way up to AAA ball the Twins have been over conservative in his development from AAA to the majors. Also, how is it that Tyler Duffey can fail time and again with no action taken against him yet Berrios is given 4 starts and fails and gets BANISHED to AAA with no time table for his permanent return?

[FormerMinnasotan]

Quade and Steil are really grasping at straws IMO for reasons why Berrios is not at the MLB level. That's exactly what you want to see from a starter - quick adjustments and shutting down the lineup the rest of the start.

 

I'm guessing Quade and Steil are being fed this line by the Twins FO. It seems to me Quade believes that Berrios should be up now but this is what excuse the Twins give him why they won't call up Berrios.

[tobi0040]

Total. System. Failure.

 

This right here is another reason they need a new GM, imo.

Clean house. My god. These guys are so far out of their depth it isn't funny.

 

This would be just great if this was another team in the division we could ridicule for years. But it isn't.

 

If they hire an internal GM, keep most of the staff around, or make a Mike Tice type cheapest and least qualified hire I have to start following another team. I mean, what is the point?

Edited July 26, 2016 by tobi0040

[Vanimal46]

We're not getting any younger. It's time to shake up the current roster. 

[FormerMinnasotan]

Well, Berrios didn't pitch well enough for a promotion last night. He had one of those "big innings" with resulted in 3 runs, 2 hits, and 2 walks. Just stating the company line here.

[tobi0040]

Well, Berrios didn't pitch well enough for a promotion last night. He had one of those "big innings" with resulted in 3 runs, 2 hits, and 2 walks. Just stating the company line here.

Yeah. With an inning like that he has no shot to be as good as Duffey, Nolasco, or Milone.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Yeah. With an inning like that he has no shot to be as good as Duffey, Nolasco, or Milone.

 

That might be the funniest things I've read in a while. I get the sarcasm...just made me laugh.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Honestly though, watching Berrios' development reminds me how the Twins handled Matt Garza in 2007. That spring training in '07 Garza clearly out performed Carlos Silva, a #5 type starter who had a horrendous spring training, yet won the #5 spot instead of Garza. The Twins threw out the same bogus quotes on what Garza needed to improve on and quite frankly I believe it was the Twins who ruined Garza, not the other way around. The Twins were more than happy to paint Garza as a cancer, and yet not help develop him even though at that time Garza's ceiling in '07 by most MLB scouts was that of an ace. I just see right now the Twins screwing over Berrios with these dumb expectations of him. I just hope the Twins don't ruin Berrios' personality, because I like Berrios not just for his talent alone, but for his competitive nature, humility, and work ethic.

Edited July 28, 2016 by FormerMinnasotan

[amjgt]

If we trade a starter before the deadline, Berrios better be the replacement.

 

If we don't trade a starter before the deadline, Berrios better replace Duffy.

 

I was perfectly willing to allow Milone and Nolasco to play out the string to the trade deadline and I've been perfectly willing to let Duffy work things out in the Majors, but if Berrios makes one more start at AAA it has to be one of the most baffling, moronic, unforgivable decisions in Twins Front Office history.