July 21, 201610 yr I respectfully disagree. Milone for sure and Nolasco to a lesser extend would be viewed, by teams that are desperate, as stopgaps. Short term success might not portend long-term success, but the short term success could continue. Analytics might not recognize that players can "get on a roll" but you'd be niave to think that it's not a real thingNobody thinks that short term, where they are going to give up something of value (money or prospects) for Nolasco or Milone at this point based on 2 starts.
July 21, 201610 yr Yeah. Nolasco is the definition of negative value. He is putting up worse than replacement level numbers and also owed a fair amount of money.
July 21, 201610 yr True, but he has gone long stretches with OPS over .800 (and to date has one I might add). Granted the slumps count to, though some of that is explainable. I think Polanco can be a good player. I don't think it's a given he will be better than Dozier. I do think he can be an above average 2B, which is why I trade BD every day. 2 more years, even if BD puts up a .900 OPS while playing GG defense, and then he's an FA taking the highest dollar and entering his decline... right when the team is entering its prime. Makes little sense to keep him. I'd say BD is far from GG D, Fangraphs would agree. hot and cold streaks aren't the players you want either. consistently good players are every team's dream
July 21, 201610 yr Nobody thinks that short term, where they are going to give up something of value (money or prospects) for Nolasco or Milone at this point based on 2 starts.When you trade anyone there is no point in making the trade if you do not get anything of value back. Even the "negative" value of Drew Butera brought back a prospect that brought back an All Star
July 21, 201610 yr When you trade anyone there is no point in making the trade if you do not get anything of value back. Even the "negative" value of Drew Butera brought back a prospect that brought back an All StarWe have a ton of players that won't be on the next good team and they are blocking players that might be. So there is a ton of value in clearing spots. Hopefully the issue (TR) has been removed and we can get on with it
July 21, 201610 yr I'd say BD is far from GG D, Fangraphs would agree. hot and cold streaks aren't the players you want either. consistently good players are every team's dream You're missing my point I'm not saying he's a GG. I am saying that he's under control for 2 years and EVEN IF he puts up a .900 OPS playing GG defense, I'd still trade him. As someone else mentioned, decline will kick in for him sooner than later (though I'm not sure it will be on his current contract) and we have a nice promising player in Polanco who has nothing left to prove in the minors. I'm not sure Polanco can ever do what Dozier has done this year, but I think Polanco can be above average at the plate and in the field.
July 21, 201610 yr Berrios is listed as the AAA starter tomorrow. If I was the number two I would have been pounding the table for him to have never have been demoted after four starts. After the demotion for him to be back. And that would have been a day 1 priority as interim GM
July 21, 201610 yr Berrios is listed as the AAA starter tomorrow.If I was the number two I would have been pounding the table for him to have never have been demoted after four starts. After the demotion for him to be back. And that would have been a day 1 priority as interim GMAfter 4 starts he was beaten up and had lost his confidence. I believe priority #1 is getting Berrios to Target Field. Whether it happens today, tommorrow, or the next day is immaterial, it will happen. In a late response, to one of you're earlier posts, Jim Pohlad has no idea who Berrios or Chargois are.
July 21, 201610 yr You're missing my point I'm not saying he's a GG. I am saying that he's under control for 2 years and EVEN IF he puts up a .900 OPS playing GG defense, I'd still trade him. As someone else mentioned, decline will kick in for him sooner than later (though I'm not sure it will be on his current contract) and we have a nice promising player in Polanco who has nothing left to prove in the minors. I'm not sure Polanco can ever do what Dozier has done this year, but I think Polanco can be above average at the plate and in the field. I don't mind the idea of trading Dozier, but the problem is that there aren't a lot of contenders that really need a 2B. I don't think it makes sense to force a deal, because he is under control for the next few seasons and it still showing he can produce. Find a time when the demand is exceeding the supply and move him then. Definitely need to move Nunez though, his bat, speed and positional versatility would be welcome on almost on any team and Polanco can take that role for the short term.
July 21, 201610 yr After 4 starts he was beaten up and had lost his confidence. I believe priority #1 is getting Berrios to Target Field. Whether it happens today, tommorrow, or the next day is immaterial, it will happen. In a late response, to one of you're earlier posts, Jim Pohlad has no idea who Berrios or Chargois are.I will have to respectfully disagree with you. It was four starts. At some point these guys have to take lumps and battle through it. Carlos Rodon walked 19 batters in his first 22 innings and they let him throw 139 innings last year. It may just inspire confidence in a player that their team believes in them despite a bad outing or two.
July 21, 201610 yr I will have to respectfully disagree with you. It was four starts. At some point these guys have to take lumps and battle through it.Carlos Rodon walked 19 batters in his first 22 innings and they let him throw 139 innings last year. It may just inspire confidence in a player that their team believes in them despite a bad outing or two.You can't compare a college pitcher, who was taken 3rd in the draft, to Berrios. I do agree at some point they do have to take their lumps, but not their first time in The Show. I believe it was Molly who said he was badly shaken and needed to regroup. At the time, he was the 5th youngest player in the majors. Edited July 21, 201610 yr by howieramone2
July 21, 201610 yr You can't compare a college pitcher, who was taken 3rd in the draft, to Berrios. I do agree at some point they do have to take their lumps, but not their first time in The Show. I believe it was Molly who said he was badly shaken and needed to regroup. At the time, he was the 5th youngest player in the majors.They were both 22 when they debuted. Berrios was the 15th best prospect before the season. I don't think draft position means a lot here given all of that They just haven't let their guys struggle at all. Edited July 21, 201610 yr by tobi0040
July 22, 201610 yr You're missing my point I'm not saying he's a GG. I am saying that he's under control for 2 years and EVEN IF he puts up a .900 OPS playing GG defense, I'd still trade him. As someone else mentioned, decline will kick in for him sooner than later (though I'm not sure it will be on his current contract) and we have a nice promising player in Polanco who has nothing left to prove in the minors. I'm not sure Polanco can ever do what Dozier has done this year, but I think Polanco can be above average at the plate and in the field.You're forgetting Dozier was one of the worst 2nd basemen in the league the first 2 months.. his year has not been impressive. his last 45 days have. but I see your point i want to trade him too. Edited July 22, 201610 yr by jsteve96
July 22, 201610 yr We have a ton of players that won't be on the next good team and they are blocking players that might be. So there is a ton of value in clearing spots.Hopefully the issue (TR) has been removed and we can get on with itMissed the point completely, as badly as a Drew Butera swing. Edited July 22, 201610 yr by The Wise One
July 22, 201610 yr You're forgetting Dozier was one of the worst 2nd basemen in the league the first 2 months.. his year has not been impressive. his last 45 days have. but I see your point i want to trade him too. GOOD LORD. Re-read my posts instead of incessantly arguing against a point I'm not trying to make. I never said BD had a good year this year or a bad one. I'm not saying he is capable of hitting .900 OPS and playing GG defense. I am saying that even IF he does that in 2017/2018, you trade him b/c we have a capable in house replacement and BD is only under contract 2 more years.
July 22, 201610 yr It's still time......another day, How was Boshers last night?Mike, I turned the game off. Did he pull an Alex Meyer?
July 22, 201610 yr Mike, I turned the game off. Did he pull an Alex Meyer?No, it sounds like he actually got into a game.
July 22, 201610 yr Mike, I turned the game off. Did he pull an Alex Meyer? not sure what "pull an Alex Meyer" means..... 1.1 innings, 2 ER
July 22, 201610 yr They were both 22 when they debuted. Berrios was the 15th best prospect before the season. I don't think draft position means a lot here given all of thatThey just haven't let their guys struggle at all.Duffey. The big picture is we need Berrios to go into ST penciled into the #4 slot. This is one of the few we really can't afford to miss on. It doesn't matter how they do it as long as they do. Plenty of time to end up with 15 starts in The Show.
July 22, 201610 yr Plenty of time to end up with 15 starts in The Show.Not a whole lot of time left anymore. They pretty much have to have Berrios up by August 1st to reach 15 MLB starts in 2016, and that's assuming he starts every 5th game thereafter -- no injuries, extra rest, etc.
July 23, 201610 yr Not a whole lot of time left anymore. They pretty much have to have Berrios up by August 1st to reach 15 MLB starts in 2016, and that's assuming he starts every 5th game thereafter -- no injuries, extra rest, etc.I wasn't real clear about it, but I was including the 4 he already has. 15 starts is roughly half a season. Gibson had 8 in 2013, and May had 8 in 2014. Another member and I discussed the need to let young pitchers work thru their troubles. I would give Berrios the ball every 5 days come hell or high water for the rest of the season. He should be ready for center stage day one of 2017.
July 23, 201610 yr I wasn't real clear about it, but I was including the 4 he already has. 15 starts is roughly half a season. Gibson had 8 in 2013, and May had 8 in 2014. Another member and I discussed the need to let young pitchers work thru their troubles. I would give Berrios the ball every 5 days come hell or high water for the rest of the season. He should be ready for center stage day one of 2017.Aug 1 would get him 10 or 11 more starts, so I'm guessing spycake was including those 4 as well.
July 23, 201610 yr Our new GM with be no more popular on the fan board than TR. The honeymoon may last 2 weeks, but then it's back to business as usual. That certainly oesn't sound you're too confident in the Twins ongoing GM search and selection process...
July 24, 201610 yr Why Is the bar for Polanco to be a .350 hitter? Was Dozier a .350 milb hitter?I think one could compare Polanco to Dozier at the same age and easily make a case for projecting Polanco to be at least as good as Dozier in a couple of years.I'm not sure we would have projected Dozier to be as good as he has become (although I would have expected a higher BA and OBP, but not as much power.) They are tough to compare because Dozier was a college guy who tore up AA (OPS .885) at age 24. Polanco won't get the chance because he will be out of options next year at age 23. He has never approached what Dozier did that year, but then his .725 OPS last year between AA and AAA at age 21 is good enough to make it hard to compare with a 24-yr-old.
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