Article: Twins Minor League Report (7/18): Gonsalves Dazzles, Park Goes Yard

[Eric R Pleiss]

In baseball, as in life, the only constant is change. The Terry Ryan Era has come to an end and with Rob Antony in charge, it will be an interesting couple of weeks until the trade deadline. In the short term, the change should not have any impact on the Twins Minor League organizations or day to day business with the affiliates, but when a new General Manager arrives later this year or during the offseason, expect to see a slew of changes.Transaction Report: Brandon Peterson promoted to Chattanooga Lookouts from Fort Myers Miracle, Brian Olson promoted to Fort Myers Miracle from Cedar Rapids Kernels, Brian Navarreto placed on the disabled list for the Fort Myers Miracle.

 

Continue reading to find out more details about Thursday in the Twins farm system:

 

RED WINGS REPORT

Durham Bulls @ Rochester

Box Score

 

The Red Wings fell behind 3-0 after an inning, but came back to tie the game at 4-4 with a pair of runs in the bottom of the ninth inning on a two-run single from Jorge Polanco. With one out and a man on first, the Wings had Daniel Palka up to bat and Adam Walker II on deck. They both struck out and play continued into the tenth inning, when manager Mike Quade was ejected and new pitcher Buddy Boshers gave up five runs, including a grand slam.

 

Byung Ho Park was 3-5 with a double, a solo home run and a walk. Wilfredo Tovar also had a three-hit game, going 3-5 with a double. Jorge Polanco was 2-5 with a run scored, a solo home run, and the previously mentioned two-RBI single. Adam Walker was 2-5 with a solo home run and a walk.

 

Jason Wheeler gave up four runs (one earned) on just five hits. He walked one and struck out seven. The Red Wings bullpen then went to work as D.J. Baxendale, Ryan O'Rourke and Alex Wimmers combined for 4.0 innings of scoreless ball. The trio of relievers struck out eight and gave up just three hits. And then Buddy Boshers came in and gave up five runs (all unearned), and was tagged with the loss. In 10 innings the Rochester staff struck out 17 batters and walked just 5.

 

Final: Bulls 9, Red Wings 5

 

LOOKOUTS LOOK-IN

Mobile BayBears @ Chattanooga

Box Score

 

The Lookouts didn't score until the bottom of the eighth inning, but they put 3 runs on the board which was enough to earn the win. Starter Stephen Gonsalves did not factor in the decision, but pitched a great game. He went 7.0 innings, gave up just a pair of hits, one run, walked two and he stuck out nine. Zack Jones earned the victory, pitching a scoreless eighth inning, and Trevor Hildenberger earned his 16th save of the year with a perfect ninth inning.

 

The Lookouts were shut out for the first seven innings, and recorded just a handful of hits before that 3-run eight. Mitch Garver was 2-4 with a double and an RBI to lead the team. Edgar Corcino was 2-3 with a double and an RBI is of his own. Ryan Walker had the remaining RBI as part of an 0-3 night with 2 strike outs.

Final: BayBears 1, Lookouts 3

 

MIRACLE MATTERS

Lakeland Flying Tigers @ Fort Myers

Box Score

 

Down 5-2 after four innings of play, the Miracle made it as close as one run, but couldn't score late against the Flying Tigers' bullpen. Miracle Starter Miles Nordgren had a tough evening, giving up five runs (all earned) over 6.0 innings. He gave up eight hits, walked two, struck out three, and gave up a pair of home runs. Luke Westphal gave up an eighth inning run, and Todd Van Steensel finished the game with 1.2 innings of no-hit baseball, striking out a pair along the way.

 

T.J. White had HALF of the Miracle hits on Thursday night, 3-5 with a double, a triple, two runs scored and a pair of strike outs. Not much else going on for the Miracle, but Tanner Witt and Trey Vavra each picked up an RBI, and Chris Paul hit a double.

Final: Flying Tigers 6, Miracle 4

 

KERNELS KORNER

Cedar Rapids @ Fort Wayne TinCaps

Box Score

 

In Fort Wayne the Kernels were tied 2-2 after six innings, and needed an extra frame of baseball to pick up the victory. In the top of the 10th, Luis Arraez circled the bases with a triple down the right field line, advancing home on a throwing error. Williams Ramirez locked things down in the bottom half of the inning to preserve the lead, earning his fourth save of the season.

 

Miracle starter Cody Stashak gave the Kernels a quality start with 6.0 innings. He gave up 6 hits, two earned runs, walked one and struck out two. Andrew Vasquez was phenomenal in relief, earning the victory thanks to 3.0 innings of one-hit baseball. Vasquez gave up just one hit and struck out six, before turning things over to Ramirez in the 10th.

 

The Kernels struck out 13 times on the night and we just 1-7 with runners in scoring position, but a win is a win. Luis Arraez led the team with three hits, 3-4 with a triple, two runs scored, and a walk. Casey Scoggins, J.J. Fernandez, and Chris Ibarra also added two hits apiece.

Final: Kernels 3, TinCaps 2

 

E-TWINS E-NOTES

Elizabethton @ Princeton Rays

Box Score

 

In an absolute slug-fest at Hunnicutt Field in West Virginia, the Twins crawled their way back to a one-run deficit at 9-10 before giving up six runs in the bottom of the seventh inning to put the game out of reach. Despite scoring nine runs, the Twins had zero extra-base hits. Mitchell Kranson led the team with four hits, 4-5 with two RBI and two runs scored.

 

Twins pitching struggled throughout, as you might expect. Starter Jose Martinez gave up six runs over 3.0 innings. Relievers Austin Tribby and Hector Lujan each pitched 2.0 innings, giving up four runs and six runs, respectively. Alex Robinson was the only pitcher, on either team, to leave the game unscathed, pitching a scoreless eighth inning.

 

Final: E-Twins 9, Rays 16

 

GCL TWINS TALK

GCL Twins @ GCL Rays

Box Score

 

The Twins managed just six hits on the evening, two each from Jose Miranda (2-3 with a double, a run scored and a walk), and Gorge Munoz (2-2 with an RBI, a run scored, and a walk). Starter Tyler Fox didn't make it out of the first inning, leaving the game after recording just one out. He was ultimately responsible for three runs, giving up four hits, walking one and striking out one. Taylor Clemensia came in and righted the ship, giving the Twins 3.2 innings of shutout baseball. He gave up no hits, walked one and struck out five. Clark Beeker gave up a pair of runs over 3.2 innings, and Onas Farfan recorded the final two outs of the game, one by strike out.

Final: GCL Twins 2, GCL Rays 5

 

DSL TWINS TAKES

DSL Twins @ DSL Cubs2

Box Score

 

The Twins jumped out to an early lead and were up 5-0 before the Cubs2 were on the board. The Twins scored all five runs on just six hits. Edgar Herrera led the team with two hits, part of a 2-4 night that included an RBI. The Twins pitching staff did not allow a single earned run on the evening. Starter Juan Mojica earned his second win of the season with 5.0 scoreless innings. Amilcar Cruz pitched 3.0 innings of relief and was charged with a pair of unearned runs. Fredderi Soto earned the save with a quick 1-2-3 ninth.

 

Final: DSL Twins 5, GCL Cubs2 2

 

 

TWINS DAILY MINOR LEAGUE PLAYERS OF THE DAY

 

Hitter of the Day - Byung Ho Park, Rochester

Pitcher of the Day - Stephen Gonsalves, Chattanooga

 

 

TUESDAY'S PROBABLES

 

Durham Bulls @ Rochester (6:05pm) - LHP Pat Dean

Chattanooga - OFF

Lakeland Flying Tigers @ Fort Myers (6:05pm) - Keaton Steele (4-8, 4.37)

Cedar Rapids - OFF

Kingsport Mets @ E-Twins (6:00pm) - Tyler Beardsley (0-0, 2.25)

GCL Rays @ GCL Twins (11:00am) - TBD

DSL Cubs 2 @ DSL Twins (9:30am) - TBD

Please ask questions and discuss the Monday games.

 

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[nytwinsfan]

Twins really need to trade Suzuki so that Garver can either be called up or more likely sent to Rochester. No reason for him to be at Chattanooga now. Either that or send one of Murphy or Centeno to Chattanooga. Garver should be at AAA or MLB. We need to see what he can do against better pitching.

[Taildragger8791]

Interesting to note that ABW III is on pace to have one of his best months in terms of balance between SO% and BB% while still producing. In the past it was always a tradeoff between those things. BB% is around his career norm (9.7%) while SO% is down to 29% for the month of July, down from his usual 40%. He could just be swinging a hot bat but hopefully it's a sign he's starting to see pitches better. I wish I knew how to make this table not look huge, but the data is interesting to see.

 

[table]
 

MonthABRH2B3BHRRBIBBSOAVGOBPSLGSO%BB%
  April '1566916405116290.2420.3010.53040.3%8.3%
  May '151072327717287390.2520.3040.53334.2%6.1%
  June '159518307111288410.3160.3710.75839.8%7.8%
  July '151007215131711420.2100.2860.37037.8%9.9%
  Aug '1510913217031718360.1930.3050.33928.3%14.2%
  Sept '1525551025180.2000.2220.48030.8%3.8%
  April '166181431273250.2300.2660.41039.1%4.7%
  May '169312202081313490.2150.3150.49546.2%12.3%
  June '169212196051811420.2070.2830.43540.8%10.7%
  July '1656102151386180.3750.4440.66129.0%9.7%
[/table]

[Eric R Pleiss]

We'll have to see how it goes over more than 10-12 games.  He doesn't have to change a lot, to be a valuable dude, but he has a lot of dudes to get past if he's going to be playing for the Twins.

Interesting to note that ABW III is on pace to have one of his best months in terms of balance between SO% and BB% while still producing. In the past it was always a tradeoff between those things. BB% is around his career norm (9.7%) while SO% is down to 29% for the month of July, down from his usual 40%. He could just be swinging a hot bat but hopefully it's a sign he's starting to see pitches better. I wish I knew how to make this table not look huge, but the data is interesting to see.

 

 

[nytwinsfan]

 

Interesting to note that ABW III is on pace to have one of his best months in terms of balance between SO% and BB% while still producing. In the past it was always a tradeoff between those things. BB% is around his career norm (9.7%) while SO% is down to 29% for the month of July, down from his usual 40%. He could just be swinging a hot bat but hopefully it's a sign he's starting to see pitches better. I wish I knew how to make this table not look huge, but the data is interesting to see.

 

[table]

 

Serious question, how did you get that table to look so nice? Also, note, August 2015 his BB and K rates were even better. Good to see, but want to see him sustain sub-30% K rate for more than a month before I get too much hope.

[Taildragger8791]

 

We'll have to see how it goes over more than 10-12 games.  He doesn't have to change a lot, to be a valuable dude, but he has a lot of dudes to get past if he's going to be playing for the Twins.

 

Totally agree, I'm not even an ABW III disciple. Just interesting to note actual progress in all 3 areas for a change. He's at 15 games for July, btw, so a little over half a month's worth of games.

[Eric R Pleiss]

Carlos Paulino is the other catcher in Rochester.  Probably not going anywhere with how poorly Murphy has played.  Garver has been on a steady year-by-year path, and has worked well for him.  No reason to rush.  Once he's up to AAA, then he's probably next man up.  I'd expect that Murphy and Garver compete for playing time next season.

 

Suzuki is still 260ish plate appearances away from having his contract vested for 2017, so he's likely out the door (sooner if Rob Antony finds a way to trade him while his value has rebounded).  If that happens, then I could see Garver moving up to AAA before the season ends.

Twins really need to trade Suzuki so that Garver can either be called up or more likely sent to Rochester. No reason for him to be at Chattanooga now. Either that or send one of Murphy or Centeno to Chattanooga. Garver should be at AAA or MLB. We need to see what he can do against better pitching.

 

[Han Joelo]

I'm excited for Gonsalves and the other AA pitchers. Hard not to see some or all of them factoring in some way to next years rotation.

[Eric R Pleiss]

Definitely a good time to feel some optimism in the Twins pitching ranks down in the Minor Leagues.  Only a matter of time before Berrios is back, and there is another wave of young talent right behind him.  Baseball America had the Twins 2019 rotation predicted to be:

No. 1 Starter Jose Berrios
No. 2 Starter Stephen Gonsalves
No. 3 Starter Kohl Stewart
No. 4 Starter Felix Jorge
No. 5 Starter Fernando Romero

Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/midseason-update-2016-minnesota-twins/#ybZoETQAHkHuAHSP.99

 

I'm excited for Gonsalves and the other AA pitchers. Hard not to see some or all of them factoring in some way to next years rotation.

 

[howieramone2]

Our troubles have nothing to do with catching. I'm guessing we add Berrios and another youngish starting pitcher to the rotation in 2017. I much prefer them throwing to Suzuki, than Murphy or Garver. Ramos is a pipe dream, and I wouldn't overpay an injury prone catcher.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Serious question, how did you get that table to look so nice? Also, note, August 2015 his BB and K rates were even better. Good to see, but want to see him sustain sub-30% K rate for more than a month before I get too much hope.

 

His August 2015 BB and K rates were better but his production was down (hit .193/.305/.339 with only 3 HRs). The reason I pointed out his numbers this July is because he maintained or improved production while bringing down his K rate and maintaining his BB rate.

 

I made the table by using a website that creates the HTML code, then using a text editor to find/replace the "<" and ">" with "[" and "]" to convert from HTML to the BB codes this site recognizes. The site I used was:

 

http://www.tablesgenerator.com/html_tables

 

Make sure to turn off the "generate css" option. I created and imported a .csv file in Excel to load the data into the table.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Twins really need to trade Suzuki so that Garver can either be called up or more likely sent to Rochester. No reason for him to be at Chattanooga now. Either that or send one of Murphy or Centeno to Chattanooga. Garver should be at AAA or MLB. We need to see what he can do against better pitching.

 

Cleveland rocks! Cleveland rocks!

[h2oface]

Can the Buddy Boshers era please end now, too?

[nytwinsfan]

 

Our troubles have nothing to do with catching. I'm guessing we add Berrios and another youngish starting pitcher to the rotation in 2017. I much prefer them throwing to Suzuki, than Murphy or Garver. Ramos is a pipe dream, and I wouldn't overpay an injury prone catcher.

Ummm, they don't? The last month and a half our catcher has been fine, but April and May also happened you know . . . As did the second half of 2015. Just so we're clear, since the beginning of the 2015 season, Suzuki's line is as follows:  .255/.305/.352 (.657). According to Fangraphs he's been worth 0.6 WAR during that time period and is 23rd in the majors in wOBA (over 400 PAs) with mediocre at-best defense. Other than maybe CF and the rotation, it is our biggest liability.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Our troubles have nothing to do with catching. I'm guessing we add Berrios and another youngish starting pitcher to the rotation in 2017. I much prefer them throwing to Suzuki, than Murphy or Garver. Ramos is a pipe dream, and I wouldn't overpay an injury prone catcher.

 

Agree on the Ramos thing... however, a guy like Gonsalves has a great rapport with Garver. They've worked together the last 3 or 4 seasons. I have no problem with letting them continue to work together. 

[nytwinsfan]

 

Agree on the Ramos thing... however, a guy like Gonsalves has a great rapport with Garver. They've worked together the last 3 or 4 seasons. I have no problem with letting them continue to work together. 

 

Seth, more generally, what kind of reviews does Garver get on his receiving? Seems like he has the most upside on the hitting side of any catcher in our system by far (other than maybe Rortvedt who is a long long ways away). If he's even a slightly below average receiver, he should probably be in the Twins plans for the next couple years.

[scottz]

Just to bang the Zach Granite drum again, he went 1 for 3 and is hitting .309. He also stole his 35th base in 43 attempts (81% success).

 

Edit: math

Edited July 19, 2016 by scottz

[Jham]

 

Other than maybe CF and the rotation, it [catching] is our biggest liability.

Interesting point.  Perhaps it could be a separate thread, but take price and prospect rankings out of the picture, and which positions would be easiest to upgrade?

Upgrading the rotation seems obvious, but the effect of an upgrade only pays dividends once every 5 games (pitchers don't win MVP's argument).  So I would say the areas where we could plug in one player and improve the most, on average, would be center field and first base by far.  This is an odd juxtaposition since both of those positions seem absolutely entrenched for the next couple seasons meaning that they either have to improve greatly, or the team will have to work harder to improve in other areas to win despite them.  

It's a horrible position to be in as a GM or manager, because the best you can do is really just run them out there and hope for the best.  

So then where do we upgrade?  I'm hesitant to sign any veteran pitchers that would be considered an upgrade given the market.  And again, our return may be diminished by a 5th...  (of course a hitter only takes 1/9th of the at bats and maybe a 15% of plays in the field for a short stop?)  Sano is putting up Plouffe/Valencia type numbers.  We could probably upgrade pretty easily from Rosario/Grossman for not a ton of money, but both are young and have shown bursts.  I would argue that Erv and Doz, and Zuke is playing himself into that position, are perhaps our 3 most difficult players to replace, but are also maybe the 3 likeliest to be traded.  

Otherwise we're just hoping that everybody just starts playing better (a lot better), or in Nunez case, keeps playing well.  

From a trade standpoint, Sano's return value compared to the ease of replacing or upgrading would probably make by far the most sense based on his current level of production.  Do we continue to hope for better play or tear the whole thing down?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Can the Buddy Boshers era please end now, too?

 

Since he' s been really solid all year, I don't see why.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Seth, more generally, what kind of reviews does Garver get on his receiving? Seems like he has the most upside on the hitting side of any catcher in our system by far (other than maybe Rortvedt who is a long long ways away). If he's even a slightly below average receiver, he should probably be in the Twins plans for the next couple years.

 

From decision-makers, they often say that he's made big improvements. He's still not considered (defensively) in the same category as Turner. Stats show Garver as being good defensively.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Garver was a good defender in college, being the runner up to Turner for the big defensive award that year.  He's just not Turner level.  I'm fine with that given that his bat might be above average to go with good but not great defense.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Interesting to note that ABW III is on pace to have one of his best months in terms of balance between SO% and BB% while still producing. In the past it was always a tradeoff between those things. BB% is around his career norm (9.7%) while SO% is down to 29% for the month of July, down from his usual 40%. He could just be swinging a hot bat but hopefully it's a sign he's starting to see pitches better. I wish I knew how to make this table not look huge, but the data is interesting to see.

 

 

 

His peripherals have been slowly improving over the last year, though his production hasn't caught up. Hopefully this is a sign that the production is starting to be impacted by those peripherals.  I suspect he gets another season in AAA, which will be the real judge on whether or not Walker has figured it out.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Interesting point.  Perhaps it could be a separate thread, but take price and prospect rankings out of the picture, and which positions would be easiest to upgrade?

Upgrading the rotation seems obvious, but the effect of an upgrade only pays dividends once every 5 games (pitchers don't win MVP's argument).  So I would say the areas where we could plug in one player and improve the most, on average, would be center field and first base by far.  This is an odd juxtaposition since both of those positions seem absolutely entrenched for the next couple seasons meaning that they either have to improve greatly, or the team will have to work harder to improve in other areas to win despite them.  

It's a horrible position to be in as a GM or manager, because the best you can do is really just run them out there and hope for the best.  

So then where do we upgrade?  I'm hesitant to sign any veteran pitchers that would be considered an upgrade given the market.  And again, our return may be diminished by a 5th...  (of course a hitter only takes 1/9th of the at bats and maybe a 15% of plays in the field for a short stop?)  Sano is putting up Plouffe/Valencia type numbers.  We could probably upgrade pretty easily from Rosario/Grossman for not a ton of money, but both are young and have shown bursts.  I would argue that Erv and Doz, and Zuke is playing himself into that position, are perhaps our 3 most difficult players to replace, but are also maybe the 3 likeliest to be traded.  

Otherwise we're just hoping that everybody just starts playing better (a lot better), or in Nunez case, keeps playing well.  

From a trade standpoint, Sano's return value compared to the ease of replacing or upgrading would probably make by far the most sense based on his current level of production.  Do we continue to hope for better play or tear the whole thing down?

 

I would try Garver at catcher but otherwise spend big on a FA catcher in the next year or two or be willing to deal some prospects to get one at the right time (when we are closer to being competitive). I would NOT trade Sano and instead give him at least a full season at 3B before I decide he can't play there.  Plouffe was a bad defensive 3B his first year or two as well, and Sano has a better arm and is at least as athletic. His concentration errors may thin out as he gets more accustomed to the position at the MLB level. 

 

Otherwise I think the place to upgrade is almost entirely pitching (we are set with plenty of options at DH/1B, Middle Infield, and OF, some of whom have already arrived and some of whom have upside but need time to see if they will arrive). Most of the pitching is going to have to come from within, but I might spend on relievers.  Mostly what I would do is trade veterans like Santana, Nunez, Suzuki and even Dozier (if someone is really willing to offer good value) for upside pitching prospects, including offering to pay off part of Santana's or even Dozier's salary, if the return was right. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by nytwinsfan

[FormerMinnasotan]

Wow, Gonsalves just keeps on rolling. His ERA now is 2.97 (I think) in AA ball. That is very impressive considering this is only his 5th start in Chattanooga. And now he is really cutting down on his walks. It will be interesting to see where he starts next year, especially if he keeps pitching like this. To pitch this well so soon coming from advanced A ball AND increase the k/9 inning rate is certainly impressive. If he keeps this up, we may see him sooner than Kohl Stewart. And who would have thought that.

[clutterheart]

Cabbage has 15 strike outs in 10 games.  That can't be good.   

[Jham]

 

I would try Garver at catcher but otherwise spend big on a FA catcher in the next year or two or be willing to deal some prospects to get one at the right time (when we are closer to being competitive). I would NOT trade Sano and instead give him at least a full season at 3B before I decide he can't play there.  Plouffe was a bad defensive 3B his first year or two as well, and Sano has a better arm and is at least as athletic. His concentration errors may thin out as he gets more accustomed to the position at the MLB level. 

 

Otherwise I think the place to upgrade is almost entirely pitching (we are set with plenty of options at DH/1B, Middle Infield, and OF, some of whom have already arrived and some of whom have upside but need time to see if they will arrive). Most of the pitching is going to have to come from within, but I might spend on relievers.  Mostly what I would do is trade veterans like Santana, Nunez, Suzuki and even Dozier (if someone is really willing to offer good value) for upside pitching prospects, including offering to pay off part of Santana's or even Dozier's salary, if the return was right. 

It's a tough puzzle.  Trading off pieces for prospects makes sense long term.  I'm just not sure where we see our window being.  If we trade for high upside arms, we're probably talking A ball unless we part with a Sano or Kepler.  If the plan for C is a bigger name FA, keeping Zuke around makes some sense until that day comes.  I just have trouble wrapping my head around a plan centered on current Twins winning 3 or more years from now.  If that's the case, we shouldn't be wasting the next few years on auditions and development.  If said prospects aren't good enough to contend in the next couple years, then why make them the center of the plan and take them off the board while their value is still high and salary still low?  We've got a window with Sano and Kep and Bux and JO, and I'm struggling with how to get enough additional talent around them in the next couple years, particularly on the mound.  And if we can't, I'm not sure it's a great idea to hold them for 3 more tear down years while we await the arrival of younger prospects who might not be better in 3 years than Ervin Santana is next year.  I also have this sneaking suspicion that Sano, Kep, Bux and JO may never be the players we were expecting/hoping.  Cleveland sort of followed your model and traded for some upside pitching prospects, and they struck gold.  So maybe that is a workable model.  They also retained Santana and Kipnis while slogging through the rebuild.  So did Cleveland get lucky or is that a repeatable model?  Hard for me to say.  I do think if we're serious about putting the timeframe out 3 years, we should really commit to it and trade at least 1 of those top 4 prospects.  

 

[nytwinsfan]

 

It's a tough puzzle.  Trading off pieces for prospects makes sense long term.  I'm just not sure where we see our window being.  If we trade for high upside arms, we're probably talking A ball unless we part with a Sano or Kepler.

 

I'm not putting the time frame out to 3 or 4 years, although realistically that is when we have the best chance of contending. Obviously there is a premium for a prospect closer to AAA than low A, but that probably involves taking a B or B- AAA pitching prospect for Santana + salary cash instead of a B+ prospect. A B- prospect is still really valuable and easily can turn into a 4 or even 3 starter if things go right. Trading Dozier might even be able to get a B+ AAA or AA prospect. There are options to get more pitching in the next year or two, and Gonsalves, Jay and Stewart should be ready by 2018 at the latest, if not late 2017, which is really only 1 year away.

 

We've got a window with Sano and Kep and Bux and JO, and I'm struggling with how to get enough additional talent around them in the next couple years, particularly on the mound.  And if we can't, I'm not sure it's a great idea to hold them for 3 more tear down years while we await the arrival of younger prospects who might not be better in 3 years than Ervin Santana is next year.  I also have this sneaking suspicion that Sano, Kep, Bux and JO may never be the players we were expecting/hoping.

 

This part makes zero sense to me. If we trade them, what do we get? Seriously? Other prospects? Trading them for veterans? Really? We're going to give up on the rebuild and try to have one or two decent (not great) years of veteran baseball before injuries and aging kick in? Uggh, count me out. There is always risk in prospects (although less when you have many of them) but that's still much much better than the other options at this point. Of the four players you mention in the last sentence, the only one to have any concern about is Buxton, because he is the only one who has struggled for a sustained period of time at the MLB level. And even he is way way too early to be pessimistic about. And while Berrios has only killed it at AAA, Kepler and Sano both look like above average regulars with All Star upside. Hardly something to get down about.

Edited July 19, 2016 by nytwinsfan

[h2oface]

Since he' s been really solid all year, I don't see why.

Well, after the lead off batter got on base via an error, he imploded with two outs and 5 runs and a grand slam later his ERA is 0 for the game. Looks pretty good for this game on paper, too.Boshers is another of Ryan's off season bullpen fixes, 28 yrs old that nobody wanted, and a Rochester place holder. I have higher expectations for success I guess, and patience is frayed. Maybe things will change now that Ryan is gone, and guys like this won't be called up instead of prospects that are part of the future.

[Jham]

 

I'm not putting the time frame out to 3 or 4 years, although realistically that is when we have the best chance of contending. Obviously there is a premium for a prospect closer to AAA than low A, but that probably involves taking a B or B- AAA pitching prospect for Santana + salary cash instead of a B+ prospect. A B- prospect is still really valuable and easily can turn into a 4 or even 3 starter if things go right. Trading Dozier might even be able to get a B+ AAA or AA prospect. There are options to get more pitching in the next year or two, and Gonsalves, Jay and Stewart should be ready by 2018 at the latest, if not late 2017, which is really only 1 year away.

 

 

This part makes zero sense to me. If we trade them, what do we get? Seriously? Other prospects? Trading them for veterans? Really? We're going to give up on the rebuild and try to have one or two decent (not great) years of veteran baseball before injuries and aging kick in? Uggh, count me out. There is always risk in prospects (although less when you have many of them) but that's still much much better than the other options at this point. Of the four players you mention in the last sentence, the only one to have any concern about is Buxton, because he is the only one who has struggled for a sustained period of time at the MLB level. And even he is way way too early to be pessimistic about. And while Berrios has only killed it at AAA, Kepler and Sano both look like above average regulars with All Star upside. Hardly something to get down about.

I'd consider trading for a haul including a potential ace and prospects closer to the Majors.  If we have no potential aces other than slim possibility of Jay, and we're not realistically signing one, I don't know how we acquire one without having to give up an arm and a leg later.
 

[d-mac]

 

Can the Buddy Boshers era please end now, too?

 

You mean that guy that has averaged a sub 2.00 ERA, sub 3.00 FIP, and a K/9 > 9.50 between AAA and MLB this year?