Article: Twins Fire General Manager Terry Ryan

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Santana is an overpaid #3, Gibson is a #4 who isn't that young any more. Those are the exact guys you need to be trading.

I don't disagree.

 

I only question whether Antony is capable of getting the right return on those players. Both are under contract and have value. The last thing I want to see is them handed away for junk.

[wsnydes]

 

I think the real question is how much reign he will actually have.  I don't think anyone knows how close or not close Ryan and Antony are.  They very well could have had the majority of the same views on how to run the team.  Antony has been with the Twins for 17 years?  I think they probably know what they have in him.  I highly doubt ownership is going to let Antony step in and just start wheeling and dealing, especially if the plan is to bring in someone from outside the organization to take the job.  

Then why make a move?  TR could have done that without doing a thing.

 

I agree, Antony may not have full authority to wheel and deal at will, but I have to believe that he's in a position to do plenty otherwise a move wouldn't have been made in the first place.

[mazeville]

 

Firing a GM midseason is a statement move.

 

If Rob Antony is GM on December 1st, I'll be shocked. Ownership doesn't can a GM who has been with the franchise for over 30 years (especially a loyalty-based team like the Twins) and then hire his hand-picked successor four months later.

 

Maybe so. It sure looks like this is a statement from the team in advance of the trade deadline and as fans look to renew their season tickets.

 

But this is a team that has rehired each of the past two major people it has fired into "special assistant" positions. Both Bill Smith and Ron Gardenhire, two guys who for all intents and purposes should be out of the organization, are still working for the Twins.

 

So you'll excuse me if I'm not that confident this "statement" will lead to someone being hired from outside the organization. This team hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt after these six years.

 

 

[whydidnt]

My view is Ryan came to the Pohlads with an offer that required the team to eat money on a couple of Ryan's signings. The Pohlads sole interst is $ and they said if that's the only way to turn things around, you're out. As someone with a good friend that worked for Carl for close to 20 years, their true loyalty is to money. They will be loyal to you as long as the numbers look good. We saw it with Smith, and heard JP indicate he thought they were spending too much for what they got during the total system failure article. We'll never know for sure, Ryan isn't going to spill the beans and tell us what really happened regarding budgets the last 5 years.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

 

Maybe so. It sure looks like this is a statement from the team in advance of the trade deadline and as fans look to renew their season tickets.

 

But this is a team that has rehired each of the past two major people it has fired into "special assistant" positions. Both Bill Smith and Ron Gardenhire, two guys who for all intents and purposes should be out of the organization, are still working for the Twins.

 

So you'll excuse me if I'm not that confident this "statement" will lead to someone being hired from outside the organization. This team hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt after these six years.

 

I guess the first concern I have about this is that you ignore the successes that these folks have.  I do agree that the org needs new blood, but fire for the sake of firing is not a good thing either.  Smith did bring some value to the org, just not as a GM.  Putting a guy like that back in a position to which they were competent in is not bad practice.  Bad practice is firing a competent guy b/c he/she was part of the old regime, not due to the quality of his/her work. 

 

No doubt, things need to change in the org, but believe it or not, they can get worse. 

[Willihammer]

As for the timing, maybe it was the three games this weekend.

 

Starting pitching got outpitched in all three games.

Sano forced to sit due to butchering 3B

Santana forced to CF due to Buxton struggles

Losing 2/3 at home, in ugly fashion, when the team is supposed to be turning a corner.

 

And if you caught Inside Twins before Sunday's game, TR was asked about Sano's glove, Buxton, the offense, trade deadline, and he kind of shrugged at all the questions. Didn't seem to have an answer for any of it.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcasts/index.jsp?c_id=min

 

Maybe Jim just said enough is enough and made the move.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Willihammer

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But this is a team that has rehired each of the past two major people it has fired into "special assistant" positions. Both Bill Smith and Ron Gardenhire, two guys who for all intents and purposes should be out of the organization, are still working for the Twins.

I strongly disagree.

 

Gardenhire and Smith can be assets and good management realizes that just because a person failed in one role doesn't mean you discard them as a failure in all roles.

 

Wanting Gardenhire and Smith out of the organization is an emotional response. Smith is a capable administrator who never should have been named general manager. That's not his fault, that's ownership's fault. Throwing Smith to the curb because ownership put him in a role he was not equipped to fill is arrogance and stupidity on the part of ownership; they're putting their failure to hire the right person at the feet of the employee instead of themselves. If Smith was a capable administrator in 2007, he was likely just as capable of filling that role again in 2012.

 

As for Gardenhire, he's out there coaching young players on the fundamentals of baseball. That was one of Gardy's relative strengths throughout his tenure. Why wouldn't you want that guy back in that role with limited authority over player personnel? Personally, I don't care one way or the other but I understand why the Twins thought he'd be good in that role, as he seemed good at it in the past.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Let's hire Billy Beane away from the Oakland Athletics and make him President of baseball operations. Gives the organization a baseball guys that understands the need for analytics, and it gives ownership someone who will keep them in check in just giving talent away to save salary and cut payroll. With

how lousy the team has been all season you know the crowds have been really sparse this year due to the lack of competitive baseball and the horrible start to the season losing and weather. Besides giveaway days and comps the Twins have to be taking it in the sheets big time on attendance and ticket sales. It can't just be a fire sale and dump sale. I do conceed they could shed some salary and lower the payroll but they should not do it at the expense of fielding a team that has a chance to become comepetitive and a winner in the near term and long term. 

 

This Franchise needs a strong leader with a lot of experience in the game of baseball running the draft and baseball operations side of things. The first step is to hire a President that has actual baseball operations experience and not just a marketing and business side of things. They already have that guy in St Peter. They do not need another marketing person being in charge of baseball operations. 

Beane has an ownership stake in the A's. Let's put this to bed right now. Billy Beane will not leave Oakland.

[HitInAPinch]

Or, maybe a more likely scenario:  The Pohlad brothers never seemed to love Twins baseball like Carl did. 

 

The firing of Terry Ryan is the beginning of the Pohlad's prepping of the Twins for sale.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe so. It sure looks like this is a statement from the team in advance of the trade deadline and as fans look to renew their season tickets.

This might be the best explanation yet for the timing of the move.

 

Especially since, unlike Molitor as manager a couple years ago, or even bringing back TR in 2011, the new GM hire by itself probably won't generate a lot of immediate general excitement among the season ticket holders.

 

The one marketing benefit in a front office change is the dismissal, and the start of the new GM search and hype machine.

Edited July 18, 2016 by spycake

[bluechipper]

 

Beane has an ownership stake in the A's. Let's put this to bed right now. Billy Beane will not leave Oakland.

And he's made some pretty dumb moves recently anyway. He's a way overrated GM.

[Blackjack]

 

It has to be about a disagreement about the trade deadline, doesn't it? Otherwise, why now?

 

I am still stunned.....

I agree!!! WTF, why now??!! I think most people would agree that TR, with his scouting background, would make more good trades than bad but if he told Pohlad that he wasn't going to trade anybody at the deadline....

 

How much faith does anybody have in Rob Anthony??! For me, very little. And how much rope will they give him to make trades??

[Linus]

And he's made some pretty dumb moves recently anyway. He's a way overrated GM.

Agreed. He's on the other end of the spectrum from TR but there are plenty of ways to make bad decisions

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The firing of Terry Ryan is the beginning of the Pohlad's prepping of the Twins for sale.

I think the Pohlads can finally sell the team this year or next and no longer have to share proceeds with the public.  This article on the ballpark plan said they couldn't sell without sharing until 2016, although it also referenced a 2009 ballpark opening, not sure if those two dates were related:

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050425&content_id=1028208&vkey=pr_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min

[Taildragger8791]

 

Or, maybe a more likely scenario:  The Pohlad brothers never seemed to love Twins baseball like Carl did. 

 

The firing of Terry Ryan is the beginning of the Pohlad's prepping of the Twins for sale.

 

Just because they don't love baseball doesn't mean they don't love the money and opportunities that come with owning a team. The only reason to sell would be because they can get a better return on their investment elsewhere. Hard to beat out a sports franchise in terms of growing value.

 

Also, when does the penalty for selling the team run out? That was a stipulation of the shiny new ballpark we bought them.

[tobi0040]

The Pohlads selling would be more beneficial then firing Terry

[TheLeviathan]

Wow...we're sure the source isn't The Onion right?

 

Wow.

[jorgenswest]

Whatever direction the Twins take at the deadline, it will be different than the direction Ryan planned.

 

A new GM from outside should lead to an overhaul of on field personnel throughout the organization this winter. Keeping Antony would probably not lead to that overhaul.

 

If the move was about the short term deadline direction, Antony has a shot a keeping the job. If it is about long term direction, an outsider is necessary.

[gocgo]

No experienced GM is going to want this job.  It's either Antony or some other first time GM.

[mazeville]

 

 

Wanting Gardenhire and Smith out of the organization is an emotional response. Smith is a capable administrator who never should have been named general manager. That's not his fault, that's ownership's fault. Throwing Smith to the curb because ownership put him in a role he was not equipped to fill is arrogance and stupidity on the part of ownership; they're putting their failure to hire the right person at the feet of the employee instead of themselves. If Smith was a capable administrator in 2007, he was likely just as capable of filling that role again in 2012.

 

 

 

No, it is not an emotional response. It is a logical response.

 

The main problem with the Minnesota Twins is that it is an insular organization. The team brings in few outsiders. It primarily hires from within -- even Molitor had been with the organization for years. 

 

The team's loyalty and organizational consistency was a strong asset when the team was winning. But as the team started to lose, and began falling behind other teams as they adopted new strategies in the use of technology or other strategies to find talent and put together a winning team, the insular nature of the organization became a problem.

 

At that point, you need to bring in an outsider who can bring in new ideas and add life to the organization.

 

The fact that this team couldn't bring itself to truly let go two people who were in the two key positions as the team descended into 90-loss purgatory is itself a problem. It shows to the other people in the organization that there is no real penalty for failure. They can simply land softly in a job somewhere else in the organization.

 

I get that both guys have talents. But you don't keep around two people you allegedly fired simply because they have talents. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

No experienced GM is going to want this job.  It's either Antony or some other first time GM.

I'd prefer to see a first-time GM take the role but why wouldn't an experienced GM want this job? The Twins have a very good farm system and that's after they graduated a handful of young top prospects to MLB.

 

I think this is a pretty attractive job for anyone in baseball who isn't already a GM/president on a winning team. With the right moves, the Twins could be a fringe contender as early as next season and a real contender as early as 2018.

 

How often does a job like that pop up in baseball? Not very often.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No experienced GM is going to want this job.  It's either Antony or some other first time GM.

 

Base on what?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

No, it is not an emotional response. It is a logical response.

 

The main problem with the Minnesota Twins is that it is an insular organization. The team brings in few outsiders. It primarily hires from within -- even Molitor had been with the organization for years. 

 

The team's loyalty and organizational consistency was a strong asset when the team was winning. But as the team started to lose, and began falling behind other teams as they adopted new strategies in the use of technology or other strategies to find talent and put together a winning team, the insular nature of the organization became a problem.

 

At that point, you need to bring in an outsider who can bring in new ideas and add life to the organization.

 

The fact that this team couldn't bring itself to truly let go two people who were in the two key positions as the team descended into 90-loss purgatory is itself a problem. It shows to the other people in the organization that there is no real penalty for failure. They can simply land softly in a job somewhere else in the organization.

 

I get that both guys have talents. But you don't keep around two people you allegedly fired simply because they have talents. 

 

No one is arguing the need to bring in fresh blood.  We are arguing the idea that everyone in the org should just be canned. That was the implication here.  Smith was a good administrator.  His role in administration at this point has nothing to do with baseball operations.  If he's to be canned, it's because he's not doing a good job in that role, not because of his failures as a GM.

[mazeville]

 

This might be the best explanation yet for the timing of the move.

 

Especially since, unlike Molitor as manager a couple years ago, or even bringing back TR in 2011, the new GM hire by itself probably won't generate a lot of immediate general excitement among the season ticket holders.

 

The one marketing benefit in a front office change is the dismissal, and the start of the new GM search and hype machine.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of current ownership. But I don't think they're stupid, either. They are in a market in which the Vikings are Super Bowl contenders opening up a brand new stadium, where the Timberwolves have some of the best young talent in the NBA and a proven winner as the head coach, and where the Wild hired a brand new coach. 

 

They're competing for sponsorship dollars from corporations and for ticket dollars from the sports loving public. They HAVE to make a move. 

 

But, as I said before, I will believe that this team will do the right thing with the subsequent hire when I see it.

[Danchat]

Well, I'm just as shocked as everyone else is. It's very odd timing, but according to Wolfson's tweet (that was posted a couple pages back on this thread), it seems that there was a rift in philosophy about what to do at the August 1 trade deadline.

 

What does this mean for the next few weeks? Will the Twins stay put and make few/no moves, or was TR trying to hold onto veterans that the Twins need to shed? That's what I want to know. My fingers are crossed, hoping Antony doesn't get fleeced in a trade.

 

Anyways, for the long run, this is the right move all the way. The Pohlads finally realized that the total system failure included the GM.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Danchat

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

No experienced GM is going to want this job.  It's either Antony or some other first time GM.

 

That's just not true.  Generally, you won't get an existing GM to uproot unless there is a good incentive for them to do so, but as Brock stated, there's a lot of good reason to want this job.  Like it or not, there are plenty of positives about the organization starting with a lot of young talent.  What needs to be done differently is development.  It's not like the next GM is in inheriting the worst team in baseball with no young talent. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well, I'm just as shocked as everyone else is. It's very odd timing, but according to Wolfson's tweet (that was posted a couple pages back on this thread), it seems that there was a rift in philosophy about what to do at the August 1 trade deadline.

 

What does this mean for the next few weeks? Will the Twins stay put and make few/no moves, or was TR trying to hold onto veterans that the Twins need to shed? That's what I want to know. My fingers are crossed, hoping Antony doesn't get fleeced in a trade.

 

Anyways, for the long run, this is the right move all the way. The Pohlads finally realized that the total system failure included the GM.

 

I thought the tweet said the oppo.

[mazeville]

 

No one is arguing the need to bring in fresh blood.  We are arguing the idea that everyone in the org should just be canned. That was the implication here.  Smith was a good administrator.  His role in administration at this point has nothing to do with baseball operations.  If he's to be canned, it's because he's not doing a good job in that role, not because of his failures as a GM.

 

If you're going to fire someone, fire someone. Don't short-arm the move by giving Smith or Gardy a "special assistant" position somewhere else in the organization. If they are as talented as you say they are, they'll find positions elsewhere. 

 

Someone please name another organization in major professional sports that gives recently fired managers and general managers the title of "special assistant" somewhere else in the organization because of their "talents." 

 

It's indicative of a bigger problem in the organization. At that point it becomes too country club-like. It also demonstrates a real fear of making the hard decisions these guys often have to make. 

 

So yes, hard as it may be -- and no, I don't like firing anybody and it always makes me sad when it happens -- those are the things that good organizational leaders have to do. And professional sports is way too competitive for wimpy decision makers. 

[wsnydes]

 

That's just not true.  Generally, you won't get an existing GM to uproot unless there is a good incentive for them to do so, but as Brock stated, there's a lot of good reason to want this job.  Like it or not, there are plenty of positives about the organization starting with a lot of young talent.  What needs to be done differently is development.  It's not like the next GM is in inheriting the worst team in baseball with no young talent. 

This team isn't in quite the shape the Cubs were when Madden was hired as manager, but it's still in a position to win very soon given the right leadership.  That should make it very appealing to very good candidates with experience.

[mazeville]

 

Well, I'm just as shocked as everyone else is. It's very odd timing, but according to Wolfson's tweet (that was posted a couple pages back on this thread), it seems that there was a rift in philosophy about what to do at the August 1 trade deadline.

 

 

Wolfson's tweet said the opposite. Said there was NO rift in philosophy about what to do at the August 1 trade deadline.