K in his 4th AB. Typical Ozzy refusing to put the ball in play. 

 

Based on how Arcia was treated by the Twins all season, I doubt they even bothered to check the Rays box scores.

What did the Twins do that was so egregious? Place him in the lineup so he could fail? Put him in the field?  Before you say not play him everyday look at the roster and see how many players are improving as the season goes on. Steady at bats is not the universal cure for bad hitting.

So Arcia had a good game today, it doesn't make the move right or wrong. He also had a 7-13 stretch back in April, which makes the rest of hie season (before today) become 15-93, or .161. 

 

Good luck to him, but all things considered, another one dimensional player being cut (who is not that good in his dimension) will not hurt this team in the long run.

Honestly, that argument is exactly what the twins used with Ortiz. Not that I anticipate him to become Ortiz, not by a mile. It's just not a good argument. The twins didn't like the idea of a straight dh only player. I think he will be a productive player for a while. It will just take the right atmosphere to get him on track.

 

Honestly, that argument is exactly what the twins used with Ortiz. Not that I anticipate him to become Ortiz, not by a mile. It's just not a good argument. The twins didn't like the idea of a straight dh only player. I think he will be a productive player for a while. It will just take the right atmosphere to get him on track.

Agreed. Lack of versatility isn't exactly going to earn anyone bonus points with this regime. They prefer players that can average or slightly below at multiple spots as opposed to a one-dimensional player with a plus tool in the box.

 

I don't think Arcia's the second-coming of Papi, but I really hope he's something close so Terry can hang his head in shame for another 15 years ... when he'll still be turning the ship around.

I saw enough of Arcia to cut him loose before spring training. It made no sense to keep him around this long.

The question becomes - Besides spending 200 million on salary for free agents - What line up did you come up with this spring training that would have worked out better for the Twins?  I'm sure all these posters had their imaginary line up.  What makes your line up so much better than Ryan's and would you have been firing yourself about now if you followed your plan?

 

Arcia deserved as much opportunity as Park IMO.  He was doomed for failure when his playing time decreased.  It's not like others were tearing the cover of the ball.  This crowd is just rough.  Be honest and tell how well your arm chair advice would have turned out - Lol

 

What did the Twins do that was so egregious? Place him in the lineup so he could fail? Put him in the field?  Before you say not play him everyday look at the roster and see how many players are improving as the season goes on. Steady at bats is not the universal cure for bad hitting.

If the player isn't capable of hitting major league pitching thats correct. But, if we're talking about a guy who has shown 25-30 HR a year potential and is out of options then steady ABs and consistent playing time are needed, if for nothing more than to make a fair assessment. For a team that is 24-51 and had an OF that was in shambles for most of the season to be unable to do that is egregious. 

 

We'd also have nobody catching the pitches.

 

Not sold on Sano at 3B, myself.  Escobar is below average.  Dzoier has dropped off.  I'm fine with Kepler in the OF.

Sano's bat clearly makes up for some shotty D at 3rd, Dozier's Offensive numbers are above his career average, Escobar is hitting around .275 with OPS close to .700 so im not sold on your arguments here

 

What did the Twins do that was so egregious? Place him in the lineup so he could fail? Put him in the field?  Before you say not play him everyday look at the roster and see how many players are improving as the season goes on. Steady at bats is not the universal cure for bad hitting.

 

Use of loaded words like egregious does not an argument make. Echoing "kirbydome" just above.... Did you catch Molitor's interview after the move? Even he admitted that Arcia never received a fair shot before he was cut. 

 

To rehash old laundry yet again... All I've questioned is why the Twins didn't just part ways in the offseason if this was their perception and conclusion of his worth to the team? Even when it became obvious early on that the season was lost, Arcia played less, not more. And unlike Sano, Arcia did all that was asked of him in the offseason, to obviously no avail. 

 

The Twins once again got nothing for him in the end, plus they have the added insult of wasted development time and a wasted roster spot, better placed with someone or someones they actually think has/have a future with the team.

Edited June 27, 201610 yr by jokin

 

Sano's bat clearly makes up for some shotty D at 3rd, Dozier's Offensive numbers are above his career average, Escobar is hitting around .275 with OPS close to .700 so im not sold on your arguments here

If you follow the conversation, we were talking defense.  Nothing to do with the offense.

Edited June 27, 201610 yr by jimmer

 

Who are you talking about?

I was umpiring all weekend except for church Sunday morning - 16 games/26 hours in 2 days - so it really took me a while to remember who I was talking about.  That just added to the impact of the humor when I remembered.   It never gets old. 

Arcia with 2 hits (a double) and 2 runs for the Rays tonite vs. Boston.  The change of scenery already agreeing with him.

Arcia with 2 hits (a double) and 2 runs for the Rays tonite vs. Boston.  The change of scenery already agreeing with him.

It also might help to have played three days in a row. He did that twice with the Twins this year. The last being May 6-8.

 

It also might help to have played three days in a row. He did that twice with the Twins this year. The last being May 6-8.

Exactly. Arcia OPS'd over .900 in the only two stretches the Twins played him for 5 games in a row (6 games Apr 15-20 and 5 games May 4-10). That might be a small sample coincidence. It might also point to the benefits of consistent playing time.

Hi gang!  

 

Just checking in--  let's see....

 

Last night:  O. Arcia, TB--   3-4, HR, 3RBI

 

Tonight so far:  O. Arcia, TB--  2-4, DBL, 2R

 

Lookin' good outta the box!

 

Thanks, TR!   Thanks, Molly!

 

Good to see the Rays got what sounds like a future HOF player  (based on TD commenters) who can help beat up the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

I've followed the Arcia threads pretty thoroughly and I am pretty sure no one, at any point, has suggested any such thing. 

Did you have a point?

Well, the only thing that I can say about this move (that I personally thought was not good from the get go, along with his lack of consistent playing time) is that the better he plays....the better that PTBNL should be. 

 

*I wonder if there has been any Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus studies on how  PTBNL traded guys vs normal trades pan out for teams. Curious of that.

Edited June 28, 201610 yr by ShouldaCouldaWoulda

Hmm now 3 for 5.... 6 hits in the last two games two doubles a hr run 3 rbi and 3 runs at least yeah we couldnt find room for this guy right.....

We have to go back to June 5 for Park to find 6 hits (6 for last 56).

While letting Arcia go was, IMO, dumb, we don't need a running tally of his hits nor should we rush to judgment after two games.

 

Let's not all pat ourselves on the back quite yet.

Also fun to note that his 3 for 5 night tonight started with a left-hander on the mound for Boston.

While letting Arcia go was, IMO, dumb, we don't need a running tally of his hits nor should we rush to judgment after two games.

Let's not all pat ourselves on the back quite yet.

Disagree. I am watching every box score. If someone else hadn't done it, I would have posted it myself. I wanted him to succeed here. He didn't. I hope he succeeds elsewhere. I will pay attention daily.

 

While letting Arcia go was, IMO, dumb, we don't need a running tally of his hits nor should we rush to judgment after two games.

Let's not all pat ourselves on the back quite yet.

That's true, BB.  An exceedingly small sample, to be sure.  But I'm not interested in back-pats.  I'm more interested in kicking TR and Molly in the butt.  

 

Arcia isn't and wasn't the be-all and end-all of the Twinks problems, but his situation is emblematic of the dysfunction rampant throughout the organization- that's probably why this thread has generated 10 pages and counting.  It's just another glaring example of a guy who didn't fit a certain mold, and therefore wasn't used correctly to maximize what he was capable of.  

 

I.e.- this season:  Don't play the guy for long stretches at a time, don't even PH him in potentially ideal spots, then give him a rare start --against a lefty, and expect, what, overnight success?  Again, one small example, but fitting an overall theme, and not a good one.

On the bright side, Neil Ramirez is on the 25 man roster and has only pitched once in 10 days, so he should be fresh in case a mop up pitcher is needed this week.

While letting Arcia go was, IMO, dumb, we don't need a running tally of his hits nor should we rush to judgment after two games.

Let's not all pat ourselves on the back quite yet.

I agree, Brock.

 

But I will say, my opinion on how Arcia was handled by the Twins isn't based on two games. Nor will it change substantially if he ends up flaming out over the next couple years.

 

We don't have enough info...and that's the point. Neither did the Twins.

Disagree. I am watching every box score. If someone else hadn't done it, I would have posted it myself. I wanted him to succeed here. He didn't. I hope he succeeds elsewhere. I will pay attention daily.

There's a difference between watching a guy and posting his box score every day as proof of success or failure. I'm also watching Arcia's daily scores.

 

If Arcia posts five consecutive oh-fers, everyone gleefully posting these box scores will suddenly go silent.

 

And that tells me people are more interested in showing that they're right than actually evaluating the situation.

I agree, Brock.

 

But I will say, my opinion on how Arcia was handled by the Twins isn't based on two games. Nor will it change substantially if he ends up flaming out over the next couple years.

 

We don't have enough info...and that's the point. Neither did the Twins.

Agreed 100%. I hated the decision.

 

I'm just not a fan of people filling a thread with Told Ya So's based on two games.

To be fair, some of that desire to post box scores comes out of frustration with people writing him off (and thus, writing off how much of a bungled bit of asset management this is) before we know the final story.

 

Regardless of the outcome with Arcia, the Twins decision was indefensible.  And their decisions surrounding Arcia started being indefensible last year.  

 

I'd say I want the Twins to learn from this, but that implies the people who need to learn will still be here.  And I sincerely hope that isn't the case.

To be fair, some of that desire to post box scores comes out of frustration with people writing him off (and thus, writing off how much of a bungled bit of asset management this is) before we know the final story.

True, but if anyone wants a lesson why patience is a virtue, set an advanced search on TD between 5/20-5/30 of 2013 and search "Joe Benson".

 

Lots of embarrassing posts in there, some from the same people using SSSS to back their argument today.

 

Yeah, the decision was *maybe* bad asset management but only if Arcia becomes an actual asset. What pissed me off is how UNNECESSARY it was at the time. This organization doesn't seem to have any direction.