Article: Twins Designate Oswaldo Arcia

[LaBombo]

 

 

For the record, I do not think he will be in the league for long if claimed. He just is not very good.

In his last real appearance as an everyday player (2014) Arcia (then age 23) put up an OPS of .752 and wRC of 109.

 

The 29.9 year old Park currently sits at .719 with an abysmal 92 wRC, and has been absolutely wretched since April, culminating in a June OPS of .604.

 

Sooo.. would it be fair to say that the only reason that Park will be in MLB for long may well turn out to be that the Twins chose to commit $24 million to his 4 year deal?

 

And for the record, I was fine with the Twins gambling 24 mil on Park figuring out MLB pitching, which he may yet do, but only if the Twins were willing to regard him as a failed experiment and sunk cost when the time came.

 

We're not there yet, but it will be interesting to see what happens if Park continues to struggle, because now the Twins have already bailed on one younger, cheaper player who has outperformed Park.

 

How many more will there be?

Edited June 17, 2016 by LaBombo

[spinowner]

Just now read this; first I heard about it because I had a busy day.

There's no defense for this. There's no reason not to keep him. Send Park or Kepler to AAA, let Arcia play regularly for a couple months and see what he can do. P***es me off.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Just now read this; first I heard about it because I had a busy day.

There's no defense for this. There's no reason not to keep him. Send Park or Kepler to AAA, let Arcia play regularly for a couple months and see what he can do. P***es me off.

Welcome to the party. You nailed it.

 

I've been stewing in it all day. All I can say is: I'm a huge fan of many twins players. Hard to get behind this team (organization). The whole thing sucks.

[h2oface]

Drafted the wrong brother. I hope we got the right Burdi. Seems Nick is taking the Alex Meyer approach and can't stay within his arm capabilities and keeps hurting himself, though. Other than hype, I can't say I like any of the players on this team this year. Haven't liked the FO for years

Hey... it's not my fault.

[jud6312]

Molitor just looked into the camera and said that he gave Oswaldo an opportunity. And he was serious about. Time for this clown to ride out of town his boss.

[spinowner]

 

Supposedly, the Korean league is similar to AAA.  In order to adjust to MLB pitching, he's going to need to face MLB pitching.  Sending him down doesn't serve as much of a benefit to him.

That's probably true, but we aren't in a position where we lose Park if we want to send him down for a month or two. It should have been much more important to do what would benefit Arcia than to do what would benefit Park.

[wsnydes]

That's probably true, but we aren't in a position where we lose Park if we want to send him down for a month or two. It should have been much more important to do what would benefit Arcia than to do what would benefit Park.

I know this isn't your point, but I'd argue that's exactly what they did. Arcia is better off elsewhere. He'll get a real chance.

[Blackjack]

Arcia -- very piss poor defense and not hitting enough to beat out Kepler or Grossman. What does that say about him?????????????

 

 

 

 

[jud6312]

 

That's probably true, but we aren't in a position where we lose Park if we want to send him down for a month or two. It should have been much more important to do what would benefit Arcia than to do what would benefit Park.

But if they had to send Park down to AAA - even if only for a short while - would be Terry Ryan admitting that he screwed something up. Terry Ryan has never admitted a mistake.

[tobi0040]

 

 

And for the record, I was fine with the Twins gambling 24 mil on Park figuring out MLB pitching, which he may yet do, but only if the Twins were willing to regard him as a failed experiment and sunk cost when the time came

That is an extremely logical, well thought out caveat.

Unfortunately Terry missed that day in economics. When he hands out money he is going to get his money's worth. Nolasco has had I don't know 50 starts. Pelfrey. Hughes. Plouffe. And so forth. Edited June 18, 2016 by ChiTownTwinsFan

[Riverbrian]

Easy to see, hear, feel and smell this train coming down the tracks. 

 

Oswaldo Arcia was put to sleep... plain and simple. Healthy and he was given 11 AB's in the last 15 games. Put to sleep on a team that keeps losing and losing big. 

 

He wasn't accidentally put to sleep. He was hand selected and then purposely put to sleep. Hand selected because... I assume... an evaluation was made prior. An evaluation made by the same people who made all these other evaluations that have been... nearly 100 percent wrong since September... 

 

I would have felt slightly comfortable with this move if Arcia was given a fair chance to compete for a roster slot.

 

I could have been slightly on-board with this decision if I couldn't name at least 7 current Twins who have performed worse this year or at bare minimum... equally as questionable as Arcia has been... yet were still hand selected to be given a chance to turn it around. 

 

I won't even try to predict if Arcia will or will not make it down the line. He's flawed right now just like the overwhelming majority of his now ex-teammates.

 

However... he has enough pop to be something special and he's still on the young side so who knows.

 

This team is 20-46... it doesn't need to make premature hard decisions like this one.

 

It's bad enough that we have 20 wins and 46 losses... but now we get to watch other teams vulture over our 20-46 carcass. 

 

Mark me down for being of the belief that this might be the right decision based on absolutely horrible reasoning. 

 

Dear Jim Pohlad,

 

In the Total System Failure Interview... Chip Scoggins asked if you were prepared to do something drastic if the team continues to lose and look so uninspired.

 

You were quoted as saying: “Give me something drastic that — without just making us feel good by doing it – that’s necessarily going result in something better,”

 

The resulting in something better part may be true for a short term time frame... that doesn't really matter anymore...  but you have failed to consider that the lead designers of this total system failure will have many chances to make it worse for 2017 and beyond and 2017 and beyond should still matter. 

 

 

 

 

[LaBombo]

 

You were quoted as saying: “Give me something drastic that — without just making us feel good by doing it – that’s necessarily going result in something better,”

 

The resulting in something better part may be true for a short term time frame... that doesn't really matter anymore...  but you have failed to consider that the lead designers of this total system failure will have many chances to make it worse for 2017 and beyond and 2017 and beyond should still matter. 

 

Good stuff, Rb, but I have to confess to pressing the Like button before I read it instead of after.  I saw it was pretty long and had bold face and just thought 'Oh, good, brian is pissed too' and pressed Like.

 

But then I did read it, honest! Well said.

Edited June 18, 2016 by LaBombo

[Pius Jefferson]

The reality of the situation might be that Arcia being an effective hitter wasn't going to happen here. To me that's more telling of an organizational problem than the idea the Twins didn't fail at getting the best out of Arcia.

[Riverbrian]

 

Good stuff, Rb, but I have to confess to pressing the Like button before I read it instead of after.  I saw it was pretty long and had bold face and just thought 'Oh, good, brian is pissed too' and pressed Like.

 

But then I did read it, honest! Well said.

 

Yeah I'm not happy... 

 

The rest of this season should be about finding out what you have for 2017 and each player should get an equal shot at showing their future worth especially when you don't have those pesky little pressures of making the playoffs. 

 

I'm not happy...  because I've watched nearly every game and I know that Arcia didn't play well but I also know that he wasn't beaten out by someone who played better. 

 

 

[LaBombo]

The league would never sign off on it, but you have to wonder whether visiting teams at Target Field with a big top of the 9th lead, if offered a chance to, would voluntarily bypass their half of the ninth to speed up the end of the game.

[darin617]

He will end up in the AL East and after a few weeks he will be crushing it with a new hitting coach.

[dxpavelka]

Miss me yet?-Gardy.

[Shaitan]

 

The league would never sign off on it, but you have to wonder whether visiting teams at Target Field with a big top of the 9th lead, if offered a chance to, would voluntarily bypass their half of the ninth to speed up the end of the game.

And not pad their stats against this bullpen?

[LaBombo]

 

Miss me yet?-Gardy.

Winning seasons/seasons managed since 2010:

 

Molitor - 1/1

 

Gardenhire - 0/4

 

Sooooo... Nope.

[Rosterman]

Next up...watch the Twins put Pat Dean on waivers and add Tommy Milone....because Arcia's spot isn't up yet. We will see if the demand for Pat Dean is also high...high enough that he needed to be protected this past fall (who did we lose to the Rule 5 again?).

 

[NoCal]

If Twins starters could get past the 5th inning, the team would not need 8 relievers. The reason that Arcia was lost is because the Twins could not afford to reduce their pitching staff. It all comes down to the starting rotation.......

[The Wise One]

This thread puts the Joe Benson thread to shame.

More than 100 AB and a 40% K rate. 31% K rate for a career.  A team that picks him up has to not only teach him plate discipline but also how to use a glove.  In 5 years and 4 organizations later, when what the coaches are telling him finally sinks in, it will of course be all the Twins' fault.

[The Wise One]

 

Next up...watch the Twins put Pat Dean on waivers and add Tommy Milone....because Arcia's spot isn't up yet. We will see if the demand for Pat Dean is also high...high enough that he needed to be protected this past fall (who did we lose to the Rule 5 again?).

Dean has options so he was optioned, not DFA.

[The Wise One]

 

Yeah I'm not happy... 

 

The rest of this season should be about finding out what you have for 2017 and each player should get an equal shot at showing their future worth especially when you don't have those pesky little pressures of making the playoffs. 

 

I'm not happy...  because I've watched nearly every game and I know that Arcia didn't play well but I also know that he wasn't beaten out by someone who played better. 

Milone is not 30 yet. A couple of good starts and maybe Duquette will come calling.  Luhnow might think he is the missing piece.

[jokin]

 

 

More than 100 AB and a 40% K rate. 31% K rate for a career.  A team that picks him up has to not only teach him plate discipline but also how to use a glove. 

 

Yeah, because the Twins certainly have apparently failed miserably in those endeavors and once again have nothing to show for all the wasted time, $$$ and effort in building value in tremendous raw talent.

 

Keep trying to defend, as time goes by it's continually ever easier to knock down the feeble and stale lines of defense of this organization.

[The Wise One]

 

Yeah I'm not happy... 

 

The rest of this season should be about finding out what you have for 2017 and each player should get an equal shot at showing their future worth especially when you don't have those pesky little pressures of making the playoffs. 

 

I'm not happy...  because I've watched nearly every game and I know that Arcia didn't play well but I also know that he wasn't beaten out by someone who played better. 

What is Kepler or Grossman's ceilings?  Arcia's ceiling is pretty much 25-30HR and the inability to play defense. Batting .200 with that many HR and no ability  defense when playing defense will net you very little value for a full season of war. Gattis played 11 games in lf last year, hit almost 30 hr and almost hit .250 for a sum total of 0 WAR.  Arcia was beaten out by 2 players

 

[The Wise One]

 

Yeah, because the Twins certainly have apparently failed miserably in those endeavors and once again have nothing to show for all the wasted time, $$$ and effort in building value in tremendous raw talent.

 

Keep trying to defend, as time goes by it's continually ever easier to knock down the feeble and stale lines of defense of this organization.

Defend that Arcia was given and chance and failed.? Defender of what else?. Imagery in someone else's mind is not something I can do anything about.   Arcia is responsible for the results of Arcia's talent. The effort to get better was not there and he has gone backwards in three years.  Reality. Deal with it rather than post imaginary ideas of what the poster was thinking.  Nothing to show for spending money on a prospect.  They added 40 draft picks. With your logic they should only sign the ones that will be star players lest they waste money on raw talent. Twisted logic on your part

[jokin]

 

 

What is Kepler or Grossman's ceilings?  Arcia's ceiling is pretty much 25-30HR and the inability to play defense. Batting .200 with that many HR and no ability  defense when playing defense will net you very little value for a full season of war. Gattis played 11 games in lf last year, hit almost 30 hr and almost hit .250 for a sum total of 0 WAR.  Arcia was beaten out by 2 players

 

How can we definitively say we know for certain Arcia's offensive ceiling? By contrast, consider Nelson Cruz. He didn't get called up until age 25. In his first two+ seasons, through to age 27, his numbers were not very impressive:

 

.231/.282/.385/(.666) BB%- 6.3% K%- 25% ISO .154 wRC+ 68

 

Here's Arcia's line in his first two seasons (ages 21-23):

 

.241/.302/.441/(.743) BB%- 6.9% K%- 31% ISO .201 wRC+ 105

 

Soo.. Arcia hits the majors 4 years before Cruz does and acquits himself pretty well. Going strictly by the numbers, it certainly appears that your desperate defense of the Twins' FO has blinded you to the significant offensive potential that Arcia still possesses.

 

 

[The Wise One]

 

How can we definitively say we know for certain Arcia's offensive ceiling? By contrast, consider Nelson Cruz. He didn't get called up until age 25. In his first two+ seasons, through to age 27, his numbers were not very impressive:

 

.231/.282/.385/(.666) BB%- 6.3% K%- 25% ISO .154 wRC+ 68

 

Here's Arcia's line in his first two seasons (ages 21-23):

 

.241/.302/.441/(.743) BB%- 6.9% K%- 31% ISO .201 wRC+ 105

 

Soo.. Arcia hits the majors 4 years before Cruz does and acquits himself pretty well. Going strictly by the numbers, it certainly appears that your desperate defense of the Twins' FO has blinded you to the significant offensive potential that Arcia still possesses.

At no point in time as a major  league ball player did Cruz have a K% approaching 30%,   If you are trying to make a case try to compare similar players at similar points in their career. Arcia is not even remotely similar to Cruz because he will never hit with a 30-40% K rate.  Again, this has nothing to do with the front office and everything to do with a player. It is really disingenuous to make it about the front office when I did not bring up the front office.

Edited June 18, 2016 by The Wise One

[Platoon]

 

 

 

And for the record, I was fine with the Twins gambling 24 mil on Park figuring out MLB pitching, which he may yet do, but only if the Twins were willing to regard him as a failed experiment and sunk cost when the time came

That is an extremely logical, well thought out caveat.

Unfortunately Terry missed that day in economics. When he hands out money he is going to get his money's worth. Nolasco has had I don't know 50 starts. Pelfrey. Hughes. Plouffe. And so forth.

Terry has a different definition of "gets your money's worth" than I do!