Article: Twins Designate Oswaldo Arcia

[TheLeviathan]

 

Releasing Arcia is simply one step to "the Rebuild". Removing major league players that aren't in the future but are potentially blocking the advancement of those that might have a future is a necessary step--and one that has been advocated many time even by some of those complaining about this necessary move.

 

Arcia should be playing every day in RF.  The only reason he's not is the insistence of this general manager (and there were many here who backed this move) to keep Trevor Plouffe.

 

Maybe Arcia would've continued to struggle, but we should've found out.  Not turned him into a bench player.

[Rosterman]

Well, in defense of Arcia, he and Vargas should've been the DH candidates this year (and maybe a tad of Sano). But, nooooooo. The Twins, actually, seemed to be surprised that they won the bidding for Park, coming in at the minimum and everyone else passed, so they were stuck, especially when Park did sign a favorable contract to play major league ball. not that this is bad, but WHAT WAS THE PLAN.

 

And so looking forward to the next guys coming of the DL. Soon to be, an outfield of Grossman, Santana and Sano with Mastro as the backup and BOTH Kepler and Buxton down at AAA. Maybe the time spent there will make them even better.

 

And admidst all this, we do lose Arcia. We will lose Vargas. We get nothing back in exchange? Okay, maybe a waiver wire claim wash, eh?

 

[tobi0040]

Arcia should be playing every day in RF. The only reason he's not is the insistence of this general manager (and there were many here who backed this move) to keep Trevor Plouffe.

 

Maybe Arcia would've continued to struggle, but we should've found out. Not turned him into a bench player.

That is exactly it. The analysis of who is apart of the future should have concluded Plouffe was not. Sano is a better 3b. And Plouffe at $7m this year (age 29), $10m next year (age 30) and FA money starting at 31 is a no brainer.

 

So instead Sano goes to RF and has failed miserably. Park gets DH reps and Arcia gets edged out.

 

Plouffe was never going to be a piece on the 2018 Twins playoff team. Arcia may have been. But now he won't.

Edited June 19, 2016 by tobi0040

[tobi0040]

Well, in defense of Arcia, he and Vargas should've been the DH candidates this year (and maybe a tad of Sano). But, nooooooo. The Twins, actually, seemed to be surprised that they won the bidding for Park, coming in at the minimum and everyone else passed, so they were stuck, especially when Park did sign a favorable contract to play major league ball. not that this is bad, but WHAT WAS THE PLAN.

 

And so looking forward to the next guys coming of the DL. Soon to be, an outfield of Grossman, Santana and Sano with Mastro as the backup and BOTH Kepler and Buxton down at AAA. Maybe the time spent there will make them even better.

 

And admidst all this, we do lose Arcia. We will lose Vargas. We get nothing back in exchange? Okay, maybe a waiver wire claim wash, eh?

Probably so the Twins could have said "they were in" on Park had he turned out good. Let me be clear, this is not aimed at you at all. But the Twins have been defended because they "didn't think they would win" the Park bidding and it altered their plans. Really a lame excuse. Don't bid then. Edited June 19, 2016 by tobi0040

[CampQ]

10 days I believe. So June 26th.

Thx

[Platoon]

Ryan apparently has/had determined that Vargas, Arcia, ABW, et al were not going to cut it at DH. But then Hunter saved the team the embarrassment of signing a 41 year old OF on a rebuilding team. What if he had not? I think that you would have seen the Sano Experiment anyway. Remember, they did not want Sano DH'ng full time. A rare agreement between me and Ryan. I imagine the story line would have been the legendary Twins OF'er mentoring Sano to replace him whilst splitting time between RF and DH. If Ryan didn't trade Plouffe in the current situation, he sure would not of if Hunter came back. Torri screwed this all up by retiring, and Ryan saw Park as likely both a lottery ticket he could bid on, and while unlikely to succeed, have the annual "we were in it to the end on the guy" presser. Sadly for the Twins we got our man. This whole thing is like a house of cards that collapsed. But what was the first card pulled? It almost has to be that Ryan really believed in 2015. All the decisions made seem to point to that. I waffle on the BP decision, but remember, TR always thinks he can simply dig around in the dumpster and bring in uncovered jewels for the pen. It's never been a visible priority. Arcia is yet another casualty in this collapse. Ryan cannot bring himself to admit this just needs to be trashed and start with a fresh slate. That the core veterans on this team have been the genisis for years of lost baseball and cannot carry a team anywhere near success. His actions suggest that Dozier, Plouffe, Park and the elite pitching staff will return for another year, as this was simply a blip. Look how well we did in ST. That's the real ceiling for this team!

[AlwaysinModeration]

This whole fiasco has flipped me to the point of view that TR should be replaced as soon as ownership can identify a satisfactory replacement.

Didn't you mean "a satisfactory in-house replacement"?

Edited June 19, 2016 by AM.

[old nurse]

 

Ryan apparently has/had determined that Vargas, Arcia, ABW, et al were not going to cut it at DH. But then Hunter saved the team the embarrassment of signing a 41 year old OF on a rebuilding team. What if he had not? I think that you would have seen the Sano Experiment anyway. Remember, they did not want Sano DH'ng full time. A rare agreement between me and Ryan. I imagine the story line would have been the legendary Twins OF'er mentoring Sano to replace him whilst splitting time between RF and DH. If Ryan didn't trade Plouffe in the current situation, he sure would not of if Hunter came back. Torri screwed this all up by retiring, and Ryan saw Park as likely both a lottery ticket he could bid on, and while unlikely to succeed, have the annual "we were in it to the end on the guy" presser. Sadly for the Twins we got our man. This whole thing is like a house of cards that collapsed. But what was the first card pulled? It almost has to be that Ryan really believed in 2015. All the decisions made seem to point to that. I waffle on the BP decision, but remember, TR always thinks he can simply dig around in the dumpster and bring in uncovered jewels for the pen. It's never been a visible priority. Arcia is yet another casualty in this collapse. Ryan cannot bring himself to admit this just needs to be trashed and start with a fresh slate. That the core veterans on this team have been the genisis for years of lost baseball and cannot carry a team anywhere near success. His actions suggest that Dozier, Plouffe, Park and the elite pitching staff will return for another year, as this was simply a blip. Look how well we did in ST. That's the real ceiling for this team!

Vargas, Arcia, ABW<  What in 2015 would convince you they were locks to be major league players?

 

Trade what for a relief pitcher you would be proud of?  Sign one? How many of the 50 FA are any good this year. Crap shoot.

 

Thinking that someone bases anything off spring training records  is a great strawman argument. A player may have a good spring, but not very many fans believe

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Ah, it was me who didn't understand your argument. That makes more sense. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I'm not sure Beresford has any greater future with this team than Santana, but I can at least buy the argument that he deserves more of an opportunity in the Show. At this point, that is what this team should be doing. They need to figure out who is in the long term plans. Arcia obviously wasn't. I'm not overly bent out of shape about that, but I do think how this went down reeks of mismanagement as well.

dsan is terrible fielding at every position and can't hit consistently. Arcia is the same except he could at least provide a home run. With Buxton, Kepler, Grossman, Nunez, Escobar, Dozier, at the positions DSan plays, the team needs a bench bat for the outfield and a defensive specialist/Pinch runner in the infield. Arcia could be the bench bat, I don't know what Santana offers, but at least Beresford fields in the infield well.

[twinssouth]

3 days passed and Arcia hasn't been claimed yet, 7 days to go. A backup outfielder that can't catch a fly ball from the worse team in baseball. Yep, here in Atlanta, the Braves have 2 more wins then us.

[DaveW]

FYI: Arcia doesn't need to become Ortiz 2.0 to render this a boneheaded decision.

 

If he out produces Danny Santana or Pat Dean from here on forward it cements it as a boneheaded decision.

[DaveW]

3 days passed and Arcia hasn't been claimed yet, 7 days to go. A backup outfielder that can't catch a fly ball from the worse team in baseball. Yep, here in Atlanta, the Braves have 2 more wins then us.

I don't think that's how it works...I'm pretty sure the Twins have 7 days to place him on waivers, they can try to trade him in the meantime. Edited June 19, 2016 by DaveW

[ashbury]

Didn't you mean "a satisfactory in-house replacement"?

I expect out-house results if that is the decision.

[mdonaghue]

This just doesn't make any sense. If you look at Killebrew's first 100 games, he was on a par with Arcia. The kid showed a lot of commitment to getting better this winter, so clearly he's willing to work. Why aren't they trading Plouffe for whatever they can get; moving Sano to third; and starting Kepler, Buxton and Arcia in the outfield? The key, then, would be to let them play the rest of the season without jerking them around between the big league club and AAA.

[Willihammer]

 

I don't think that's how it works...I'm pretty sure the Twins have 7 days to place him on waivers, they can try to trade him in the meantime.

Probably wise to keep that in mind. The Twins could just be gauging trade interest at this point.

 

Also this is helpful:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/dfatracker

 

Tim Federowicz at the top of that list. 28 y/o catcher with a .910 OPS in 1100 AAA PAs anyone? He also has not been given much of a chance at the MLB level.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Willihammer

[stringer bell]

I think the key component here is that Arcia is not a good fit as a bench player and perhaps not so much as a platoon option (and there aren't that many true platoons in MLB). To be productive (IMHO), Arcia needs to play almost every day and he simply hasn't hit enough since Molitor became manager to justify that.

 

As I said earlier, the Twins are at fault for creating the logjam at DH/1B/corner OF, with little choice but to start Arcia on the team but on the bench.

[jorgenswest]

I think any trade will involve cash considerations in return.

 

The only hope is that someone puts in a claim forcing a team with a lower priority to make a trade. It will likely mean a little more cash like the Paredes deal after being DFA'd. Extra cash doesn't help much closing out ball games.

 

Federowicz is interesting. For some reason the Red Sox, Dodgers, Padres and Cubs have all had him in their organizations without giving him a significant shot at the majors. The bar is pretty low for the Twins. He might get more opportunity.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think the key component here is that Arcia is not a good fit as a bench player and perhaps not so much as a platoon option (and there aren't that many true platoons in MLB). To be productive (IMHO), Arcia needs to play almost every day and he simply hasn't hit enough since Molitor became manager to justify that.

 

As I said earlier, the Twins are at fault for creating the logjam at DH/1B/corner OF, with little choice but to start Arcia on the team but on the bench.

 

He's got a career .785 OPS against righties, he absolutely could have worked in a platoon.  I could at least understand his role last year as we were succeeding more than we expected.  

 

But this year?  It's inexcusable that Santana drew more plate appearances than him.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think any trade will involve cash considerations in return.

 

The only hope is that someone puts in a claim forcing a team with a lower priority to make a trade. It will likely mean a little more cash like the Paredes deal after being DFA'd. Extra cash doesn't help much closing out ball games.

 

 

Don't think it works like that. If Arcia hits waivers, the claiming team with the highest priority gets him. The Twins can't retract those waivers or use them as leverage in a trade.

[Mr. Brooks]

Don't think it works like that. If Arcia hits waivers, the claiming team with the highest priority gets him. The Twins can't retract those waivers or use them as leverage in a trade.

That's not true.

The Twins are not required to put him on waivers until the 7th day.

 

The Twins can trade him to any team in baseball until that point.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment?wprov=sfla1

[jorgenswest]

In Paredes case, the Phillies made the trade to circumvent an anticipated waiver claim according to MLBTR.

 

A team may do the same in acquiring Arcia. The best return is likely cash. If no trade occurs, there is very little interest.

[Otto von Ballpark]

That's not true.

The Twins are not required to put him on waivers until the 7th day.

 

The Twins can trade him to any team in baseball until that point.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment?wprov=sfla1

That is not what I was saying. I said IF he hits waivers, they can't trade him (unless he goes unclaimed, of course). Unlike what the other poster said, we can't leverage a waiver claim on him in trade talks with another team. (We could leverage a likely hypothetical waiver claim, but not an actual one.)

 

Obviously they can trade him before he hits waivers. And that is almost certainly what they are trying to do right now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

In Paredes case, the Phillies made the trade to circumvent an anticipated waiver claim according to MLBTR.

 

A team may do the same in acquiring Arcia. The best return is likely cash. If no trade occurs, there is very little interest.

Yeah, an anticipated waiver claim. But not an actual one.

 

The Paredes case was interesting because the Phillies claimed him earlier, but the Blue Jays won the claim. Then when Blue Jays DFA'd him, the Phillies did a trade rather than risk losing him on waivers.

 

How Arcia would fare on waivers would be less predictable, seeing that he has never been exposed to them.

[dxpavelka]

 

Winning seasons/seasons managed since 2010:

 

Molitor - 1/1

 

Gardenhire - 0/4

 

Sooooo... Nope.

Career Winning %:

Molitor:  .448

Gardy:  .507

 

Just sayin

[old nurse]

 

I don't think that's how it works...I'm pretty sure the Twins have 7 days to place him on waivers, they can try to trade him in the meantime.

If in a few years time between Santana and Arcia one does little and the other does less the move and angst becomes over nothing.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If in a few years time between Santana and Arcia one does little and the other does less the move and angst becomes over nothing.

 

You also claimed we'd never care about missing out on Jake Arrieta either.  

 

Thing is, when you give up on upside - you have a tendency to get burned more often than you'd like.  And this team has repeatedly failed to understand that concept for a long time.

[Mr. Brooks]

You also claimed we'd never care about missing out on Jake Arrieta either.

 

Thing is, when you give up on upside - you have a tendency to get burned more often than you'd like. And this team has repeatedly failed to understand that concept for a long time.

Not only that but there is just no reason whatsoever to give up on young upside when you are the worst team in the league.

 

It's one thing when you are in a pennant race and you have to prioritize every single win right now.

In that case, you can arguably justify it.

 

Arcia has big time offensive potential. So far it's been hit or miss, nobody disputes that. But, the book is far from closed on his ability, and it wouldn't shock me if he goes on to have a very good career.

[LaBombo]

 

Career Winning %:

Molitor:  .448

Gardy:  .507

 

Just sayin

How many MLB managers with 4 consecutive 90-loss seasons get a chance to manage ANY team again, let alone the one with which they amassed nearly 400 losses in less than half a decade?

 

Gardenhire returns if 1.) Molitor loses control of the team. AND  2.) Ryan doesn't want an interim manager to come from within.  AND  3) Pohlad doesn't want Ryan to select a manager on more than an interim basis because Ryan is gone at the end of the season.

 

In other words, Gardenhire, his 82 win regular season average, and historically bad postseason record aren't coming back.

 

Great pot stirrer topic, though. How about a thread? Don't forget to bring up the idea of Gardy bringing back Ullger!

[dxpavelka]

 

How many MLB managers with 4 consecutive 90-loss seasons get a chance to manage ANY team again, let alone the one with which they amassed nearly 400 losses in less than half a decade?

 

Gardenhire returns if 1.) Molitor loses control of the team. AND  2.) Ryan doesn't want an interim manager to come from within.  AND  3) Pohlad doesn't want Ryan to select a manager on more than an interim basis because Ryan is gone at the end of the season.

 

In other words, Gardenhire, his 82 win regular season average, and historically bad postseason record aren't coming back.

 

Great pot stirrer topic, though. How about a thread? Don't forget to bring up the idea of Gardy bringing back Ullger!

First of all I wasn't advocating bringing him back, merely pointing out that getting rid of him was not quite the panacea so many wanted to believe it was.  As to your leading question I'll start the answer session with Tom Kelly 1997-2000.  The team improved in 2001 as I believe this team was bound to do in 2015 regardless of whether Gardy or Molitor was calling the shots.  We'll never know that.  And, yes, I realize TK had the cache that comes from winning 2 World Series rings to get another year beyond 4 straight 90 loss campaigns.  But take away those 2 seasons, which a strong argument could be made for both being the result of brilliant moves by Andy McPhail (Gladden, Reardon, Morris, Chili Davis) in the off-seasons preceding them, and quite a bit of the bloom comes off TK's rose.

[LaBombo]

 

First of all I wasn't advocating bringing him back, merely pointing out that getting rid of him was not quite the panacea so many wanted to believe it was.  As to your leading question I'll start the answer session with Tom Kelly 1997-2000.  The team improved in 2001 as I believe this team was bound to do in 2015 regardless of whether Gardy or Molitor was calling the shots.  We'll never know that.  And, yes, I realize TK had the cache that comes from winning 2 World Series rings to get another year beyond 4 straight 90 loss campaigns.  But take away those 2 seasons, which a strong argument could be made for both being the result of brilliant moves by Andy McPhail (Gladden, Reardon, Morris, Chili Davis) in the off-seasons preceding them, and quite a bit of the bloom comes off TK's rose.

Since World War II, there have been only two ways to keep your MLB manager job after just three consecutive 90 loss seasons: work for an expansion team, or work for Terry Ryan.  Gardenhire was let go after four clunkers because even the Twins eventually needed to hold someone accountable for a terrible product.

 

And you're right, we'll never know how the 2015 Twins would have performed with Gardy managing, but the point is that NO team would know, because as a matter of unerring historical trend they would have fired him after 2013.

 

Molitor has been an enigma and an occasional source of consternation (bunt-o-rama offense, 'Wheel of Misfortune' bullpen) in his brief tenure, but i can't imagine how anyone could be so put off by him that they would miss a guy who any other team in baseball would have canned a year before the Twins did.

 

When I think of Gardenhire, I think of a good yet frequently exasperating .500 manager who lost to the Yankees in the playoffs a lot and then lost to everyone in the regular season a lot.  Time will tell how Molitor is remembered, but my bet is that it won't be as 'the guy the Twins should have never hired instead of keeping Gardenhire'.

Edited June 20, 2016 by LaBombo