Time for a change

[DPJ]

I guess my numbers were off...regardless its still a complete slap in the face to ask the guy to take a paycut. Especially when its the damn Yankees!!

 

They ran him out of town, everyone up here knew it, apparently some rubes fell for it though...

They sure did run him outta town by offering him a deal that still made him the highiest paid manager in the game.

 

Look at all the losing they've done since Torre refused that contract, I'm sure the Yankees are really regreting it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Also, when I talk about teams like the Mets and Orioles this year over achieving based on the roster. The 2010 Indians and D-Backs. The 2009 Padres. I also believe that the Twins have been an over achieving team for the past decade prior to the collapse... The Twins typically have not been a team that anyone would consider loaded and they have been a tough team to beat in years past. Gardy should get some credit for that if people want to blame him for what is happening now.

From 2002-2011, the Twins exceeded their Pythagorean expected record by 22 games.

 

That's pretty amazing, actually.

[DaveW]

They sure did run him outta town by offering him a deal that still made him the highiest paid manager in the game.

 

Your not very good at reading between the lines are you?

[jctwins]

First off none of those guys are coming here. But why does the replacement have to have a long resume like the names you listed. A couple years ago no one knew who the hell Maddon was, but he worked well with the young talent in TB and now IMO he's the best manager in baseball. You can go find a smart and progressive manager out there that doesn't have the "vet pressense" you yern for.

 

Instead of a long resume the Twins need to find someone who can work with the kids coming up, won't play favorites and can take the ups and downs that come with young players. Something Gardy doesn't do.

What so many people forget is that this is exactly who Tom Kelly was when they hired him.

 

People that pine for the past tend to look at the end of a former career/success story and want to replicate the end, rather than the beginning.

[DPJ]

Your not very good at reading between the lines are you?

Well I am dense cause I have the nerve to actually look up something.

[JB_Iowa]

I fully expect that Gardy will retire at the end of this season. I doubt that physically, he can take much more of this losing.

 

Honestly, I think that this is the one reason that Gardy's exit could happen during the season. If he is sick of it AND if the Twins think they need a change, it would be very easy (and understandable and believable) for him to use health reasons as a basis for his resignation.

 

And that is a bit sad because going out on a high note is always better than a low note. But I just don't see Gardenhire (or his coaching staff) as part of a potential turnaround.

 

I think Gardenhire could be a good manager somewhere else but I really think organizations need leadership changes. There was a reason the Methodist Church body used to rotate ministers about every 7 years. Sometimes you just need a new face in the leader's chair (or on the leader's bench).

[jctwins]

Gardy would feel a hell of a lot better if he lost 50 pounds and went to a chiropractor to straighten out his back. I'm not even kidding when I say that. He needs to get his **** together healthwise, especially if he wants to stay in this job here or somewhere else.

[JB_Iowa]

Actually there is another possibility that hasn't been mentioned (that I noticed) -- that Gardenhire announces shortly after the trade deadline that he is leaving the manager's position at the end of the season. That gives him "lame duck" status but I don't think that really matters given the mediocrity of this team.

 

It would allow him a "farewell tour" to everyplace in the Central. It would also allow the Twins to talk with potential managers without stepping on toes. Hopefully it would also allow the Twins to announce the new manager toward the end of the season -- possibly helping to stabilize season ticket sales.

 

It would give Gardenhire the respect and recognition he deserves for his service as manager to the Twins but would give the organization the leg up on locating his replacement.

[twinsnorth49]

Why in the hell would Francona want to manage a rebuilding team?

Why the hell would we want Francona to manage our rebuilding team? If you want a new voice, don't start recycling retread managers.

[twinsnorth49]

To make a statement that losing is not tolerated. THAT simple. If they do not, they practically say that they are ok with the product on the field. Wrong message.

Statement firings never really make that much of statement, that's a cliche.

[twinsnorth49]

. Maybe it's cause the manager for an AL isn't that important. Fill out the lineup card and don't treat the pen like a idiot.

You're oversimplification of the job is kind of unmaking your point to replace Gardy. His handling of the pen hasn't been as bad as your making out and the umpires keep accepting his lineup cards so he seems to have that down.

 

I'm ok with wanting to replace Gardy but to make it out like anyone could do the job better than him is starting to ring a little hollow.

[Kobs]

Gardenhire deserves better than to be fired mid-season. Yes, he has a poor record in the playoffs, but he's gotten us to the playoffs more than any other manager we've had. That in itself earns him the right to depart in dignity after the season is over.

How many bowl games?

[twinsnorth49]

How many bowl games?

The same number as Glenn Mason.

[rogrulz30]

I fully expect that Gardy will retire at the end of this season. I doubt that physically, he can take much more of this losing.

 

As for a replacement, A leading candidate should be Gene Glynn, the first year manager at AAA Rochester. Has ton's of experience coaching a couple long stints in the majors as well as coaching/managing in the minors. He could easily bring his two main assistants with him, Tom Brunansky and Bobby Cuellar. IMO, would be very solid manager to lead the team in its turn around that should begin next year.

Gardy specifically said in the paper yesterday he wants to continue managing this team next year, it is up to management to make that decision. In no way can I see Gardy retiring.

[Thrylos]

Gardy specifically said in the paper yesterday he wants to continue managing this team next year, it is up to management to make that decision. In no way can I see Gardy retiring.

Gardy specifically said a lot of things in the paper (like saying "Cappy will be my closer" two days before he gave the job to Nathan last season) that were untrue. So his words needs to be taken with a grain of salt the size of the Dead Sea. He is not going to come in the middle of the season and openly say that he will retire. That is like retiring

[CDog]

Gardy specifically said a lot of things in the paper (like saying "Cappy will be my closer" two days before he gave the job to Nathan last season) that were untrue.

What paper? My memory of last season was "they'll share closer duties" as spring training was wrapping up with Nathan being first choice, and Capps filling in when Nathan couldn't go multiple days as he worked back from injury. I also have as vague memory of Capps saying essentially that he understood Nathan had been there longer and deserved a chance to have the top role, so maybe that led to the change. But that's a fuzzy memory, so may be an invention.

[Guest USAFChief]

Anyone wanna revisit their take on this?

 

I am more convinced now than ever, it's time for a change...for all the same reasons I originally posted.

[Ultima Ratio]

Anyone wanna revisit their take on this?

 

I am more convinced now than ever, it's time for a change...for all the same reasons I originally posted.

 

All depends on who's taking over. I never have nor ever will vote for change, just for change. I'd like to know the real alternatives before changing in order to know if it's progress. That said, in my head bounces several names whom I'm confident could get just as much or more success out of the current 25 men suiting up daily.

[Seth Stohs]

I still believe that the manager has very little to do with the Twins' record this year. At this point, I would not be terribly disappointed with a change at the top. I don't think it will make the team better. I don't care who the manager of this team is right now, the record would not be any better. I don't think that a turn-around would help push the timeline of a rebuild any quicker. It would be change for change's sake, and maybe that 's OK. I definitely would not advocate firing the manager, but I also would not be against it either.

[freightmaster]

The team has quit on him, his shelf life is over date, yes, fine manager for years, but the returning team will not play for him.

 

Lets get piss and vinegar in here..and work this teams ...... off....

[jctwins]

Anyone wanna revisit their take on this?

 

I am more convinced now than ever, it's time for a change...for all the same reasons I originally posted.

 

I couldn't possibly agree more.

[John Bonnes]

If someone wants to research this, I'd love to see it....

 

What are Gardy's teams' records in August and September when they're chasing a playoff spot versus when they are totally out of it. From my memory, they have almost been historically good with the former and historically bad with the latter. Personally, I have mixed feelings about that.....

 

If I was going to a time to be really good, that's what I would choose. And it was a result of extra motivation or drive or whatever, then I want that in a manager when the team is good and I could care less about it when a team is bad. But I'll admit - it's hard to watch this team right now.

 

Meh. You know what? After thinking about it, I'm keeping him. The problem with last year was a nearly historic level of injuries. The problem this year is a rotation that has several #7 starters. As I watched Duensing get punched out today, I didn't blame Gardy. I blamed Duensing just like Im blaming a lot of these starters. It's not like they need any other motivation - they have a golden opportunity to establish a major league career. They just aren't that good. And Gardy can't make them that good. It's unreasonable to expect him too.

[JB_Iowa]

Well, I am one who believes in change for change's sake. NOT constant change but I strongly believe that introducing new talent, new energy and new ideas into an organization is vital.

 

10 years is about the "shelf life" of most leaders. They knew what they were doing when the passed the 22nd amendment -- 8 years is plenty for most presidents, same for governors, mayors and others. And 10 years is enough for ministers, school superintendents, etc. etc. etc.

 

Baseball managers aren't immune from that belief. Constant turmoil and change isn't good but some regular "turnover" in leadership ranks is very, very healthy.

[Thrylos]

Well...

 

Here is the thing (and, yes, I am biased. I wanted Gardy out since after the one game playoff loss against the White Sox) :

 

There has been talk about "no scholarships" to players, and up to a point (unless those players had daddies who were former Twins' players) they did that this season. On the other hand, no scholarships to players and having the manager and his coaches being well tenured and unfirable, is a nasty proposition.

 

This team lost 99 last season. They are on a pace to lose 96 this season. There was a single change made last season: Bill Smith was fired.

Guess what? It did not work. Reality check: Deep breath: Depending on how many games the Twins lose this season, 2011 and 2012 will be the worst consecutive seasons in the franchise. Step back: I mean since the Franchise moved to DC from KC in 1901 to be a founding member of the AL. This is Historic Suckage.

 

They got to do something. Major Kudos to Boston for actually doing something. Hope the Twins realize that people care. But I am not sure that Twins' fans really care about winning more than they care about the perceived comfort of what familiarity brings, let that be Span or Morneau or Gardy or Ryan...

[one_eyed_jack]

My thoughts on this:

 

1) I've generally been a Gardy supporter, and I think he's a good manager, and he deserves some credit for keeping the team consistently competitive for a good stretch. However, I think it might be time for a change. Sometimes when the same voice has been speaking too long, people just stop listening. I don't know that this is the case here, but it sure doesn't feel the same as it did a few years ago.

 

2) That said, the impact of the manager on wins and losses is often highly overrated in these parts. You'd think this were a video game and Gardy were holding the controller. I think replacing Gardy may be a better move than keeping him, but it's silly to think that another manager is going to do all that much better with this roster.

 

3) I wonder if Gardy isn't ready for a change too. He's looked frustrated and defeated towards the end of the last couple of seasons. Maybe he's ready for a new managerial gig, I'm sure he'd get offers if he were available.

[COtwin]

6 and 21. In the playoffs. That says it all. He is an average manager who at times has gotten his teams to play well. But never has he excelled when it mattered most. What's the point of keeping someone around who can't get is to the series much less help us win it all. Gardy was supposed to be the fiery one compared to TK. But every year since 01? we have gone out with a whimper.

[johnnydakota]

I have to agree with the recommendation. I voiced the same call during the first week of the season--premature that early, I know, but nothing about the poor play this entire season is that different from asphyxiated, lifeless play at the beginning. While I'm pleased as punch about Willingham and Plouffe and Revere and that Morneau is hitting better, I still find this team uninspired. Gardy cannot be blamed for a lot of things, but sometimes a team simply has to replace the manager to refresh the team. If the Twins did replace Gardenhire, who would be a great candidate: someone from outside the organization? The new AAA manager? Jerry White or Scott Ulger? I believe that if the Twins do not make any major trades, they have the offensive potential to do very well next season if only they get a decent rotation--you can define decent how you like.

 

mike redmond, gary gaetti?pr perhaps francona

[B Richard]

6 and 21. In the playoffs. That says it all. He is an average manager who at times has gotten his teams to play well. But never has he excelled when it mattered most. What's the point of keeping someone around who can't get is to the series much less help us win it all. Gardy was supposed to be the fiery one compared to TK. But every year since 01? we have gone out with a whimper.

 

Very true. The regular season is important, yes, but the playoffs are where champions are crowned. I really hope that most fans aren't happy to just sit around and gawk at AL Central Champion banners. It's not all Gardy's fault, but I would welcome any change that might clear out the haze of complacency I fear has hovered over the clubhouse.

[B Richard]

Well, I am one who believes in change for change's sake. NOT constant change but I strongly believe that introducing new talent, new energy and new ideas into an organization is vital.

 

10 years is about the "shelf life" of most leaders. They knew what they were doing when the passed the 22nd amendment -- 8 years is plenty for most presidents, same for governors, mayors and others. And 10 years is enough for ministers, school superintendents, etc. etc. etc.

 

Baseball managers aren't immune from that belief. Constant turmoil and change isn't good but some regular "turnover" in leadership ranks is very, very healthy.

 

Well said and excellent analogy- I've often argued that such a philosophy should also be applied to corporations and the private sector at large.

 

If I had one word to describe the Twins the past couple seasons, without using profanity, I would choose "stagnant." Losing is certainly not all Gardy's fault, but sometimes in business you have to cut ties and move forward to get the results you want. Gardy should be let go after this season to inject new life and change the perception of this team. The organization still needs to put a more talented group on the field, no doubt, but Gardy needs to be replaced as part of an effort to revitalize this organization and get back to the promised land.

[BHtwins]

Gardy has been losing this team since "his" class of 2001 players started entering free agency.

 

Torii, AJ, Doug M, Cuddyer etc etc were all rah rah fiery type players who probably responded to the stuff Gardy shovels.

 

Compare that group to Mauer, Morneau and to a lesser extent Span who all are cold-blooded professionals. This team since 2008-2009 is a completely different animal then the 2002-2005 Twins.

 

A great leader can change and adapt to what motivates his charges. I kinda think Gardy started buying his own press clippings a few years back and has shown an unwillingness to adapt to his teams personality.