Article: Offense Being Led Down Path Of Historic Ineptitude

[Darius]

 

FWIW, Mauer was awful while we were winning in May 2015 too, 63 wRC+.  His overall line this year (101 wRC+) is pretty much identical to his 2014-2015 production (99 wRC+), so whoever expected him to produce like a core player in 2016 is probably more to blame than Mauer himself.

 

Likewise, Dozier is at 66 wRC+ so far for 2016, which isn't far from his 73 wRC+ mark from the second half of last year.  Again, the problem might be the expectations than the player himself.

 

Disagree.  Way off, here.

 

Expectation for Mauer were at rock bottom.  It was the front office, the coaching staff, the media, and Mauer himself who came out and said "the recent struggles were all because of my eye issues caused by concussion symptoms.  That's in the past, and Mauer is feeling better than ever.  Great year coming."  They set the expectation.

 

As for Dozer, he's had about 6 months total in his career in which he was good player.  You're right in the sense that some people had expectations for him that were too high.  But, what in God's name is this guy doing in the top third of the lineup?  He shouldn't even be starting at this point, let alone batting leadoff for a major league club, with which comes inherent expectations.  Again, caused by the FO/Manager.

 

You can't really blame fans for being sold a bill of goods, for the sake of making the Pohlad's richer than a Saudi prince, then getting pissed when they don't deliver.  The bottom line here, is that changes aren't made.  Nobody is pissed at player X for not performing....its that they keep getting run out there for years after its apparent that they aren't a very good player because the FO hands out awful contracts.

 

I guess we do agree on something:  The player isn't the one to blame.

 

 

[ken]

 

I don't understand how the players is even an option.
These players didn't assemble, coach, and evaluate themselves.
Blaming the players is like blaming the McDonalds drive through guy because you don't like the taste of their burgers.

How are the players not an option?  The manager and FO can't take AB's for them, pitch for them, field for them or run the bases for them.  They are paid professional that should be accountable for their actions on and off the field. A manager and FO are paid less than a reserve infielder, so laying all the blame on them seems to miss the point.

[Platoon]

That Dozier AB killed me too. I was at the game, so I didn't have the TV view, but this should be about right.

 

Whatever you think of the decision to bunt here, matters not.

 

First pitch he squared to bunt and pulled back. OK

Second pitch he missed on a bunt attempt. MISSED. Not a foul. Just a whiff. He clearly had no interest in bunting even though he was getting the sign to do so.

Third pitch. No bunt attempt. The manager must have seen the sadness in Dozier's eyes and called off the bunt. Jesus. 

Eventually pulls a grounder right down the line for an easy DP (maybe could have had a triple play)

 

Not only do today's player STINK at bunting. They have absolutely no desire to do so. Take a couple pitches... foul off a bunt or two.... and magically, they get to do what they want, and swing away.

I don't know about MLB, but in amateur ball making the guys bunt with two strikes improves his effort remarkably.

[Mr. Brooks]

How are the players not an option? The manager and FO can't take AB's for them, pitch for them, field for them or run the bases for them. They are paid professional that should be accountable for their actions on and off the field. A manager and FO are paid less than a reserve infielder, so laying all the blame on them seems to miss the point.

Because either

 

A) They don't have the talent, in which case the FO is to blame for assembling the team.

 

Or

 

They are not playing up to their talent level. This is on the field staff for not coaching them up to their ability.

 

Explain to me why teams hire coaches if they don't have an effect on players?

[ken]

Because either

A) They don't have the talent, in which case the FO is to blame for assembling the team.

Or

They are not playing up to their talent level. This is on the field staff for not coaching them up to their ability.

Explain to me why teams hire coaches if they don't have an effect on players?

 

Who is more responsible for your work, your boss or you? I believe individual's have a lot more responsibility than you do. Look at Dozier comments today, if he can't see that he has a problem, no amount of coaching is going to change him. And I think every team would consider him a major league player. One year ago, he was an all star.

[jimmer]

 

Who is more responsible for your work, your boss or you? I believe individual's have a lot more responsibility than you do. Look at Dozier comments today, if he can't see that he has a problem, no amount of coaching is going to change him. And I think every team would consider him a major league player. One year ago, he was an all star.

So lets say we have some companies that go out and sign or train top notch employees  Their training programs are top notch. They have great mentorship programs and innovative thinking.  Their department heads are top notch.

 

Then we have competing companies and those other companies have less talented employees who aren't trained as well and don't have good mentorship programs and who have bosses that aren't innovative and so on.

 

Do the second group of employees get all the blame when the companies they work for go under, or is there an underlying problem?

[ken]

So lets say we have some companies that go out and sign or train top notch employees  Their training programs are top notch. They have great mentorship programs and innovative thinking.  Their department heads are top notch.

 

Then we have competing companies and those other companies have less talented employees who aren't trained as well and don't have good mentorship programs and who have bosses that aren't innovative and so on.

 

Do the second group of employees get all the blame when the companies they work for go under, or is there an underlying problem?

 

So you believe Dozier problem is lack of mentoring? And people still question Hunter 's value to the team last year.

 

Nobody gets all the blame, but to say the players don't have responsibility is a joke.

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Who is more responsible for your work, your boss or you? I believe individual's have a lot more responsibility than you do. Look at Dozier comments today, if he can't see that he has a problem, no amount of coaching is going to change him. And I think every team would consider him a major league player. One year ago, he was an all star.

Dozier is one player.

When the whole team is under performing, that can't be just coincidence.

 

In your example, if I'm a bad apple at my job, yeah it's my fault. If everyone in my department is consistently failing, it's my manager who is going to be out of a job.

[jimmer]

 

So you believe Dozier problem is lack of mentoring? And people still question Hunter 's value to the team last year. Nobody gets all the blame, but to say the players don't have responsibility is a joke.

And few doubt Hunter had some effect.  How much is the question and how much was taken away by his poor play is also a question.

 

Mentoring doesn't have to be by a player and players do obviously take blame. But you asked who was more responsible.

 

Total System Failure, for sure, but Ryan put this team together and it was obvious this team wasn't going to be good going into the season.  They shouldn't be THIS bad, but they'd still be bad even they were playing somewhat better and that's the point.

Edited May 24, 2016 by jimmer

[tobi0040]

there comes a point where the manager gets blamed and replaced. The hitting coach. The pitching coach. Minor league coaches.

 

All of those happened and we still suck. players deserve some blame too. But nothing is working right now so aim towards the top.

[twinssporto]

If you want to turn this team into a World Series contender someday soon the Twins need to make some major moves now.  Bring up all of the youth and let them play everyday!  It gives them time to win and lose together.  Builds better team chemistry (think Band of Brothers).  

 

It really should start immediately.  It gives the fan base something to get excited about and gives the rookies experience.  At this point I don't really see a downside.  Instead of your rookies getting experience in AAA they'll get it at the MLB level.  The Twins are going to lose over 100 games this year anyway.  Might as well take advantage of the malaise and bring on the rookies.  

 

Lastly, pick up a good veteran (Tori Hunter like person) to corral the youth and teach them how to be leaders on the field and in the clubhouse.  

[ken]

Dozier is one player.

When the whole team is under performing, that can't be just coincidence.

In your example, if I'm a bad apple at my job, yeah it's my fault. If everyone in my department is consistently failing, it's my manager who is going to be out of a job.

The Manager will be out of the job because you can't replace the whole team. Baseball is a highly individual matchup. When a player is batting, it's a one on one matchup. It hard to blame your Manager if they underperformed. It would be bad management not to hold them accountable for their performance.

 

One bad apple can ruin a department just as much as bad management.

[ken]

And few doubt Hunter had some effect.  How much is the question and how much was taken away by his poor play is also a question.

 

Mentoring doesn't have to be by a player and players do obviously take blame. But you asked who was more responsible.

 

Total System Failure, for sure, but Ryan put this team together and it was obvious this team wasn't going to be good going into the season.  They shouldn't be THIS bad, but they'd still be bad even they were playing somewhat better and that's the point.[/quot

 

Based on the prediction on this site and by most in the media, I don't think it was obvious that this team wasn't going to be good. I'm sure we can look back and see most had high expectations for this team.

[jimmer]

 

And few doubt Hunter had some effect. How much is the question and how much was taken away by his poor play is also a question.

 

Mentoring doesn't have to be by a player and players do obviously take blame. But you asked who was more responsible.

 

Total System Failure, for sure, but Ryan put this team together and it was obvious this team wasn't going to be good going into the season. They shouldn't be THIS bad, but they'd still be bad even they were playing somewhat better and that's the point.[/quot

 

Based on the prediction on this site and by most in the media, I don't think it was obvious that this team wasn't going to be good. I'm sure we can look back and see most had high expectations for this team.

I think if you look at a lot of sites that look a lot deeper you'll find otherwise- Dave Cameron from Fangraphs, for example, said in a chat before the season started that he expected the Twins to be the worst team in the AL.

 

ZiPS predicted them very low. Many places predicted them to have a worse record than last year.

 

Of course, places that do surface like predictions said things like they are young and had 83 wins last year means they'll be better this year. In fact, Pohlad said recently that is what he thought and still claims there was no fault in that thinking. He thought that was sound logic. I had them at 78 wins myself. Turns out I was too optimistic myself.

Edited May 24, 2016 by jimmer

[Circus Boy]

 

If you want to add our relative runs scored and runs allowed percentages, 2016 represents by far our worst combined season in franchise history at 44.3, which is rather historic.  Obviously that should normalize a bit by season 's end, as our previous worst was 2011 at 28.9, followed by 2013 at 27.5.

 

I'm afraid we've entered a New Normal era.