Twins Broadcast Team and Sugarcoating

[Craig Arko]

 

Assuming I had played:

tell lots of stories about baseball

also, not talk so much if on tv...and ask for the stadium sounds to be turned up

 

Assuming I had not played:

tell lots of different kinds of stories

also, not talk so much if on tv...and ask for the stadium sounds to be turned up

And do lots of beer commercials.

[Mike Sixel]

 

And do lots of beer commercials.

 

That would kill me.....I'd have to figure out how NOT to read Miller/Bud commercials.....

[Loosey]

 

I bet it was, and based on Twitter this week it was player who's last name rhymes with barbecues. 

Bremer said it happened during the last homestand.  So I don't know if it was Hughes, but it could be for something unrelated to the shoulder fatigue thing.

[Loosey]

Out of curiosity, if any of us were in the booth (and let's pretend we wanted to keep the job, just to make it interesting) what would we be saying?

 

Assuming I had not played:

tell lots of different kinds of stories

also, not talk so much if on tv...and ask for the stadium sounds to be turned up

I would continually tell stories about how Friday the 13th came to be:

https://youtu.be/QuAnEqjxLwg

 

[d-mac]

 

Bremer said it happened during the last homestand.  So I don't know if it was Hughes, but it could be for something unrelated to the shoulder fatigue thing.

 

Totally just speculation on my part based on what I saw on Twitter.

[Mr. Brooks]

In fairness......questioning Hughes toughness is BS imo....

I don't think it's unfair at all.

 

I don't know if he's tough or not, but when he asks out of a 2-1 game with only 75 pitches, and an already over worked and underperforming bullpen, not because he's hurt, but rather just tired, I'd say at that point it's fair to question it.

Especially when he's being paid workhorse money.

 

Unless you are of the opinion that there is nothing a player can say or do that makes it fair to question their toughness?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't think it's unfair at all.

I don't know if he's tough or not, but when he asks out of a 2-1 game with only 75 pitches, and an already over worked and underperforming bullpen, not because he's hurt, but rather just tired, I'd say at that point it's fair to question it.
Especially when he's being paid workhorse money.

Unless you are of the opinion that there is nothing a player can say or do that makes it fair to question their toughness?

 

Given what they put their bodies thru, I pretty much won't question their toughness. Also, if he felt he couldn't go anymore, for whatever reason, telling the boss that, instead of acting all macho and hurting the team, imo, is better.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree.

[Halsey Hall]

 

Totally just speculation on my part based on what I saw on Twitter.

I don't do twitter, so my guess would have been Dozier.

[Mr. Brooks]

Given what they put their bodies thru, I pretty much won't question their toughness. Also, if he felt he couldn't go anymore, for whatever reason, telling the boss that, instead of acting all macho and hurting the team, imo, is better.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree.

1) It's not the NFL, pro baseball players don't put their bodies through that much. There are jobs out there like mining and commercial fishing, and logging and some types of construction that are about 100 fold more physically strenuous than baseball. And those guys all make less than 70k per year.

 

2) Maybe, and I can listen to that, but again he wasn't hurt, he was tired, and isn't going on the DL.

 

3) You'd have to explain how he could possibly hurt the team more than the bullpen? That's not hindsight either, we've all seen this unit.

 

4) Players have to be aware of situations. The bullpen was overworked. If the bullpen is fully rested and competent, it's probably not an issue.

 

5) Guys like Jack Morris, Bert Blyleven, Nolan Ryan, etc., would they have asked out of a 2-1 game because of fatigue? No chance, you'd have to drag them from the mound. They all had long, mostly healthy productive careers.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not arguing baseball is as hard on a body as many other jobs....no place did I say that.

 

I am arguing that they put their bodies thru a lot. From workouts to practice sessions to warm ups to games. And, they do it pretty much non-stop (including weekends) for 6+ months. I think we all under estimate the wear and tear even on a baseball body. Especially on a pitcher's arm and body.

 

We won't agree on this much. I just think anyone that had made it that far in professional sports is probably pretty tough, and probably knows his body very well.

[Pius Jefferson]

Put me in the skeptical category of Dick being called out in the club house. Especially after those announcer ratings came out and Dick n Bert were ranked the worst. 

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not arguing baseball is as hard on a body as many other jobs....no place did I say that.

 

I am arguing that they put their bodies thru a lot. From workouts to practice sessions to warm ups to games. And, they do it pretty much non-stop (including weekends) for 6+ months. I think we all under estimate the wear and tear even on a baseball body. Especially on a pitcher's arm and body.

 

We won't agree on this much. I just think anyone that had made it that far in professional sports is probably pretty tough, and probably knows his body very well.

Perhaps tough is the wrong word?

Competitive desire, maybe?

 

He's lacking something if he wants out of the game in that situation just because he's tired.

[Platoon]

There are a lot of things that Dick is, but too rough on the players is not one of them. My biggest gripe is his penchant for treating a ball hit 380 ft in play differently depending on who hit it. As for Bert, I really don't have too many issues. In reality, the worse the game the better he is. And in a way they do have my sympathy. With the exception of last May, this is now going on the 6th year of horrific baseball. That's tough to describe, sound enthused, and keep your job.

[Thrylos]

DickNBert (and the radio guys) are Minnesota Twins employees.

 

First amendment bought off.

 

That's the problem with the system.  Hope next CBA that broadcasters are not employed by the clubs.

 

Too much conflict of interest.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Perhaps tough is the wrong word?
Competitive desire, maybe?

He's lacking something if he wants out of the game in that situation just because he's tired.

 

You may be right here, but I think Mike is spot on.  There have been plenty of examples over the last decade of players 'toughing it out' at 80% effectiveness whose presence serves to lose games b/c they are hurt.  If the Hughes thing is a trend, and he's cutting himself out of every other game, there's an issue.  But he's done this once.  I'm inclined, at this point at least, to trust him. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Maybe, but it always sounds to me that Bert's frustration has been masked, but is only held down by about an inch of self control and he's no more than a 12 oz beer away from having a full on cuss filled outburst on air.

 

And man, that would be awesome.

 

I really want to see that. 

[ashbury]

That's the problem with the system.

Which system? Free enterprise? I'm hardly an apologist for the ills of our market economy, but this doesn't rank very high among them. There's plenty of checks and balances on sports reporting by the press.

 

Who should the announcers answer to instead of the team? MLB itself? That's simply a different conflict of interest. The broadcast company? They have as much incentive to sugarcoat as the team does.

[Badsmerf]

I don't understand the hate for dickbert. They are great commentators. Listen to other broadcasts sometime, makes you want to shoot the tv. I can't stand listening to some other teams ( white Sox).

Call it sugar coating, homerism, whatever. I call it being an employee. Just because they don't bitch and criticize the whole night they are homers? Seriously. If they wanted to, it would be 3 hours if complaining. Frankly i get enough complaining from my 7 year old girl and wife.

They have a hard job. Not only have the twins been one of (maybe the?) worst teams in MLB the last 5 years, but were mediocre the previous ten (blyleven used to throw out grievances about pitch counts and other philosophy disagreements).

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't understand the hate for dickbert. They are great commentators. Listen to other broadcasts sometime, makes you want to shoot the tv. I can't stand listening to some other teams ( white Sox).

Call it sugar coating, homerism, whatever. I call it being an employee. Just because they don't bitch and criticize the whole night they are homers? Seriously. If they wanted to, it would be 3 hours if complaining. Frankly i get enough complaining from my 7 year old girl and wife.

They have a hard job. Not only have the twins been one of (maybe the?) worst teams in MLB the last 5 years, but were mediocre the previous ten (blyleven used to throw out grievances about pitch counts and other philosophy disagreements).

I understand that, but here is my main issue with it.

 

Nothing will change until the club stops making money.

The club will never stop making money as long as the mainstream, casual fan has hope.

The broadcasters can polish a turd and present it convincingly to a casual fan.

I talk to people every day who, based on last year and comments from the team, think we can still turn this around.

It's propaganda, pure and simple!

 

That said, will it ever change? Probably not.

This isn't a problem in the NFL, but network broadcasts of every game obviously won't work in baseball, with 15 games every day.

[Teflon]

This is one of the things that's frustrating about the MLB.TV streaming package blacking out live feeds for in-market games since you could otherwise choose to play only the ambient ballpark noise or the opposing team's radio or TV tracks to overlay the game feed.  

[Champuckett]

To the anonymous player that was angry about Bremer commenting on him during the broadcast, I say "too bad".

 

There is nothing about the play we have seen from the majority of the players this season that should protect you from criticism.  If you don't want to be criticized, then man up, play good fundamental baseball, and don't get sidetracked with what people say about you.  Focus that energy on being a better player.

 

Team record and team stats prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the team is playing lousy this season.  I'm waiting to see something contrary to this.

 

Dick and Bert are as fair weather as they come, they are not eager to call things out, especially Bremer, but the poor play and team chemistry has forced their hand and the hand of many fans to have no option other than criticizing the situation until we see something change.

[Vanimal46]

DickNBert (and the radio guys) are Minnesota Twins employees.

 

First amendment bought off.

 

That's the problem with the system. Hope next CBA that broadcasters are not employed by the clubs.

 

Too much conflict of interest.

I thought Dick and Bert were employed by Fox Sports North, no?

 

I don't know how your proposal of having non-biased broadcasters will ever work. No matter if the network showing games is Fox Sports North, Victory Sports One, or Twins Daily Network. They have a business partnership with the team. Doesn't matter what business you're in, you're not going to rip a business partner or affiliation of your business.

[Badsmerf]

Who wants that? Honestly? With how bad this team has been, how many poor decisions they've made... I don't want to listen to that when i watch a game. I have twins daily for that. I try to even keep the negativity on here to a minimum. It's too easy to rip apart this team and organization.

 

They are apart of the twins media machine, always will be. If you want objective criticism read one of the many internet based outlets covering baseball.

[TheLeviathan]

My only complaint about dickbert is their outright rejection of anything in new-wave statistics.  I'm not real high on WAR but I understand how it can be valuable.  Provus is a really good announcer, I wish he had an equally good color guy working with him.

 

But I wish Dick or Bert were a little more progressive in their analysis.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Dick's approval of Twins dugout having words with Donaldson yesterday was out of place. The Twins are the worst team in baseball right now, they have no credibility to criticize another team. People who live in glass house shouldn't throw stones.

[TheLeviathan]

Donaldson did exactly what you should do - he punished them for being butthurt idiots in the first inning.  I'm a Twins fan, but I liked seeing that.  

[DocBauer]

I don't understand the hate for dickbert. They are great commentators. Listen to other broadcasts sometime, makes you want to shoot the tv. I can't stand listening to some other teams ( white Sox).

Call it sugar coating, homerism, whatever. I call it being an employee. Just because they don't bitch and criticize the whole night they are homers? Seriously. If they wanted to, it would be 3 hours if complaining. Frankly i get enough complaining from my 7 year old girl and wife.

They have a hard job. Not only have the twins been one of (maybe the?) worst teams in MLB the last 5 years, but were mediocre the previous ten (blyleven used to throw out grievances about pitch counts and other philosophy disagreements).

Sorry to those who disagree, but this spot on. These guys, despite being away from home a lot during the season...quality hotels and perks and quality salaries and watching baseball, for a livkng, have a sometimes tough job providing the viewer with their calls and analysis. They have to be accurate and real. Homers? Yeah, sometimes they probably are. But aren't they also broadcasters for the Twins? What are they supposed to do? Bash the mish-mash, underperforming team they see daily and tell the fans not to tune in?

[DocBauer]

And I'm sorry for those who don't like the radio team. Provus is solid, but he's no Carneall. IMO, he's no Gordon either. Despite a home spun attitude and a few missed calls late in his career, I really liked Gordon. He was engaging and real.

 

I love Dazzle as well. He's unpolished. What's wrong with that? He was rugged and unpolished as a player. He's not a mouthpiece. He's a bike riding, World Series winning former tough as nails former ML ballplayer. What do you really want for your radio color guy, someone who never played the game and went to journalism school?

 

If Gladden had been confronted by said ballplayer, he probably would have punched him in the mouth.

[glunn]

Here is an article that came out today about the unnamed player confronting Bremer::

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/a-twins-player-confronted-twins-play-by-play-man-dick-bremer-over-criticism

 

Here is an excerpt from the article:

 

"It's pretty stand-up of Bremer to refuse to name the player because whoever it was made a really bad decision. There is nothing to be gained from asking a broadcaster to be more positive about the worst team in the AL, possibly the majors. Bremer's job is to call the game and the players' jobs are to play the game. Worrying about what a broadcaster is saying seems a sign of mental weakness. There are so many other things that should be of greater concern right now for the Twins, that's for sure."

[DaveW]

And I'm sorry for those who don't like the radio team. Provus is solid, but he's no Carneall. IMO, he's no Gordon either. Despite a home spun attitude and a few missed calls late in his career, I really liked Gordon. He was engaging and real.

 

I love Dazzle as well. He's unpolished. What's wrong with that? He was rugged and unpolished as a player. He's not a mouthpiece. He's a bike riding, World Series winning former tough as nails former ML ballplayer. What do you really want for your radio color guy, someone who never played the game and went to journalism school?

 

If Gladden had been confronted by said ballplayer, he probably would have punched him in the mouth.

I like Provus and Gladden quite a bit personally. It's not easy to fill the shoes of all time greats like Carnel and to a lesser extent Gordon. Both Dazzle and Cory do well IMO.