Article: Line Of Succession

[Vanimal46]

 

I wouldn't want the owners to be like Jerry Jones either. I mean, I have a job and I know that it sucks to be micro managed. Too much involvement hurts output. But I wouldn't expect to be completely unaccountable to my boss either. I know I wouldn't do my best work if that were the case. Neither extreme is desirable.

That's a good point too.  There needs to be some middle ground between the Pohlad's who don't hold upper management accountable for on-field failures -- and Jerry Jones who probably dictates when you're allowed to use the restroom, as well as fire you if you don't have the same opinion as him.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Vanimal46

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Well, can we agree that whomever said "I know he has 2 years left on his deal, and I know he's never actually been good before this year, and I know he tinkers with his stuff all the time.....but we should extend Hughes".....that guy should not be in the FO anymore?

He really should be selling tickets. 

[USAFChief]

Well, can we agree that whomever said "I know he has 2 years left on his deal, and I know he's never actually been good before this year, and I know he tinkers with his stuff all the time.....but we should extend Hughes".....that guy should not be in the FO anymore?

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16336-article-twins-extend-phil-hughes/?hl=%2Btwins+%2Bextend+%2Bhughes

 

Here's the thread accompanying the announcement.

 

Short synopsis: near universal approval from TD posters. Glowing praise, even.

[Hrbowski]

If you go outside of the organization you have got to hire Dan Kantrovitz, IMO.

[tobi0040]

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16336-article-twins-extend-phil-hughes/?hl=%2Btwins+%2Bextend+%2Bhughes

 

Here's the thread accompanying the announcement.

 

Short synopsis: near universal approval from TD posters. Glowing praise, even.

But the biggest issue. He has dropped 3 mph of velo and throws the 89 mph heater 75 percent of the time.

 

The only option is the pen so he can regain the velocity. But the Twins don't understand sunk costs so his salary locks him into 180 innings a year with a terrible ERA. We compound problems with incompetence

Edited May 11, 2016 by tobi0040

[Mike Sixel]

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16336-article-twins-extend-phil-hughes/?hl=%2Btwins+%2Bextend+%2Bhughes

Here's the thread accompanying the announcement.

Short synopsis: near universal approval from TD posters. Glowing praise, even.

 

Damnit. That's why I shouldn't type stuff on the tubes of internetedness......and, I guess, I will never be in the FO now.

[ashbury]

To be quite honest, I am 50/50 as to whether this article and comment represent actual opinions or intentional red meat for frustrated fans.

Contempt for opinions other than one's own is red meat of a different type.

[DaveW]

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16336-article-twins-extend-phil-hughes/?hl=%2Btwins+%2Bextend+%2Bhughes

Here's the thread accompanying the announcement.

Short synopsis: near universal approval from TD posters. Glowing praise, even.

Here was what I said:

 

Coming into the offseason this was my personal top choice on what to do. Very very team friendly. We could be looking back in a few years as it being an absolute steal.

 

 

DOH! At this stage, looking back, it's not a terrible deal assuming that Hughes can eventually get back to being a 4.00 ERA type guy. However, he has certainly fallen off a cliff and things are concerning now. Also I think we were all pumped because Hughes was the first FA signing we had had in quite a while that was "working out"

 

The Nolasco deal, Suzuki deal, Lack of Catching Depth, Lack of CF planning, lack of signing an actual front of rotation type and lack of BP planning are more damning IMO anyways.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by DaveW

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I have a hard time accepting that the best candidate for this job -- by all accounts *the* dream job for hundreds of the best baseball minds across the country -- is currently on the Twins' staff.

its not about making the hire that you want. It's about the hire that Pohlad wants. The MO for the entire Twins organization since the Pohlads purchased it has been the comfortable hire. Almost every single notable hire has been of a person who in some way worked themselves up from a lower rung in the organization. Lots of companies work this way

 

Other than Neil Allen, I can't think of another outsider who's been hired to the FO or coaching staff. And NA hasn't exactly looked stellar so far

Edited May 12, 2016 by Sconnie

[Mr. Brooks]

its not about making the hire that you want. It's about the hire that Pohlad wants. The MO for the entire Twins organization since the Pohlads purchased it has been the comfortable hire. Almost every single notable hire has been of a person who in some way worked themselves up from a lower rung in the organization. Lots of companies work this way

 

Other than Neil Allen, I can't think of another outsider who's been hired to the FO or coaching staff. And NA hasn't exactly looked stellar so far

How many companies would do that if their product had turned into an utter disaster?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How many companies would do that if their product had turned into an utter disaster?

it depends on what you think the cause and solution are the problem... But lots of them. I'm not saying it's the right thing, I'm saying it's the most likely scenario that Pohlad repeats everything he's done in the past because that's what his dad did too. He obviously doesn't doubt his ability to identify and hire the best talent, so why would he change course now? The goal isn't to win world series' it's to make money that has been very successful under Ryan

[Thrylos]

 

How many companies would do that if their product had turned into an utter disaster?

 

Here is the thing (and part of the problem) : 

 

Their product has not turned into an utter disaster.  I bet the Twins made record $ in 2015.  Regardless of the quality of the product (which is an utter disaster.)  The problem is that people are willing to and pay for this.  McDonald's makes a profit, so does Walmart.   If people are willing to pay for the stuff they sell, they will continue to make $.  And as long as there are Twins' apologists around who are happy with mediocrity, and are vocal about it, people will pay to watch it. 

 

McDonalds and Walmart are not going out of business any time soon...  

 

 

[DocBauer]

You have to bring someone who can really go though each one of them and figure out who is worthwhile to keep. And they better do it soon, so he sees them in action. Some people might be good, but they are in the wrong role. Some people might have great ideas but have been stifled by the higher ups.

 

One needs to figure that stuff out, but anyone who has been in the organization in a senior position has to go...

I agree with the first part of the sentiment, but not the second portion.

 

I absolutely agree that it is time, or will email time, to bring in new blood and new ideas. The Target corporation example is a great one. After a time, not necessarily through the fault of anyone, ideas and approachespecially become stale. Much like with the manager or head coach of any pro franchise, no matter how successful, eventually ideas become outmoded and voices become more difficult to listen to. Just as players themselves need to be replaced at times, so do coaches or FO personnel. Back in the day, the previously mentioned Andy McPhail was a tremendous example of this for the Twins. So I agree with new blood. I don't know, necessarily, if that is in the GM spot or president of operations. And I also agree with said new blood making various decisions as to who stays and who goes, who fits, and who doesnt.

 

But, IMO, it's overreaction to call for a complete house cleaning just for the sake thereof. St Peter and Antony are prime examples. I've never seen the ad with the cancer patient, and I strongly disagreed with his comments in regard to the 25th man on the roster comment, as well as his "the Twins Way was a media creation" comments. Both were limited in thought and rather assanine, I thought. All roster spots are important, and the proverbial "Twins Way" was about smart and well-rounded baseball. But I can't look at past successes and Target Field and say he needs to automatically go. Same with Antony. He seems respected and knowledgeable in his daily functiomns, but that doesn't mean he should be a strong GM. He was acting GM previously for a few months. A poor performing team at that time shouldn't define whether or not he's a capable assistant.

 

It seems our past few drafts have brought high quality. There has been a noticeable shift in the organization in a more power pitching approach. The last couple of seasons, most of the Twins milb clubs have ranked near the top of their respective divisions in quality starts, SO's, etc. Just because the vast majority of the Twins top 30-ish prospects haven't reached the majors yet shouldn't be an indictment to the scouting department or those running the milb show.

 

We've all been impatient and extremely eager to see the kids reach the Show. Some of them have, some have had cups of coffee, some are getting really close to debuting or "sticking", some appear ready or close to AAA and AA advancement. We can argue about rate of promotion, or some sitting on the Twins bench, and with sound reasoning, but to just "wish" them al, to the ML at a super quick pace is not practical.

 

In short, new blood is a definate, but cleaning house for the sake of doing so is baby out with the bathwater IMO.

Edited May 12, 2016 by DocBauer

[Mr. Brooks]

Here is the thing (and part of the problem) :

 

Their product has not turned into an utter disaster. I bet the Twins made record $ in 2015. Regardless of the quality of the product (which is an utter disaster.) The problem is that people are willing to and pay for this. McDonald's makes a profit, so does Walmart. If people are willing to pay for the stuff they sell, they will continue to make $. And as long as there are Twins' apologists around who are happy with mediocrity, and are vocal about it, people will pay to watch it.

 

McDonalds and Walmart are not going out of business any time soon...

The Twins won't continue to make money with this product though.

There is a difference between the Twins, and Walmart or McDonalds.

 

Walmart and McDonalds customer base is getting exactly what they want and expect. They want a subpar, but cheap and convenient product. They don't go into McDonalds expecting them to turn it around any day now and serve a 5 star menu.

I think most Twins fans expect an eventual return to a competitive product.

And, I think when year 6 turns into year 9, then year 13, Target Field will turn into a ghost town.

[Thrylos]

 

I think most Twins fans expect an eventual return to a competitive product.
 

 

 

I think that you just made my point, unless you are talking about 1991.

 

The Twins were not competitive in the Ryan era.  Winning bad divisions and going belly up in the post-season is not competitive.  When the divisions got stronger, their belly up time got earlier

 

The 2000's Twins were like a special McDonalds thing.  McRib.  There you go

Edited May 12, 2016 by Thrylos

[DocBauer]

I think the Cubs are demonstrating how you have to have a really specific plan for what you like and what you don't and build with that.  I think Terry comes from an era where you just assembled assets and tried to fit them as you go.

 

Epstien has brilliantly targeted hitters with high picks and high value trades because he knows that scouting their future impact is generally more reliable.  (Plus they are less likely to have injury issues and longer careers) He's supplemented the pitching staff with buy-low moves and free agent dollars.  

 

That basic framework is so easy to replicate.  Or, hell, do something else smart for all I care - but time for a total change in organizational framework.  Gut the whole front office.

I really like this. It's a frustrated, but really smart post.

 

I suppose it's easy to say the smart plans are the ones that work. But there is truth as well as fiction involved. Having a plan and following it is great, and will hopefully pay off in the long run. Having no plan almost guarantees no success. But not every plan works for every team, to state the obvious. Some teams simply have more money to work with and can augment their rosters with big FA signings, extensions, taking on trade dollars, etc. Much like the Cubs example mentioned here, or the Yankees, who actually achieved success when they finally kept and promoted their own and supplemented with big paydays. (Sort of like the Cubs example)

 

I am not defending Ryan, though at times I believe I see where he is going and what plan he has, but I feel that if he is guilty of anything, it's not making a strong enough commitment in any one direction. Given a chance to spend real money, he's made unprecedented moves in the FA pool to augment the team, try to keep them winning, to some degree, rather than embrace all out "rebuild", a word and option we know he dislikes. Part of me gets that, understands it, and even appreciates it as a fan.

 

But even as you try to play the FA game, to keep your head above water, and put a better product on the field while waiting for the youngsters to come up, you also can't ignore short comings on the roster, and gamble that these players will leapfrog AAA and leap directly to the majors to provide a boost. CF for three years and the bullpen for two are prime examples. Nolasco didn't really work out. It happens. Santana and Hughes weren't bad signings, nor was Suzuki. But extending Hughes and Suzuki were big mistakes. Not adding an OF or two to bridge the gap, or adding to the bullpen with pieces that wouldn't break you, and could maybe later be traded, we're also big mistakes.

 

I think he's allowed himself to be caught between trying to be competitive and the dreaded "R" word, and now the Twins are flailing and failing this season somewhere in between.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think that you just made my point, unless you are talking about 1991.

 

The Twins were not competitive in the Ryan era. Winning bad divisions and going belly up in the post-season is not competitive. When the divisions got stronger, their belly up time got earlier

 

The 2000's Twins were like a special McDonalds thing. McRib. There you go

To the casual fan, which is the bulk of the financial base, we were competitive.

[Deduno Abides]

Seth, can you list the accomplishments of Antony, Steil and Goin? They all seem pretty mediocre, at best.

 

Antony: bad player selection.

Steil: this is the guy that runs the minor league system with supposedly one of the best talent pools, but hasn't produced a bond fide major league player out of it.

Goin: clever communicator for sure and it's nice that he comes on TD every now and then, but analytical accomplishments are unknown.

[Jgcarew]

There's a difference between responding and reacting; patience and impulse; caring and apathy; vitameatavegamin and PEDs

The Cubs in recent years have hired 2 of the best leaders available.

The Astros' went a whole new way a few years ago.

The twins extended Hughes and Suzuki

[theJemmer]

How about bringing one of us home? Walt Jocketty

[Thrylos]

 

To the casual fan, which is the bulk of the financial base, we were competitive.

 

Again, you are making my point.   The 2000s were not McDonalds and Walmart, it was Chipotle and Kohls.   As long as the causal fan defines excellence as that, the Twins will be making $.

[Mr. Brooks]

Again, you are making my point. The 2000s were not McDonalds and Walmart, it was Chipotle and Kohls. As long as the causal fan defines excellence as that, the Twins will be making $.

Not if they don't make changes.

The current regime will NEVER return to even an illusion of success.

6 awful years will turn into 9, which will turn into 15.

The game has passed these guys by, and they have no idea what they are doing.

[KGB]

 

I think he's allowed himself to be caught between trying to be competitive and the dreaded "R" word, and now the Twins are flailing and failing this season somewhere in between.

I agree, the main problem is that they never went into a total rebuild.  Two years ago when the should have been in the rebuild mode, they were signing long term deal with FA pitchers over the age of 30 and signing Kendrys Morales because they thought they could contend. 

 

I think ownership understands that contending would bring in a million more in attendance and probably $50-$100 in additional revenue.  So I think they would be willing to add payroll, but that really not what Ryan does well.  We are never going to be at the Cubs payroll level, but I think they would add payroll.

 

The difficult decision they need to make is this now a total rebuild.  Should they trade veterans, cut back salaries and go with the young players.  Then we'll hear more complaining about ownership not spending money but it might be the smart move.  See what the young players can actually do, then start supplementing that with FA as needed.

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

Yeah.  Buy one get 3 free... 

 

So, basically change the name of the Twins Front Office to the Twins Blue-Light Special Office!

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by HitInAPinch

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Same with Antony. He seems respected and knowledgeable in his daily functiomns, but that doesn't mean he should be a strong GM. He was acting GM previously for a few months. A poor performing team at that time shouldn't define whether or not he's a capable assistant.

There's more to Antony's public record than his brief stint as acting GM.  He was also on record in 2010 as believing RBIs were more predictive than slugging percentage.  This was after 12 years as our director of baseball operations, and 3 years as our assistant GM.

 

Now, if it was some baseball lifer who made that statement, who had a track record of solid moves like TR, I'd give him some benefit of the doubt.  But as assistant GM under Bill Smith, Antony probably deserves some blame for our poor higher-level moves from 2007-2011 (MLB moves like Delmon, the second Hardy trade, etc. were almost certainly made at the top rather than by our lower level scouts and directors).

 

I am sure he's a great guy, well respected, and can do a job in the front office just fine -- but he is almost certainly not the guy you want heading the baseball side of the organization.

Edited May 12, 2016 by spycake

[Mike Sixel]

Antony also had the famous interview where he admitted knowing almost nothing about "advanced" stats.....IIRC

[Mr. Brooks]

Antony also had the famous interview where he admitted knowing almost nothing about "advanced" stats.....IIRC

Is that the one where he thought FIP was first innings pitched?

[DaveW]

Again, you are making my point. The 2000s were not McDonalds and Walmart, it was Chipotle and Kohls. As long as the causal fan defines excellence as that, the Twins will be making $.

watching this team gives me the same feeling as eating chipotle....

[DaveW]

Antony also had the famous interview where he admitted knowing almost nothing about "advanced" stats.....IIRC

Antony really has no business being anywhere near any important "baseball" decisions, he might be more to blame than Ryan to be honest. (Who shoulders his fair share of the blame no doubt)

 

I wonder how things may have went differently if they gave Smith a few more seasons, the Young trade etc didn't work out, but at least he had the guts to make some aggressive moves. I doubt he would have signed/resigned Suzuki and signed Nolasco and Santana for starters.

[tobi0040]

In reading through the comments, factual stories, etc.  It is difficult to conclude that this regime has any shot at putting together a sustained run at a winning team.

 

These guys are plugging away at their typewriters while the competition is letting the Watson crunch numbers.